West Coast franchise delayed to Jan 2013

[bengolding]

According to the Guardian, the Transport Secretary has decided to delay the start of the new West Coast franchise from April 2012 to Jan 2013:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/may/15/west-coast-sale-delayed

 

[MCR247]

Get in there! 10 extra months of Virgin

 

[ainsworth74]

Well that explains why the ITT that was I believe was due to be issued last week wasn't. I wonder how much extra in consultant's fees and so on this is going to cost us :roll:

 

[YorkshireBear]

but does this mean even longer before 11 car pendilinos?

 

[MCR247]

Oh, yes it does

 

[umontu]

390054 should be working not being trotted out every now and again.
Who wants to bet the others loose interest and Virgin is the only one left? Or am I being a conspiracy nut?

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Probably good news to be fair, although as umontu quite rightly pointed out it will probably leave the rest pulling out with Virgin being the only ones left.

Personally I would love to see Nederlandse Spoorwegen get the franchise eventually - the thought of a bright yellow Pendolino - ahhhh.

 

[All Line Rover]

As usual the DfT are changing their plans, causing delays and extra costs for everyone involved. That's their normal behaviour in my opinion.

Still, a few extra months of Virgin Trains is guaranteed, and I will be very happy if everyone else pulls out and only Virgin remains. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

[route:oxford]

If you had one of the largest events in the world happening in June 2012*, would you really want a new operator (and mix of liveries and uniforms) running on the WCML?

Better to throw an extra few months at it to keep things tidy.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Oh, yes it does

thats the only fly in the ointment for me. That capacity is needed. unless (which is of course highly possible) DFT Decide to give virgin the job of 11 car extention and commissioning of the new sets for completion by, say autumn 2012?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's good and bad in this.
I thought the draft WCML spec was very dull for a 15-year franchise, just adding a 10th path out of Euston, so maybe something more ambitious will emerge in the next consultation.
On the other hand, it will include the likely McNulty recommendations which will probably impose lower cost/greater return for the DfT on the operation.
It also means WC/EC/GW/GA will all be let at much the same time with similar terms.
If the spec changes, we can expect DB Arriva, in particular, to lobby for a rerun of the pre-qualification.

 

[Blindtraveler]

There's good and bad in this.
I thought the draft WCML spec was very dull for a 15-year franchise, just adding a 10th path out of Euston, so maybe something more ambitious will emerge in the next consultation.
On the other hand, it will include the likely McNulty recommendations which will probably impose lower cost/greater return for the DfT on the operation.
It also means WC/EC/GW/GA will all be let at much the same time with similar terms.
If the spec changes, we can expect DB Arriva, in particular, to lobby for a rerun of the pre-qualification.

if I was Ariva's director of rail, I'd be looking to use this extra time to kick XC into shape. There punctualitty is good, but things like wifi, train cleaning and yucky bog smells and there associated complaints could be addressed in time, giving them maybe (and sadly) a better chance.

 

[Geezertronic]

Still, a few extra months of Virgin Trains is guaranteed, and I will be very happy if everyone else pulls out and only Virgin remains. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

I'll echo that, but I hope that common sense allows the new 11 car 390s to be run as 11 car 390s and if any of the additional carriages turn up in the meantime than some/all of the 9 cars can be extended as required.

 

[driver9000]

390054 should be working not being trotted out every now and again.

390054 is due to be entering service as a 9 car set once all the boxes are ticked off for 11 car testing and commissioning as a replacement for 390033. It will be extended back to 11 cars once the other 11 car sets are delivered/extended.

 

[cj_1985]

does this mean that they are going to have to start the pre-qualification all over again...? :roll:

so with this extension (which we assume Virgin will continue to run) we are getting close to what Virgin wanted/offered the other year which would have delivered (ordered) the extra pendolino carraiges to bring all of them up to 11 cars...

iv seen the mention that one of the higher ups in the government or DfT saying that the ITT wasnt radical enough... so once again we are back to the DfT micro managing contracts rather than all the "let franchises be inovative" that was talked about last year when longer franchises were being discussed:roll:

 

[tbtc]

If you had one of the largest events in the world happening in June 2012*, would you really want a new operator (and mix of liveries and uniforms) running on the WCML?

Better to throw an extra few months at it to keep things tidy.

Firstly I don't think that a mix of staff uniforms is really going to make much difference to the Olympics

Secondly, we've known we would be hosting this daft event since 2005(?), so I'm not sure why it wasn't factored in to the WCML bid a few months ago (if indeed it makes any difference)

Thirdly, if the bids weren't good enough then why was a shortlist published recently?

Fourthly, the constant deferring of big decisions, putting stuff off for another few months, then another few months... it doesn't fill me with confidence in the new Government's approach to rail. They've been quite decisive in other areas of government, yet quite timid when it comes to rail

Fifthly (is that a word?), if they can just extend the Virgin contract beyond the Olympics for another nine months then why aren't they doing the same for NXEA? Why are we getting this daft short-term contract for the Great Eastern/Anglia franchise (when there's no such treatment of the WCML)?

