Wessex Route Study - draft out for consultation

[edwin_m]

AIUI wimbledon Crossrail will be underground so I guess Raynes Park would be the best place for interchange.

Wimbledon to Bank is 5 stops including one change

Wimbledon to Monument via Xrail 2 and District from Victoria would be 11 Stops including one change.

I was thinking more of the change at Victoria being an option for the Blackfriars/Mansion House area.

 

[21C101]

I was thinking more of the change at Victoria being an option for the Blackfriars/Mansion House area.

True.

I expect quite a few people bail out at Clapham Junction to do that now.

 

[infobleep]

That sounds a bit dated, even statist - Customers come first, and the customer is always right; that is the sole reason for the existence of the railways.

Well if the customer is always right, they should have fixed the issues between Surbiton and Clapham Junction 10 years ago so passengers on fast trains could make use of Clapham Junction station during high peak rush hour when heading towards London in the morning and away from it in the evening but they didn't.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It also shows a lack of understanding of the fact that many people would rather drive than change trains halfway through their journey with the risk of being stuck there for an hour if it goes wrong.

Particuarly people with heavy luggage going to Gatwick Airport (the reason for that service from Victoria to Southampton)

People change trains all the time to get around London. I doubt people would drive into London if they had to change trains.

 

[Kettledrum]

Well if the customer is always right, they should have fixed the issues between Surbiton and Clapham Junction 10 years ago so passengers on fast trains could make use of Clapham Junction station during high peak rush hour when heading towards London in the morning and away from it in the evening but they didn't.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

People change trains all the time to get around London. I doubt people would drive into London if they had to change trains.

Hmmmmm - London is a different world to many parts of the country. With much more frequent trains like underground and metro style services, you can change trains easily, without much in the way of a time penalty. Try doing that in other parts of the country, and the extra time can be prohibitive.

 

[infobleep]

Hmmmmm - London is a different world to many parts of the country. With much more frequent trains like underground and metro style services, you can change trains easily, without much in the way of a time penalty. Try doing that in other parts of the country, and the extra time can be prohibitive.

You can in many parts of London but not always at Clapham Junction if you would like to board or alight from a fast South West Trains service. Even then I imagine passengers would travel to Waterloo, paying the extra costs or change and get a slow train(s) to Clapham Junction rather than drive into London.

I've spoken to one person who works in Hammersmith. They go to Waterloo and use the tubes. This takes longer than if they could change at Clapham Junction, go to Kensington Olympia and then pick up a bus. It also costs more too! They certainly don't drive to work though. That would be far worse!

 

[Chris125]

AIUI wimbledon Crossrail will be underground so I guess Raynes Park would be the best place for interchange.

The portal is north of Wimbledon in the current plans.

Chris

 

[21C101]

The portal is north of Wimbledon in the current plans.

Chris

I'm really surprised at that as I imagined that six tracks would be needed from Hampton Court Junction, or at least Raynes Park to the portal to enable extra capacity to Waterloo for remaining services.

I can't imagine them getting a couple more surface level tracks through Wimbledon.

 

[Class 170101]

The issue with the city is a valid one. It appears that the solution will be changing to Crossrail 2 at Tottenham Court Road but I don;t think that is adequate, especially if you are working in the south of the square mile

The one thing to bear in mind is that although Crossrail 1 will bring relief to the Central Line between Stratford and Ealing Broadway when it opens in 2019 don't be surprised if this 'space' soon fills up again and changing trains between Crossrail 2 and the Central Line becomes the challenge it is currently once again.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was thinking more of the change at Victoria being an option for the Blackfriars/Mansion House area.

I fear these will suffer the same issues I outlined above by the time Crossrail 2 opens even with Crossrail 1 expected to draw people away from the Earls Court area (freeing up capacity short term at Victoria) from 2019 it will soon fill up again.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would agree that Crossrail two, plus flyovers at Woking and Basingstoke, completing the grade separation of the whole route has to be the way forward.

Sensible in terms of avoiding crossing moves and I fully support the idea, though whether it could generate any extra paths in practise without a deteriment to performance elsewhere needs to be questioned. It should be noted of course once you remove one (or two) constraint(s) (in this case Woking, Basingstoke or both) but then comes along the next one to be tackled.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'm really surprised at that as I imagined that six tracks would be needed from Hampton Court Junction, or at least Raynes Park to the portal to enable extra capacity to Waterloo for remaining services.

