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West Country 'Jumbo' Trains

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Masbroughlad

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Can anybody remember/supply information and/or photographs of 'Jumbo Trains' which ran to the south west in the 80s?

I remember double head 31/4s and long rakes of air con mk2s but were they NE-SW cross country trains or London Paddington to SW services? How many coaches did they pull?

Any info appreciated. Thanks.
 
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455driver

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The 31/4s were used on NE-SW services but were not very common on them, the jumbo trains were normally class 50 hauled and could be up to 14 carriages long. If a 47 was used then the load had to be reduced.
 

MichaelAMW

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Ah, this takes me back to my undergraduate days in Exeter! In the '85 - '86 timetable (and others) there were trains at 09.40 and 13.40 from Paddington to Penzance arr 15.40 and 20.01, returning at 09.32 and 16,17, arriving 15.37 and 22.09. They had a very good restaurant service, so the 09.40 did breakfast and lunch, and its return at 16.17 afternoon tea and dinner - one catering crew all the way there and back, who worked one day on, one day off.

As 455D says, could be up to 14 coaches but the relatively interesting thing was that there was in effect a portion of about 5 coaches that was sometimes detached/attached at Plymouth. So, on summer weekdays, the 09.40 was long to Plymouth and short to Penzance; its return at 16.17 was short all the way. The 13.40 was usually short all the way down while its return, the 09.32 the following day, was long. When the 09.32 from Penzance arrived at Paddington the portion was detached and the main part of the train formed the 16.25 to Cheltenham and return the following morning at 08.30, after which it could go back down west on the 13.40. Since neither of the up trains arrived in London until both the down ones had gone, there must have been a third set of "main" coaches as well: I never noticed these on any other workings so I suspect these gave the breathing space for maintenance. The 13.40 called at Keyham, Saltash, St Germans and Menheniot, so was a little long for the platforms there...

More interesting was that the portions also formed the seating portion of the Paddington - Penzance & return sleeper. The portion that was dropped off the 0940 at Plymouth later worked forward as the 16.35 all stations Plymouth - Penzance and then came up on the sleeper. The portion that had come up from Penzance on the 09.32 in the morning, once separated from the main bit that was off to Cheltenham, went down to Penzance on the sleeper. Obviously that evened out as it was just a swap of the two portions between London and Penzance. On a Friday the 09.40 ran through to Penzance as a long train, i.e. kept the portion beyond Plymouth; the 16.35 Plymouth - Penzance was covered by the FO Brighton - Penzance. On summer Saturdays the trains were long throughout in both directions. I presume that there was also a third "portion" that allowed time for maintenance - these were worked fairly hard as they were on both the day and the night trains, the latter still running every night of the week at the time.

Based on the timetable, rather than my knowledge from the time, they also ran on Sundays: 11.45 and 18.45 from London; 13.10 and 18.40 from Penzance. There were tweaks at other times too, e.g. the 13.40 from London including a portion on a busy Friday, in which case there would have been some knock-on alterations in order to keep the coaches, particularly the portions, in the right places. (E.g., as a complete guess, for this example one of the down trains on the Sunday would go short and then come back long with the extra portion that had found its way to Penzance.)
 

Taunton

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Ah, this takes me back to my undergraduate days in Exeter!
Interesting. Were you ever involved with the special charters that the University Railway Club used to do to/from Paddington at the start/end of each academic term?
 

MichaelAMW

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Interesting. Were you ever involved with the special charters that the University Railway Club used to do to/from Paddington at the start/end of each academic term?

Slightly before my time although I did know someone who remembered this happening. Quite enterprising, really.
 

CC 72100

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Interesting. Were you ever involved with the special charters that the University Railway Club used to do to/from Paddington at the start/end of each academic term?

