Werrington grade separation updates

[Freightmaster]

Will the other Stamford line stay in its current position?

I have been wondering that myself - I presume that it will eventually be slewed over to where the (temporary) Up Stamford was,
which couldn't be done in the most recent possession as it involves moving OLE masts.





MARK

 

[59CosG95]

I have been wondering that myself - I presume that it will eventually be slewed over to where the (temporary) Up Stamford was,
which couldn't be done in the most recent possession as it involves moving OLE masts.





MARK

No - the Down Stamford line stays put.

 

[D365]

Not sure where the perceived need for slewing the down Stamford comes from. Aesthetics?

 

[swt_passenger]

I have been wondering that myself - I presume that it will eventually be slewed over to where the (temporary) Up Stamford was,
which couldn't be done in the most recent possession as it involves moving OLE masts.

MARK

I saw a drawing, (back when the TWA papers were easily found online), that had a maintenance access road between the down Stamford and the dive-under box, reaching as far as the south end of the dive-under ramp. There’s a low level vehicular access under the down Stamford track alongside the bottom of the ramp with a fairly steep gradient up to the surface level.

 

[Freightmaster]

Not sure where the perceived need for slewing the down Stamford comes from. Aesthetics?

I was thinking that it would beneficial to line speed to reduce the curvature of the 'kink' as much as possible?


If anyone is wondering what I am referring to, this is how it currently looks:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2021_06/20210611_130439.jpg.e47d2a231c0666418899a94dba56d06b.jpg

MARK

 

[adamedwards]

Given all trains call at Peterborough station, does this make much difference? Anyone know what the speed limit is and the maximum on the Leicester line?

 

[swt_passenger]

I was thinking that it would beneficial to line speed to reduce the curvature of the 'kink' as much as possible?


If anyone is wondering what I am referring to, this is how it currently looks:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2021_06/20210611_130439.jpg.e47d2a231c0666418899a94dba56d06b.jpg

MARK

The difference in the apparent kink achieved by moving to the temporary up line alignment would be insignificant, there’s about a quarter of a mile involved in the foreground of that picture where the tracks split so it’s very exaggerated, a satellite view shows it is really much less curved.

 

[TheBigD]

Given all trains call at Peterborough station, does this make much difference? Anyone know what the speed limit is and the maximum on the Leicester line?

SP90 and 75mph maximum on the Leicester line. Though for that section it's 75mph.

 

[Aictos]

SP90 and 75mph maximum on the Leicester line. Though for that section it's 75mph.

Thanks for that, I didn't realise the line speed was so slow to Leicester.

 

[Bald Rick]

I was thinking that it would beneficial to line speed to reduce the curvature of the 'kink' as much as possible?

Less of a ‘kink’ on the new route than going the other side! Besides, that’s good enough for 90mph.

 

[steve2525]

So that services using the diveunder don't conflict with the Stamford lines. The lines where they temporarily were would have results in needless conflicting movements. I believe the other line will remain, yes.

Thanks

 

[Class 170101]

Given all trains call at Peterborough station, does this make much difference? Anyone know what the speed limit is and the maximum on the Leicester line?

I was thinking that it would beneficial to line speed to reduce the curvature of the 'kink' as much as possible?


If anyone is wondering what I am referring to, this is how it currently looks:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2021_06/20210611_130439.jpg.e47d2a231c0666418899a94dba56d06b.jpg

MARK

Don't forget Freight runs through Peterborough and doesn't have to stop there @adamedwards and so could be at 75mph.

What is the speed supposed to be for the diveunder though? I haven't seen anything posted as far as I can tell.

 

[swt_passenger]

Don't forget Freight runs through Peterborough and doesn't have to stop there @adamedwards and so could be at 75mph.

What is the speed supposed to be for the diveunder though? I haven't seen anything posted as far as I can tell.

There’s a fly through CGI video somewhere with all the signs and signals. (It was linked in post #527.)

I slowed it down to see better, there’s a lot of info just gets flashed up for short periods. Details of routes start about 1 minute in. As posted since, it’s 60 mph both ways.

 

[alf]

Less of a ‘kink’ on the new route than going the other side! Besides, that’s good enough for 90mph.

How do you know? Apart from looking at the excellent photograph like the rest of us.

Is your “good enough for 90mph” from the Network Rail Media Office or is it a guess?