I can't imagine them getting a couple more surface level tracks through Wimbledon.

Is it possible that having the CR2 portal north or Wimbledon and tunnelling the fast tracks under Wimbledon station could be cheaper than putting the CR2 portal South of Wimbledon? That would mean you don't have to build any underground platforms (and possibly, don't need to build any new platforms at all) at Wimbledon.

 

[mr_jrt]

Is it possible that having the CR2 portal north or Wimbledon and tunnelling the fast tracks under Wimbledon station could be cheaper than putting the CR2 portal South of Wimbledon? That would mean you don't have to build any underground platforms (and possibly, don't need to build any new platforms at all) at Wimbledon.

Excellent point, hadn't considered that. Maybe they're not so daft after all.

...but given no plans have been announced for any fast tunnels, not to mention there has been talk of a 5th/6th track south of Wimbledon, I reserve judgement!

If a short tunnel was viable here, I'd fully expect one to have already made an appearance in the plans for dealing with the Ealing Broadway to West Ealing bottleneck on the GWML for Crossrail 1.

 

[MarkyT]

If a short tunnel was viable here, I'd fully expect one to have already made an appearance in the plans for dealing with the Ealing Broadway to West Ealing bottleneck on the GWML for Crossrail 1.

I'm not convinced there is such a significant bottleneck for GWML traffic through Ealing, especially if everything on the reliefs was to stop at Ealing Broadway in the future. The problem accommodating all-stop and semi-fast patterns, both at 'moderate' rather than tube frequencies on the same pair over the longer route can probably be tackled by adding surface dynamic loops elsewhere, allowing semi-fasts to bypass a series of the more minor station platforms and overtake one or more all stations trains at the same time.

 

[21C101]

Is it possible that having the CR2 portal north or Wimbledon and tunnelling the fast tracks under Wimbledon station could be cheaper than putting the CR2 portal South of Wimbledon? That would mean you don't have to build any underground platforms (and possibly, don't need to build any new platforms at all) at Wimbledon.

It would be cheaper but it would mean that no extra capacity is provided on the South West Main Line.

Six tracks are needed north of Hampton Court Junction (or Raynes Park as a minimum) so that trains on the Guildford New line and "slow"/Semifast trains from Woking that currently cross over to the fast lines in the Surbiton area, can, post crossrail, remain on the slow lines - which would release a large number of paths on the fast lines for desperately needed extra fast services to Basingstoke etc.

If Crossrail tunnels don't start until north of Wimbledon then none of that is possible, nor would it be possible to fit 24TPH on the slows for Crossrail. Extra surface tracks through Wimbledon are in the no chance category so it means the tunnels need to start south of Wimbledon for the Crossrail benefits to be realised.

If they segregate the Crossrail services with six tracks as far as Hampton Court Junction, and grade separate Woking and Basingstoke then the following is possible, giving an almost tripling in capacity:

Crossrail
Four Per Hour Twickenham via Kingston
Four Per Hour Shepperton via Kingston
Four Per Hour Hampton Court
Four Per Hour Chessington South
Four Per Hour Dorking via Epsom
Four Per Hour Guildford via Epsom and Effingham

Slow Lines
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Hinchley wood and all stns to Guildford
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Esher and all stns to Guildford via Woking
Two Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Alton
Two per hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Basingstoke
Four per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Thanes Ditton, Hampton Court (peaks)

Fast Lines
4 Per Hour to Soton/Bomo/Weymouth
4 per Hour to Salisbury/Exeter
4 Per Hour to Portsmouth via Guildford
4 Per Hour to Woking Basingstoke only (Peaks)
2 Per Hour Woking and all stations to Alton (cross to Slow at Woking)
2 Per Hour Woking and all stations to Basingstoke (cross to Slow at Woking)
2 per hour Woking and Guildford only (peaks)
2 per hour Portsmouth via Eastleigh

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Could Swanage eventually get services by SWT, even if were just a couple of trains in the morning and a couple in the evening? Could they use a path that XC would have used if they still went through to Poole?

 

[Kettledrum]

Could Swanage eventually get services by SWT, even if were just a couple of trains in the morning and a couple in the evening? Could they use a path that XC would have used if they still went through to Poole?

I couldn't see the preserved/privately owned Swanage branch ever being electrified, but with bi-mode trains who knows.

