West Coast freight paths vs passenger paths. How can things be improved?

[Agent_Squash]

It's not once a day. Motherwell is the only station apart from Glasgow Central in the whole of the west of Scotland that has fast trains to England. It saves quite substantial time being able to connect at or railhead to Motherwell than going via Glasgow Central, so improving the service between the service between Motherwell and England has long been an important goal. There used to be multiple trains that stopped there instead of Lancaster, and the 1030 Down didn't used to call at Lancaster either. Same on Sundays. Nearly all have been ironed out.

There’s not really an excuse for any service to be skipping Lancaster these days.

Motherwell has connections to Glasgow easily - either it should be clockface to England, or get nothing at all.

More people probably use the connection that is broken from Oxenholme to Lancaster than the services from Motherwell anyway!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

How much would it cost to complete the autotransformer upgrade of the north WCML power supply, which was started a number of years ago then abandoned?

It is Euxton Jct to Catterall that needs doing iirc and from what I have seen.

 

[The Planner]

It is Euxton Jct to Catterall that needs doing iirc and from what I have seen.

Which is why a feeder is going in at Penwortham.

 

[Trainbike46]

You answered it yourself, the power supply is finite. I don't believe its proven that switching all freight to electric is doable.

In the immediate sense there is clearly power supply limitations

However, in the long term (which is what we are talking about when suggesting things like electrifying new routes), diesel use needs to go down, so that will involve moving more services to electric, and that will require power supply upgrades in some places.

 

[The Planner]

In the immediate sense there is clearly power supply limitations

However, in the long term (which is what we are talking about when suggesting things like electrifying new routes), diesel use needs to go down, so that will involve moving more services to electric, and that will require power supply upgrades in some places.

I don't disagree, it depends on whether they are affordable.

 

[Peter0124]

There’s not really an excuse for any service to be skipping Lancaster these days.

Motherwell has connections to Glasgow easily - either it should be clockface to England, or get nothing at all.

More people probably use the connection that is broken from Oxenholme to Lancaster than the services from Motherwell anyway!

Motherwell is very handy (sometimes). Serves the town and people from neighbouring areas like Wishaw, Hamilton, Bellshill, Coatbridge and saves them from doubling back into Glasgow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Motherwell is very handy (sometimes). Serves the town and people from neighbouring areas like Wishaw, Hamilton, Bellshill, Coatbridge and saves them from doubling back into Glasgow.

These "P&R" stations just outside cities are indeed very useful. Stockport, Runcorn, Watford Jn/Milton Keynes Central, Luton Airport Parkway etc, and of course for HS2 we have Manchester Airport and Birmingham Interchange, though sadly not a London one (Old Oak is too close in and won't have much if any parking). I guess the argument there would be to serve it with every train then pathing becomes less of an issue.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Which is why a feeder is going in at Penwortham.

Wow, I did not know that. Fantastic news. Makes sense as there used to be a CEGB coal fired power station there and although that is very long gone, all the National Grid Power lines are there with some extremely tall pylons to get over the Ribble (ships used to pass through there to the docks).

Is there any documentation etc. in the public domain by any chance?

 

[The Planner]

Wow, I did not know that. Fantastic news. Makes sense as there used to be a CEGB coal fired power station there and although that is very long gone, all the National Grid Power lines are there with some extremely tall pylons to get over the Ribble (ships used to pass through there to the docks).

Is there any documentation etc. in the public domain by any chance?

Not that I know of, still early days I think.

 

[30907]

That Stagecoach can justify a commercial fast 555 up the M6 from Lancaster in summer says that rail is getting it very wrong here. (The normal through 555 via the villages is very slow and is really just two separate bus routes stuck together). Only two quid at the moment too, though that's obviously not long term.

It partly says that WDM isn't a destination in its own right.

If the normal train service is running (important qualification), the connections at Oxenholme are now excellent every hour on weekdays, with the annoying exception of the 0930 OXN-WDM which has a 3min non-connection - Northern should really consider cutting Burneside and Staveley on that (or the return) to allow the connection to show.

 

[AndrewE]

It partly says that WDM isn't a destination in its own right.

If the normal train service is running (important qualification), the connections at Oxenholme are now excellent every hour on weekdays, with the annoying exception of the 0930 OXN-WDM which has a 3min non-connection - Northern should really consider cutting Burneside and Staveley on that (or the return) to allow the connection to show.

Oh no they're not! Maybe they are if you are on a Euston to Warrington non-stop service, but try looking at the 0727 off Crewe, or the 0707 and 0807 from Brum. All involve about 1-hr changes and all are classic trains for people from the N Midlands to use to get to the Lake District.

Timetable planning and specification should be done by people living as far from London as possible...

 

[30907]

Oh no they're not! Maybe they are if you are on a Euston to Warrington non-stop service, but try looking at the 0727 off Crewe, or the 0707 and 0807 from Brum. All involve about 1-hr changes and all are classic trains for people from the N Midlands to use to get to the Lake District.

Sorry, I was referring to the connections from Lancaster that the thread specifically raised. The 0707 Brum certainly should be able to connect into the 0930 that I mentioned upthread, and it would be possible to make the 0807 connect by holding the Northern train (ideally in the down loop, because you could then give the 0955 WDM-MIA a better path).

But maybe the answer is a half hourly service on the branch after all?

 

[rapmastaj]

A half hourly service would be great. It's difficult to maintain decent connections with several different trains simultaneously, when the branch only runs hourly.

Failing that, running through to at least Preston would be another solution.

 

[Starmill]

That Stagecoach can justify a commercial fast 555 up the M6 from Lancaster in summer says that rail is getting it very wrong here. (The normal through 555 via the villages is very slow and is really just two separate bus routes stuck together). Only two quid at the moment too, though that's obviously not long term.

It is wrong, but working up a decent solution involves first accepting the removal of the through trains from Manchester, and stakeholders won't wear that. So nothing will improve.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2023 ==

But maybe the answer is a half hourly service on the branch after all?

Desirable because of the flexibility and summer capacity it would offer, yes of course. But value for money? Another matter.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It partly says that WDM isn't a destination in its own right.

It is and it isn't, but it only is because of the railway (as a result of which hotels, restaurants etc have cropped up). It has a lot more of note than it used to. Bowness, Ambleside and Grasmere plus Great Langdale are the key destinations, really.

 

[a good off]

From a controller perspective I really miss pairs of 86s on the liners. You could send them in a tighter margin and they’d very rarely let us down. An absolute waste for them to be sat rotting at Crewe.

 

[AndrewE]

From a controller perspective I really miss pairs of 86s on the liners. You could send them in a tighter margin and they’d very rarely let us down. An absolute waste for them to be sat rotting at Crewe.

Unfortunately the diagram in post 391 on https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-93-tri-mode-loco.210779/page-14 doesn't show class 86s, let alone a pair of them.

I am still amazed that the freight companies are allowed to send 66s out on heavy freights over Shap and Beattock on what is really an express passenger line. Over 50mph they are hopeless - and I speak as someone who has been repeatedly delayed by them (almost) failing on freights in front of us!