Sixthly (am sure that's not a word) I wish I had the foresight to be a consultant - these guys must be rolling in money. We have fewer and fewer people in jobs like ticket offices, yet more and more people doing expensive "consultation". Don't you just love it?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

iv seen the mention that one of the higher ups in the government or DfT saying that the ITT wasnt radical enough... so once again we are back to the DfT micro managing contracts rather than all the "let franchises be inovative" that was talked about last year when longer franchises were being discussed:roll:

There's some irony here, if the Government/ DFT are mico-managing the bids because they aren't "innovative" enough... how can we have innovation and risk and new thinking when everything is so micro-managed? Gah!

 

[Blindtraveler]

a 5 year old could do better!

 

[The Planner]

Makes sense if all the rumblings of a timetable re-cast for 2013 are true.

 

[rail-britain]

does this mean that they are going to have to start the pre-qualification all over again...?

No, this process proceeds as notified, all the applicants are advised of changes to dates and required to respond within 7 days, if they do not respond within 7 days then would be excluded and considered as not wishing to proceed
This deadline has now passed, so the DfT will know the shortlist

The current West Coast franchise does not permit the operation of 11 coach Class 390 units
Negotiations had already taken place between VT and DfT, these failing
The only pointed agreed on was the acceptance of one additional unit, as a 9 coach unit, until the end of the current franchise

However, I do agree, with 2012 being so "important to London", the additional 9 coach units plus the 2 coach inserts should enter service as soon as accepted so as to allow some minor additional services and additional capacity through the summer and Olympics period
The 11 coach units / 2 coach inserts would probably be best on Birmingham / Manchester routes, the additional two coaches then being unreserved
After the summer and Olympics the 2 coaches could then be removed

 

[route:oxford]

Firstly I don't think that a mix of staff uniforms is really going to make much difference to the Olympics

Secondly, we've known we would be hosting this daft event since 2005(?), so I'm not sure why it wasn't factored in to the WCML bid a few months ago (if indeed it makes any difference)

Thirdly, if the bids weren't good enough then why was a shortlist published recently?

Fourthly, the constant deferring of big decisions, putting stuff off for another few months, then another few months... it doesn't fill me with confidence in the new Government's approach to rail. They've been quite decisive in other areas of government, yet quite timid when it comes to rail

Fifthly (is that a word?), if they can just extend the Virgin contract beyond the Olympics for another nine months then why aren't they doing the same for NXEA? Why are we getting this daft short-term contract for the Great Eastern/Anglia franchise (when there's no such treatment of the WCML)?

Sixthly (am sure that's not a word) I wish I had the foresight to be a consultant - these guys must be rolling in money. We have fewer and fewer people in jobs like ticket offices, yet more and more people doing expensive "consultation". Don't you just love it?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


There's some irony here, if the Government/ DFT are mico-managing the bids because they aren't "innovative" enough... how can we have innovation and risk and new thinking when everything is so micro-managed? Gah!

Olympics! Are you a republican?

The biggest event in June 2012 is the Diamond Jubilee.

 

[OxtedL]

Olympics! Are you a republican?

The biggest event in June 2012 is the Diamond Jubilee.

To be completely honest, 2012 to me does not mean Jubilee, it means Olympics. And I like much of the British public like a little pageantry.

Thinking about it, Lizzy had better hold out until the Paralympics have finished otherwise there could be...interestingness.

 

[ainsworth74]

Thinking about it, Lizzy had better hold out until the Paralympics have finished otherwise there could be...interestingness.

Don't see why there would be any issue at all seeing as the Jubilee will be in June and the Olympics will be in July.

 

[OxtedL]

Yes, but we don't her overshadowing anything... Touch wood.

Seriously though, both will be big events for the national transport infrastructure, so I agree not having any new operators is sensible, if inconvenient to planning departments who now have to reorganise.

 

[tbtc]

Olympics! Are you a republican?

The biggest event in June 2012 is the Diamond Jubilee.

Yup, I'm a republican, which is why I didn't appreciate the significance of June (rather than July) - I fell into your trap

 

[All Line Rover]

If the spec changes, we can expect DB Arriva, in particular, to lobby for a rerun of the pre-qualification.

If Arriva won the WCML franchise, I would be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS! I would go and protest outside Euston station!

They've already got Arriva Trains Wales (covering the whole of Wales) AND Arriva CrossCountry (covering most of England).

Admittedly they only have 2 franchises, but they cover vast areas of the UK. They would have some sort of monopoly if they owned the WCML franchise too. (Certain routes which currently have 2 competing operators, such as Birmingham to Edinburgh, would then be a monopoly, meaning no competition will be left.)