There's no talk of it in the Wessex Route Study

 

[SpacePhoenix]

On a related note, why doesn't XC extend to Poole? The cost of fuel for the extra 5 or so miles can't be very much

 

[edwin_m]

It would be cheaper but it would mean that no extra capacity is provided on the South West Main Line.

Six tracks are needed north of Hampton Court Junction (or Raynes Park as a minimum) so that trains on the Guildford New line and "slow"/Semifast trains from Woking that currently cross over to the fast lines in the Surbiton area, can, post crossrail, remain on the slow lines - which would release a large number of paths on the fast lines for desperately needed extra fast services to Basingstoke etc.

If Crossrail tunnels don't start until north of Wimbledon then none of that is possible, nor would it be possible to fit 24TPH on the slows for Crossrail. Extra surface tracks through Wimbledon are in the no chance category so it means the tunnels need to start south of Wimbledon for the Crossrail benefits to be realised.

If they segregate the Crossrail services with six tracks as far as Hampton Court Junction, and grade separate Woking and Basingstoke then the following is possible, giving an almost tripling in capacity:

Wouldn't the idea of tunnelling the fast lines under Wimbledon mean that all four through platforms were available to Crossrail 2 or Waterloo slow trains? The fast lines would have to resurface to the north and the Crossrail tracks go into tunnel in about the same place (which sounds a bit complicated).

 

[anme]

That sounds a bit dated, even statist - Customers come first, and the customer is always right; that is the sole reason for the existence of the railways.

OK, let's think about this... I'm a customer of the railways, and according to this management philosophy, I'm always right. I would like a direct non-stop train between, let's say, Surbiton and Sellafield, because that's a journey I often make. I look forward to the railways accepting that I'm always right and furthermore the sole reason for their existence, and introducing this service. I'm prepared to accept an hourly frequency, but I insist on a restaurant car.

Back in the real world, resources are limited and decisions have to be made about how best to use them. These decisions can be made by the free market, or by governments. I suspect that neither will result in my service being launched anytime soon. Making decisions on the best use of resources is hardly "statist". To me it seems completely necessary.

BTW, I'm not offering an opinion on the Southern services to Southampton - just the general principle.

 

[swt_passenger]

On a related note, why doesn't XC extend to Poole? The cost of fuel for the extra 5 or so miles can't be very much

Going to Poole removes the half hour turn round time they want at Bournemouth to run a reliable service. When they previously ran to Poole they regularly missed their northbound departure times.

 

[mr_jrt]

I'm not convinced there is such a significant bottleneck for GWML traffic through Ealing, especially if everything on the reliefs was to stop at Ealing Broadway in the future. The problem accommodating all-stop and semi-fast patterns, both at 'moderate' rather than tube frequencies on the same pair over the longer route can probably be tackled by adding surface dynamic loops elsewhere, allowing semi-fasts to bypass a series of the more minor station platforms and overtake one or more all stations trains at the same time.

Point is that it should have tube frequencies, at least to Slough/Heathrow, but can't because of that bottleneck. ...but that's nothing to do with Wessex so we'll have to leave things there

 

[The Ham]

Fast Lines
4 Per Hour to Soton/Bomo/Weymouth
4 per Hour to Salisbury/Exeter
4 Per Hour to Portsmouth via Guildford
4 Per Hour to Woking Basingstoke only (Peaks)
2 Per Hour Woking and all stations to Alton (cross to Slow at Woking)
2 Per Hour Woking and all stations to Basingstoke (cross to Slow at Woking)
2 per hour Woking and Guildford only (peaks)
2 per hour Portsmouth via Eastleigh

I'd have thought that Southampton, Bournemouth and Weymouth would demand more paths than Salisbury/Exeter (bearing in mind Exeter has an alternative faster route).

Some of the above 16 services passing through Basingstoke will need to call additionally at Farnborough Main, as at present the 4 services that call there struggle to cope with passenger numbers during the peaks. To put this in perspective it has about 1/2 the passenger numbers of Woking and Basingstoke but doesn't have the same level of direct services, so it is likely that it would need a little more than 25% of the services that Basingstoke will have.

 

[jopsuk]

Six tracks through to Surbiton being talked about essentially means CR2 would have it's own tracks all the way, taking over branches as appropriate, which is surely operationally ideal.

The consideration given to the viability of Double Deckers meanwhile is fascinating, though very tentative.