I can confirm that this particular society no longer exists :cry: ;)
 

nw1

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Ah, this takes me back to my undergraduate days in Exeter! In the '85 - '86 timetable (and others) there were trains at 09.40 and 13.40 from Paddington to Penzance arr 15.40 and 20.01, returning at 09.32 and 16,17, arriving 15.37 and 22.09. They had a very good restaurant service, so the 09.40 did breakfast and lunch, and its return at 16.17 afternoon tea and dinner - one catering crew all the way there and back, who worked one day on, one day off.

I remember these from the 1984/85 timetable at Reading, the down trains left just after 1000 and 1400. They were 50 hauled - in addition to these there were various summer Saturday only services which were also largely 50 hauled with MkI coaches.

Incidentally I'm fairly sure the 1983/84 timetable was solid HSTs on the regular hourly Plymouth/Penzance service - which suggests in 1984/85 these two (down) trains went over to loco-hauled, presumably for extra capacity?
 

MichaelAMW

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I remember these from the 1984/85 timetable at Reading, the down trains left just after 1000 and 1400. They were 50 hauled - in addition to these there were various summer Saturday only services which were also largely 50 hauled with MkI coaches.

Incidentally I'm fairly sure the 1983/84 timetable was solid HSTs on the regular hourly Plymouth/Penzance service - which suggests in 1984/85 these two (down) trains went over to loco-hauled, presumably for extra capacity?

That (2nd pragraph) is precisely my own memory of the situation; I can remember the advent and advertising of the "Jumbo" trains during my first year and we had a marvellous lunch-on-the-train trip, Exeter-Penzance, on the 09.40 the first Saturday of the new timetable. Without needing to rely on me, the 83/84 timetable was during the era when [125] appeared at the top of the column for an HST-worked service. Your assertion is confirmed, although there was a dated May-Sep loco from Paddington to Penzance at 10.20 and there were FO loco-hauled services, all year round, from Paddington at 13.13,15.13, 17.47 and 18.47. Of faint interest is the last train to the West Country train on Saturday night, which called Reading, Newbury, Westbury, Castle Cary, Exeter Central, Exeter St Davids. A favourite evening out was some beers in Castle Cary and return on this - to return to the theme of the thread, the up working was the train that became the second up "Jumbo" the following year. Of perhaps even fainter interest, the first West Country train from Paddington on a summer that called at Reading to set down wasn't until 18.45.

Those summer-Saturday trains used the rakes of MKI coaches that did the various semi-fast services peak services out of Paddington to Twyford/Oxford/Newbury etc.
 

Taunton

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A little memory quiz.

Anyone remember a whole train of restaurant cars on this route?!!
 

30907

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Finished before I ever got West of Bristol! What year did it last run?
 

30907

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My guess too. Summer 63 TT is considerably slimmed down compared with 1959, same was true on SR as there had been a cull of older stock.
 

Taunton

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The "whole train of restaurant cars" was actually an empty stock working. It ran down from Old Oak Common on summer Fridays to Penzance, with about 10 or so restaurant cars which were to be attached, one each, to Saturday extra services and reliefs working back from there. They were all older ex-GWR vehicles. I believe the catering crews all went down with it, they probably all congregated in one car. It was commonly hauled by a 10xx County loco, a class which surprisingly were somewhat rare going through Taunton - they weren't that welcome on the steep banks west of there compared to the 4-cylinder locos.

It's extraordinary to consider the efforts they went to in providing extra restaurant car facilities, both vehicles and staff, on so many Saturday extra services.

I suppose another service on the line with restaurant service in every vehicle was the "Ocean Liner Specials", using the old GWR Ocean Saloons. I never saw one going down through Taunton, but an up service came through occasionally around lunchtime, generally following one block behind the Up Cornish Riviera, in the days when that too was non-stop through Taunton, so there were two such services within a few minutes. You got to know it was coming when all the Up Fast distants came off again just a few minutes after the "Rivvy" had passed. I think the last liner called at Plymouth in 1962, and that was the end of the vehicles. It was steam hauled to the end, always an immaculately-polished Castle (the cleanest loco of the week), only about five saloons by this time, and just a handful of passengers visible in each.
 
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