Limiting speed now is a handicap when the layout may be frozen for another half century & it is possible trains will be better at accelerating & braking in the future.
Extra braking uses more energy, wears & tares train & track, & has a CO2 cost.
Higher sustained speeds( 5 secs here, 10 secs there) cut journey time & get more productivity from staff & expensive capital equipment.

 

[GB]

Don't forget Freight runs through Peterborough and doesn't have to stop there @adamedwards and so could be at 75mph.

What is the speed supposed to be for the diveunder though? I haven't seen anything posted as far as I can tell.

Except that a lot of freight does stop at Peterborough, either at the station, March Independent or the two way goods for either pathing or crew requirements. There will also be services that still require access to/from the VQ.

 

[Ianno87]

How do you know? Apart from looking at the excellent photograph like the rest of us.

Is your “good enough for 90mph” from the Network Rail Media Office or is it a guess?

Limiting speed now is a handicap when the layout may be frozen for another half century & it is possible trains will be better at accelerating & braking in the future.
Extra braking uses more energy, wears & tares train & track, & has a CO2 cost.
Higher sustained speeds( 5 secs here, 10 secs there) cut journey time & get more productivity from staff & expensive capital equipment.

Another factor in the speed consideration is not having a high speed differential between the Stamford Lines and the Dive under and thus introducing the need for approach controlled signalling.

 

[59CosG95]

Don't forget Freight runs through Peterborough and doesn't have to stop there @adamedwards and so could be at 75mph.

What is the speed supposed to be for the diveunder though? I haven't seen anything posted as far as I can tell.

60mph through the diveunder.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is your “good enough for 90mph” from the Network Rail Media Office or is it a guess?

From the drawings.

 

[tel]

Any idea when the whole Junction is to be reopened or is that a how long is a piece of string question? Thanks.

Tel

 

[Freightmaster]

Any idea when the whole Junction is to be reopened
Tel

As far as I am aware, commissioning takes place in September.




MARK

 

[tel]

As far as I am aware, commissioning takes place in September.




MARK

Thanks Mark.

 

[swt_passenger]

Any idea when the whole Junction is to be reopened or is that a how long is a piece of string question? Thanks.

Tel

The one remaing set of points (in the down Stamford) at the south end of the dive-under route is due to go in one weekend in July, according to Network Rail‘s scheme web page, and it looks like that’s booked for the 17/18th.

The various stages remaining are described near the very end of this page: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...st-coast-upgrade/werrington-grade-separation/

Network Rail are hedging their bets I think, they simply refer to the dive-under being in use “from late 2021”.

 

[John R]

An interesting working in the wrong direction on the down Stamford in the video.

 

[GB]

I wonder if it would have made sense to keep the temporary up Stamford line as a goods loop when the works are finished. Doesn't take much to occupy the space just south of the Station and cause delay further back and could have been a holding area for trains heading to the VQ if needed.

 

[zwk500]

I wonder if it would have made sense to keep the temporary up Stamford line as a goods loop when the works are finished. Doesn't take much to occupy the space just south of the Station and cause delay further back and could have been a holding area for trains heading to the VQ if needed.

There's already the 2-way Goods at Peterborough if you need to keep P7 clear of down trains, and looping up trains the wrong side of the conflict makes no sense, especially as the Up Stamford isn't really that busy.

 

[alf]

From the drawings.

Are they in the public domain?
I have looked further back and not seen any drawings, which would allow one to conclude a 90mph PSR.

From your postings it looks like you work for NR. Apologies if wrong.
Could you point us to the drawing that told you 90 mph was possible?

 

[Bald Rick]

Could you point us to the drawing that told you 90 mph was possible?

Nope.

 

[Ianno87]

There's already the 2-way Goods at Peterborough if you need to keep P7 clear of down trains, and looping up trains the wrong side of the conflict makes no sense, especially as the Up Stamford isn't really that busy.

That and Up freight trains "on the move" there may as well get to Peterborough to be regulated rather than stopping and re-starting.

 

[zwk500]

That and Up freight trains "on the move" there may as well get to Peterborough to be regulated rather than stopping and re-starting.

Well, if they're crossing New England North Jn that'll be a bit of a problem. But yes you can easily regulate an up freight in 5 or 6 using the March Independent and Up March to work around.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought I’d cross reference the photo and video thread, where there are a couple of videos showing the up diveunder line being put in place by the Balfour Beatty machine:

Photos and videos from Werrington Junction, including work on the grade seperation project

Trains on the ECML. A film by Trackside ECML:

www.railforums.co.uk