 

[21C101]

I'd have thought that Southampton, Bournemouth and Weymouth would demand more paths than Salisbury/Exeter (bearing in mind Exeter has an alternative faster route).

Some of the above 16 services passing through Basingstoke will need to call additionally at Farnborough Main, as at present the 4 services that call there struggle to cope with passenger numbers during the peaks. To put this in perspective it has about 1/2 the passenger numbers of Woking and Basingstoke but doesn't have the same level of direct services, so it is likely that it would need a little more than 25% of the services that Basingstoke will have.

Basically I took the current service and doubled it.

There are currently two per hour to Bournemouth plus a stopper that calls at All stations south of Woking. In my scenario those are upped to four per hour all terminating at Basingstoke. Two of them could easily be extended onto Southampton giving six per hour to Southampton

4 per hour to Exeter is never likely to be needed but 2 to Exeter and 2 to Salisbury is not beyond the pale. (or even 1 to Exeter, 1 to Salisbury and 2x peak onlys to Andover post electrification)

For Farnborough, if you put fast to slow links in south of Pirbright, some or all of the 4 per hour peak onlys to Woking/Basingstoke could cross to the Slow lines there and call at Farnborough and Fleet.

I'm also going to rebuild Micheldever so that the current island platform becomes two terminating bays, move the up platform at Micheldever back to its original alignment and build a new down main and platform on the east side of the Island platform. This is because operationally this removes the conflicts that terminating trains at Basingstoke would cause.

So including your comments.

Crossrail
Four Per Hour Twickenham via Kingston
Four Per Hour Shepperton via Kingston
Four Per Hour Hampton Court
Four Per Hour Chessington South
Four Per Hour Dorking via Epsom
Four Per Hour Guildford via Epsom and Effingham

Slow Lines
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Hinchley wood and all stns to Guildford
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Esher and all stns to Guildford via Woking
Two Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Alton
Two per hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Micheldever.
Four per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Thanes Ditton, Hampton Court (peak only)

Fast Lines
4 Per Hour to Poole (2 onto Weymouth)
4 per Hour to Salisbury (2 onto Exeter)
4 Per Hour to Portsmouth via Guildford
4 Per Hour to Woking, Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke, Micheldever only (Peak only) (Cross to slow at Farnborough)
2 Per Hour Woking and all stations to Alton (cross to Slow at Woking)
2 Per Hour Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Southampton (cross to Slow at Farnborough)
2 per hour Woking and Guildford only (peak only)
2 per hour Portsmouth via Eastleigh

 

[JonathanH]

Basically I took the current service and doubled it.

There are currently two per hour to Bournemouth plus a stopper that calls at All stations south of Woking. In my scenario those are upped to four per hour all terminating at Basingstoke. Two of them could easily be extended onto Southampton giving six per hour to Southampton

4 per hour to exeter is never likely to be needed but 2 to exeter and 2 to salisbury is not beyond the pale.

For Farnborough, if you put fast to slow links in south of Pirbright, some or all of the 4 per hour peak onlys to Woking/Basingstoke could cross to the Slow lines there and call at Farnborough and Fleet. I'm also going to move the up platform at Micheldever back to its original alignment and turn the existing up platform into an up reversible as that would be a far better place to turn round Basingstoke terminators than Basingstoke

So including your comments.

Crossrail
Four Per Hour Twickenham via Kingston
Four Per Hour Shepperton via Kingston
Four Per Hour Hampton Court
Four Per Hour Chessington South
Four Per Hour Dorking via Epsom
Four Per Hour Guildford via Epsom and Effingham

Slow Lines
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Hinchley wood and all stns to Guildford
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Esher and all stns to Guildford via Woking
Two Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Alton
Two per hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Micheldever.
Four per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Thanes Ditton, Hampton Court (peaks)

Fast Lines
4 Per Hour to Poole (2 onto Weymouth)
4 per Hour to Salisbury (2 onto Exeter)
4 Per Hour to Portsmouth via Guildford
4 Per Hour to Woking, Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke, Micheldever only (Peaks) (Cross to slow at Farnborough)
2 Per Hour Woking and all stations to Alton (cross to Slow at Woking)
2 Per Hour Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Southampton (cross to Slow at Farnborough)
2 per hour Woking and Guildford only (peaks)
2 per hour Portsmouth via Eastleigh

If just someone remembered the people of Wokingham and Bracknell who might like a service which is fast to Weybridge and uses a flyover there and a reinstated curve at Virginia Water. I guess that the people of South East Berkshire are resigned to a train service that will never improve.

