I have been wondering if this might just be the start of WCRC woes. I mean if the people who they were supposed to be running tours or other services for decide to take court action to recover their losses this could get very expensive. Even if they are permitted back onto NR metals they could steal have a legal cloud hanging over them.
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West Coast Railways Suspended (now reinstated)
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I have been wondering if this might just be the start of WCRC woes. I mean if the people who they were supposed to be running tours or other services for decide to take court action to recover their losses this could get very expensive. Even if they are permitted back onto NR metals they could steal have a legal cloud hanging over them.
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RailUK Forums
Well, they do have a decent amount of cash (just over £600K) so they're in good shape, as long as it can be sorted out soon (and the creditors don't get ^twitchy^). Reference: http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03066109/WEST-COAST-RAILWAY-COMPANY-LTD
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That's as maybe, but if the worst happens it might be difficult to get money (or at least claim it quickly) unless WCRC (or whoever has to sort it out) has the cash (including bank funds) on hand to pay.
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martynbristow
Member
Thats not much money at all!
If they have to pay severance to staff, fuel, costs to NR it'll eat it in seconds.
Compare it to DRS and DBS who each have 2Million in cash! Businesses rely on turnover to keep going.
Anyway reading there accounts in detail indicate that they have a turnover of 12m and a cost of turnover of ~10m which ends up as .2m when you remove other costs.
60k is nothing compared to this. It will come down to the legal arrangements in place.
But heres a question. Do WCR actually employ anyone, they apparently didn't pay anyone, is everyone paid through a parent company or are they self employed.
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They may only have £600k in cash but they do have a lot in assets...
martynbristow
Member
They don't actually!
Read the accounts and its 2m.
Which will get flogged quickly for well less than that if they get administration.
What you maybe thinking of is the parents companies assets
But they are nicely protectedtheblackwatch
Established Member
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I wouldn't be too sure about that...
Monty
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They own a fair few diesel locos and rolling stock that would fetch a fair penny if they ended up owning anything to debtors. Most of their steam locos however I think are owned by private individuals?
David Smith, who owns WCR, owns a few himself
martynbristow
Member
But the point is they aren't owned by WCR.
And David Smith doesn't own WCR himself either. His companies own it
But the point is they aren't owned by WCR.
And David Smith doesn't own WCR himself either. His companies own it
Fair point!
http://www.railmagazine.com/news/ne...es-next-step-to-revoke-wcr-safety-certificate
Don't know if this has been linked to but saw it on Twitter.
Don't know if this has been linked to but saw it on Twitter.
Jesus !
Did I read that right ? They are going to consult with stakeholders first !! If they are not meeting the required standard and pose a significant risk and they are consulting stakeholders first. Holy cow
Can someone with much much more knowledge than me please reassure me that there is some kind of legal process rather than it being a financial decision than one based on safety. Why can't they pull the certification and then make them re apply after they meet the required standard.
Thanks in advance.
Did I read that right ? They are going to consult with stakeholders first !! If they are not meeting the required standard and pose a significant risk and they are consulting stakeholders first. Holy cow
Can someone with much much more knowledge than me please reassure me that there is some kind of legal process rather than it being a financial decision than one based on safety. Why can't they pull the certification and then make them re apply after they meet the required standard.
Thanks in advance.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Jesus !
Did I read that right ? They are going to consult with stakeholders first !! If they are not meeting the required standard and pose a significant risk and they are consulting stakeholders first. Holy cow
Can someone with much much more knowledge than me please reassure me that there is some kind of legal process rather than it being a financial decision than one based on safety. Why can't they pull the certification and then make them re apply after they meet the required standard.
Thanks in advance.
It is part of the formal legal process. I just cant lay my hand on the right regualtion at present
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Jesus !
Did I read that right ? They are going to consult with stakeholders first !! If they are not meeting the required standard and pose a significant risk and they are consulting stakeholders first. Holy cow
Can someone with much much more knowledge than me please reassure me that there is some kind of legal process rather than it being a financial decision than one based on safety. Why can't they pull the certification and then make them re apply after they meet the required standard.
Thanks in advance.
Confusion between a shareholder and a stakeholder?
Who will buy this collateral? I think they are doomed
martynbristow
Member
Carriages any preserved railway I'm sure will want to get there hands on them OR more likely the new operator of WCR. Realistically WCR will get split up and reformed potentially the Scottish bits going to Abellio.
It would seem that West Coast themselves don't see themselves as doomed as they have made a new track access application for the Jacobite only this week: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse... Jacobite - Section 18 - Closes 29 April 2015
martynbristow
Member
That particular consultation was from Network Rail to the ORR. WCR will have submitted that earlier. It relates the the Jacobite more that WCR. The Jacobite can always be run by somebody else.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
you might well find that WCRC itself own few assets............
martynbristow
Member
As posted above there last accounts state 60k capital and 2m in assets. Everything else is leased from the parent companies and owners
ilkestonian
Member
Stakeholders include other FOCs and TOCs with whom WCRC "come into contact", apparently.
Not the most appropriate of terms in the context of what might have happened...
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Jesus !
Did I read that right ? They are going to consult with stakeholders first !! If they are not meeting the required standard and pose a significant risk and they are consulting stakeholders first. Holy cow
Can someone with much much more knowledge than me please reassure me that there is some kind of legal process rather than it being a financial decision than one based on safety. Why can't they pull the certification and then make them re apply after they meet the required standard.
Thanks in advance.
I imagine ORR would have the power to suspend an operator without notice (and without consulting stakeholders first) if they had evidence of serious wrongdoing. However there is no need to do so in this case because NR has suspended WCR's track access so they are unable to run any trains on the network until at least the middle of May.
In this case I Network Rail will be prominent amongst the stakeholders to be consulted.
The application was signed by WCRC on 20 April 2015 http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...loses 29 april 2015/the jacobite - form p.pdf
DarloRich
Veteran Member
yes but not what the assets are.
Cheers. If you do find it I'd appreciate it. Or if you can point me int he right direction I can use that well known search engine. I just have no idea what to search for :/
I know. My concern is that they would consult first. If its unsafe then act first then consult later.
Nope
Good point.
My thanks gents.
JimboBourne
New Member
Okay experts, what do you think ?
As a humble ignorant consumer, I booked two tickets on the Jacobite for 11th May - their first trip of the season. This was just before the WCR announcement. Since then, I''ve been trying to find out what the motive power for the day will be. WCR are 'awaiting confirmation'.
So.......... Do I cancel and use the money to book on the much cheaper scheduled service ? Do I wait and see ? What is the likelihood of steam traction being available on the 11th; this being three days before any possibility of the ban being lifted ?.
All thoughts gratefully received.
As a humble ignorant consumer, I booked two tickets on the Jacobite for 11th May - their first trip of the season. This was just before the WCR announcement. Since then, I''ve been trying to find out what the motive power for the day will be. WCR are 'awaiting confirmation'.
So.......... Do I cancel and use the money to book on the much cheaper scheduled service ? Do I wait and see ? What is the likelihood of steam traction being available on the 11th; this being three days before any possibility of the ban being lifted ?.
All thoughts gratefully received.
Statto
Established Member
I'd be cancelling the booking if you can, WCRC won't be reinstated until 15th May at the earliest, & that's if they're going to be reinstated
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