Arriva Trains Wales is OK, but is nothing like the WCML franchise. Arriva Cross Country is a good comparison (same trains etc.), and compared to Virgin Trains, they have:

• Higher fares
• Fewer cheap Advance tickets
• A worse First Class service
• Fairly pathetic customer service
• No Railcard "Peak travel" offer
• No free first class upgrade for Anytime tickets
• No first class upgrade on Advance tickets
• No child first class upgrade fares
• And they pay their staff much less than Virgin do
• etc. etc. etc.

The DfT must think their steps carefully here. Currently there is a fair bit of competition for the WCML franchise, but if Virgin lose it, I imagine they will leave the UK rail market completely. If that happens, only a few companies will remain, meaning much less competition for future franchises.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

They've already got Arriva Trains Wales (covering the whole of Wales) AND Arriva CrossCountry (covering most of England).
Arriva Trains Wales is OK, but is nothing like the WCML franchise. Arriva Cross Country is a good comparison (same trains etc.), and compared to Virgin Trains, they have:

• And they pay their staff much less than Virgin do

First have GW, CC, SR, HT and TP. That means they cover Western England, herfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Sussex, Scotland, Hull-London and Lancashire, Yorskhire and Cumbria! It doesn't matter who has monopoly on what!

I would also assume Unions wouldn't let Arriva pay people less than Virgin.

I would like to see First win, or Arriva, I doubt I could stand another 12 years of Virgin!

 

[WestCoast]

If Arriva won the WCML franchise, I would be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS! I would go and protest outside Euston station!

We've discussed the ins and outs of whether Virgin should keep it before. Here and here.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would like to see First win, or Arriva, I doubt I could stand another 12 years of Virgin!

I'd have anyone BUT First, Arriva or NX.

NX - for obvious reasons.

Arriva - just NO, CrossCountry seems to have gone downhill even with the precious few HSTs. ATW is nothing special.

First are very hit and miss (FCC vs. TPE?), but I'd say they were more likely to get EC. I reckon we need less of First anyway, they are becoming far too dominant - it will become like their awful buses soon.

Plus, do you want more generic boring transport giants with "dyanmic lines" or whatever? I'd say keep a company that has ties to other industries.

Keep Virgin, they do have faults, but they know what they are doing and I really doubt any of the above would do better! Unless you bring in someone like SNCF or DB proper I can't see much improvement happening.

 

[EWS 58038]

I would like to see First win, or Arriva, I doubt I could stand another 12 years of Virgin!

What's wrong with a Dutch fish-hook on the side of your train?

A blue with Yellow NS style Class 390 wouldn't hurt your eyes I promise you.

Northern is performing quite well (even with the Pacer crap they are forced to use)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What's wrong with a Dutch fish-hook on the side of your train?

Northern is performing quite well (even with the Pacer crap they are forced to use)

Indeed, I wouldn't mind that either. Bit of a differnce though: InterCity, modern stock, proper onbaord services; and regional, metro-style services on 25 year old stock!

 

[tbtc]

If Arriva won the WCML franchise, I would be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS! I would go and protest outside Euston station!

They've already got Arriva Trains Wales (covering the whole of Wales) AND Arriva CrossCountry (covering most of England).

Admittedly they only have 2 franchises, but they cover vast areas of the UK. They would have some sort of monopoly if they owned the WCML franchise too. (Certain routes which currently have 2 competing operators, such as Birmingham to Edinburgh, would then be a monopoly, meaning no competition will be left.)

Arriva Trains Wales is OK, but is nothing like the WCML franchise. Arriva Cross Country is a good comparison (same trains etc.), and compared to Virgin Trains, they have:

• Higher fares
• Fewer cheap Advance tickets
• A worse First Class service
• Fairly pathetic customer service
• No Railcard "Peak travel" offer
• No free first class upgrade for Anytime tickets
• No first class upgrade on Advance tickets
• No child first class upgrade fares
• And they pay their staff much less than Virgin do
• etc. etc. etc.

The DfT must think their steps carefully here. Currently there is a fair bit of competition for the WCML franchise, but if Virgin lose it, I imagine they will leave the UK rail market completely. If that happens, only a few companies will remain, meaning much less competition for future franchises.

XC and West Coast were part of the same TOC when Virgin ran them, with no competition issues

ATW only operate First Class on their Politician service, but then there's no First Class on many "provincial" operations

Inter City operators pay more than "provincial" operators too. Another fact of life.

Can't see what you are upset about, sorry
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What's wrong with a Dutch fish-hook on the side of your train?

A blue with Yellow NS style Class 390 wouldn't hurt your eyes I promise you.

Northern is performing quite well (even with the Pacer crap they are forced to use)

They are doing a very decent job with Northern, and I'd be happy if they got another franchise. You can't blame Abellio for most of the Northern problems (e.g. the DFT deciding that Birmingham's 150s are in need of replacement before Manchester's Pacers) - they make the most of what they have and run a decent service