 

[JamesRowden]

If just someone remembered the people of Wokingham and Bracknell who might like a service which is fast to Weybridge and uses a flyover there and a reinstated curve at Virginia Water. I guess that the people of South East Berkshire are resigned to a train service that will never improve.

The Wessex Route Study Proposes a future off-peak service via Ascot "within the end of CP5 capability" (2019) of:

• 4 fast services via Richmond
  • 2 tph to Reading (only calling at Vauxhall, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham,
    Feltham, Staines, Egham, Virginia Water, Sunningdale, Ascot, Bracknell, Wokingham
    and Reading)
  • 2 tph to Aldershot (only calling at Vauxhall, Clapham Junction, Richmond, Twickenham,
    Feltham, Staines, Egham, Virginia Water, Sunningdale, Ascot, then all stations to
    Aldershot)
• 2 semi-fast services via Hounslow
  • 2 tph to Reading (calling at Vauxhall, Clapham Junction, Putney, Brentford, Hounslow,
    Feltham, Staines, Egham, Virginia Water, Sunningdale, Ascot, Martins Heron and all
    stations to Reading)

 

[21C101]

If just someone remembered the people of Wokingham and Bracknell who might like a service which is fast to Weybridge and uses a flyover there and a reinstated curve at Virginia Water. I guess that the people of South East Berkshire are resigned to a train service that will never improve.

I don't think a flyover is feasible.

A better idea would be a new northward flying junction at Pirbright with 3 miles of new track to Bagshot then a new curve at Ascot.

Then the two Peak Hour Only trains I plotted to run down the fast to Woking and Guildford only could instead run all day and call at Woking (move to slow), Brookwood, Bagshot, Martins Heron, Bracknell, Wokingham and all stns to Reading. so, Mk3:

Crossrail
Four Per Hour Twickenham via Kingston
Four Per Hour Shepperton via Kingston
Four Per Hour Hampton Court
Four Per Hour Chessington South
Four Per Hour Dorking via Epsom
Four Per Hour Guildford via Epsom and Effingham

Slow Lines
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Hinchley wood and all stns to Guildford
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Esher and all stns to Guildford via Woking
Two Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Alton
Two per hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Micheldever.
Four per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Thanes Ditton, Hampton Court (peak only)

Fast Lines
4 Per Hour to Poole (2 onto Weymouth)
4 per Hour to Salisbury (2 onto Exeter)
4 Per Hour to Portsmouth via Guildford
4 Per Hour to Woking, Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke, Micheldever only (Peak only) (Cross to slow at Farnborough)
2 Per Hour Woking and all stations to Alton (cross to Slow at Woking)
2 Per Hour Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Southampton (cross to Slow at Farnborough)
2 per hour Woking, Brookwood, Bagshot, Martins Heron, Bracknell and all stns to Reading (cross to slow at Woking)
2 per hour Portsmouth via Eastleigh

I'm sure the final timetable will be very different but it does illustrate how with grade separation at Woking and extra tracks for Crossrail as far as Hampton Court Jct there is the scope for a massive capacity increase on the SWML.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I don't think a flyover is feasible.

A better idea would be a new northward flying junction at Pirbright with 3 miles of new track to Bagshot then a new curve at Ascot.

Then the two Peak Hour Only trains I plotted to run down the fast to Woking and Guildford only could instead run all day and call at Woking (move to slow), Brookwood, Bagshot, Martins Heron, Bracknell, Wokingham and all stns to Reading. so, Mk3:

Crossrail
Four Per Hour Twickenham via Kingston
Four Per Hour Shepperton via Kingston
Four Per Hour Hampton Court
Four Per Hour Chessington South
Four Per Hour Dorking via Epsom
Four Per Hour Guildford via Epsom and Effingham

Slow Lines
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Hinchley wood and all stns to Guildford
Four Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Esher and all stns to Guildford via Woking
Two Per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Alton
Two per hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking and all stns to Micheldever.
Four per Hour Vaux, Clapham Jct, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, Surbiton Thanes Ditton, Hampton Court (peak only)

Fast Lines
4 Per Hour to Poole (2 onto Weymouth)
4 per Hour to Salisbury (2 onto Exeter)
4 Per Hour to Portsmouth via Guildford
4 Per Hour to Woking, Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke, Micheldever only (Peak only) (Cross to slow at Farnborough)
2 Per Hour Woking and all stations to Alton (cross to Slow at Woking)
2 Per Hour Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Southampton (cross to Slow at Farnborough)
2 per hour Woking, Brookwood, Bagshot, Martins Heron, Bracknell and all stns to Reading (cross to slow at Woking)
2 per hour Portsmouth via Eastleigh

I'm sure the final timetable will be very different but it does illustrate how with grade separation at Woking and extra tracks for Crossrail as far as Hampton Court Jct there is the scope for a massive capacity increase on the SWML.

We don't want any more calls within Surbiton boundary, if anything it should be less. Cobham & Woking (locals) have already seen their journey times increase substantially (by approx 6-8').

I'm of the age where I can remember working Cobham line trains when they were fast from Wimbledon or Clapham into Waterloo, now it's an hour or 64' for a Cobham or 52-55' for a Woking!

It's now an average speed between Surbiton & Wimbledon (thanks to some inept retiming work) of just 36 mph to achieve a right time arrival at Wimbledon & even then they get delayed because of the wretched Kingston loopers always running late.

Time to go back to the old days where they ran to Waterloo in ~50-55' for Cobham & 40-45' for the Woking (locals).

 

[21C101]

We don't want any more calls within Surbiton boundary, if anything it should be less. Cobham & Woking (locals) have already seen their journey times increase substantially (by approx 6-8').

I'm of the age where I can remember working Cobham line trains when they were fast from Wimbledon or Clapham into Waterloo, now it's an hour or 64' for a Cobham or 52-55' for a Woking!

It's now an average speed between Surbiton & Wimbledon (thanks to some inept retiming work) of just 36 mph to achieve a right time arrival at Wimbledon & even then they get delayed because of the wretched Kingston loopers always running late.

Time to go back to the old days where they ran to Waterloo in ~50-55' for Cobham & 40-45' for the Woking (locals).

With the Kingston loopers etc. safely on Crossrail the slow lines would hopefully be a lot more reliable and not so slow.

I had yours call at Clapham Jct, Vauxhall and Wimbledon because they are key interchange stations. Raynes Park is in because that would be the key interchange for Crossrail with cross platform interchange.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

With the Kingston loopers etc. safely on Crossrail the slow lines would hopefully be a lot more reliable and not so slow.

I had yours call at Clapham Jct, Vauxhall and Wimbledon because they are key interchange stations. Raynes Park is in because that would be the key interchange for Crossrail with cross platform interchange.

They can change at Wimbledon simples.

 

[The Ham]

I don't think a flyover is feasible.

A better idea would be a new northward flying junction at Pirbright with 3 miles of new track to Bagshot then a new curve at Ascot.

Then the two Peak Hour Only trains I plotted to run down the fast to Woking and Guildford only could instead run all day and call at Woking (move to slow), Brookwood, Bagshot, Martins Heron, Bracknell, Wokingham and all stns to Reading.

That would really annoy the residents of Camberley who are looking for a new junction (well part new and part reopening) with the SWML at Frimley to provide faster journey times to London.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Fast Lines
4 Per Hour to Poole (2 onto Weymouth)
4 per Hour to Salisbury (2 onto Exeter)
4 Per Hour to Portsmouth via Guildford
4 Per Hour to Woking, Farnborough, Fleet, Basingstoke, Micheldever only (Peak only) (Cross to slow at Farnborough)
2 Per Hour Woking and all stations to Alton (cross to Slow at Woking)
2 Per Hour Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Southampton (cross to Slow at Farnborough)
2 per hour Woking, Brookwood, Bagshot, Martins Heron, Bracknell and all stns to Reading (cross to slow at Woking)
2 per hour Portsmouth via Eastleigh

I'm sure the final timetable will be very different but it does illustrate how with grade separation at Woking and extra tracks for Crossrail as far as Hampton Court Jct there is the scope for a massive capacity increase on the SWML.

What's the maximum capacity (trains per hour) for the track between Southampton and Poole?

If the capacity exists, why not extended all of the "2 Per Hour Woking, Farnborough and all stations to Southampton (cross to Slow at Farnborough)" to Poole.

Is there anything apart from cost that would stop the single track section east of Dorchester South from being redoubled? Why can't all the trains that finish at Poole not carry on to Weymouth?