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Werrington grade separation updates

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59CosG95

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Obviously that would be a issue but it's something that the dive under at Werrington Junction will avoid as it ought to be less conflicts for East Anglia to Yorkshire freight flows otherwise they wouldn't be doing the work in the first place would they?

As to the tunnels above, I've no idea if it's possible but could they lower the track to ensure there is sufficient clearance in place which would resolve the issue you've raised above.
Can't pretend I know the first thing about both those tunnels and their specific clearances - all I know is that "there's an issue", which a friend working for an FOC forwarded on to me. Obviously Werrington will divert pretty much all the East Anglia/London - Yorkshire freight away from said tunnels, but the problem of the tunnels arises if the GN/GE Joint Line is blocked along that route for any reason.

Peascliff could be circumvented if the trains use the Barkston/Allington Curve, that much is certain.
 
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furnessvale

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Can't pretend I know the first thing about both those tunnels and their specific clearances - all I know is that "there's an issue", which a friend working for an FOC forwarded on to me. Obviously Werrington will divert pretty much all the East Anglia/London - Yorkshire freight away from said tunnels, but the problem of the tunnels arises if the GN/GE Joint Line is blocked along that route for any reason.

Peascliff could be circumvented if the trains use the Barkston/Allington Curve, that much is certain.
Surely that problem already exists today?
 

edwin_m

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Can't pretend I know the first thing about both those tunnels and their specific clearances - all I know is that "there's an issue", which a friend working for an FOC forwarded on to me. Obviously Werrington will divert pretty much all the East Anglia/London - Yorkshire freight away from said tunnels, but the problem of the tunnels arises if the GN/GE Joint Line is blocked along that route for any reason.

Peascliff could be circumvented if the trains use the Barkston/Allington Curve, that much is certain.
Stoke and Peascliffe had clearances increased in around 1979, though clearly not for current container sizes. The third tunnel in the programme was Penmanshiel...
 

InOban

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I understood that the main driver of the investment in the Lincoln route was as part of a W12 freight route from Felixstowe to Scotland.
 

lancastrian

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Just a thought about the potential of using the Werrington Dive Under for turn backs, why not just electrify through to Spalding. Not only would it remove ECS mileage, it would open up Spalding as a potential commuter town for London.

Sits back and waits for all the reason that this is not possible/practical.
 

Aictos

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Just a thought about the potential of using the Werrington Dive Under for turn backs, why not just electrify through to Spalding. Not only would it remove ECS mileage, it would open up Spalding as a potential commuter town for London.

Sits back and waits for all the reason that this is not possible/practical.

Good point but won't happen for same reason Stamford won't see OHL wires, Peterborough is seen as the local railhead with good connections.
 

AndrewE

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Good point but won't happen for same reason Stamford won't see OHL wires, Peterborough is seen as the local railhead with good connections.
You mean like the single class 153 that I saw creeping off to Spalding last week?
I agree it won't get done, but because this is the UK. As has been said on another thread recently, investment will be too little, too late and penny-pinching so that the full benefit isn't gained.
Network rail and the many layers of sub- and sub-sub-contractors may be partly to blame, but there is no sign of government commitment to a clean and effective railway.
 

Aictos

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You mean like the single class 153 that I saw creeping off to Spalding last week?
I agree it won't get done, but because this is the UK. As has been said on another thread recently, investment will be too little, too late and penny-pinching so that the full benefit isn't gained.
Network rail and the many layers of sub- and sub-sub-contractors may be partly to blame, but there is no sign of government commitment to a clean and effective railway.

Also the fact that Stamford is served by a hourly XC service which takes around 10 minutes to get to/from Peterborough and it's no surprise why Peterborough is seen as the railhead for Stamford even though the latter has it's own station.

Apart from the daily Peterborough to Doncaster via Lincoln, daily return Nottingham to Spalding via Peterborough or the Newark Northgate to Peterborough via Lincoln which is a new one to me, all services between Peterborough and Lincoln are more or less on the hour and all call at all stations to Lincoln which is why the powers to be never mind the signal box opening hours don't see why they ought to improve the service.

Yes it would be nice to extend the Kings Cross - Peterborough Class 365 services to Stamford and Spalding but I would much rather prefer they 1. Extended all Peterborough to Lincoln services to Doncaster calling all stations on a hourly basis, 2. Ensure departures from either end leave at a set time which is the same time past the hour on the hour, 3. Maybe look at expanding the services to have 2 car trains.

As to Stamford, simply extending the Leicester XC services to March would allow it to improve the service that Whittlesea gets for one by introducing a hourly service as it is a commuter town on the outskirts of Peterborough much like Spalding and Stamford are and by reinstating one of the bays at March you have a already made platform to terminate/start these services plus stations from Leicester to March will see 2tph pretty much all day.

But I fear we are moving away from the theme which is Werrington Grade Separation, the only remaining Grade Separation that reminds in the Peterborough area and it's something I don't think can be done easily and that's access from the south end of the yards to the March lines at Peterborough as at the moment they have to cross all running lines to get a freight from the yard to March.

That's something that I think is more important then trying to do the same for passenger services coming from London as freight services are a lot slower and longer so anything that can ensure they move quicker without impacting on passenger services is a good thing.

I look forward to seeing the completion of the Werrington Grade Separation and I look forward to the frequent/regular updates here.
 

richieb1971

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My bizarre contribution of the day.

upload_2018-12-18_13-29-15.png

The Nene valley gets another mainline connection. That seems rather over the top for a depot connection and it would still need to cross the down fast. But with the right amount of money and signatures it could be done.
 

59CosG95

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My bizarre contribution of the day.

View attachment 56835

The Nene valley gets another mainline connection. That seems rather over the top for a depot connection and it would still need to cross the down fast. But with the right amount of money and signatures it could be done.
This just seems to me to be solving problems that never existed in the first place.

The NVR would probably object to a fairly tight curve impinging on the neighbouring properties, and the (presumed) installation of OLE along part of their infrastructure. Plus, it seems to miss out a connection at Peterborough Nene C.S., which I assumed was the conflict everyone was harking on about in the first place.

Far better, in my view, to build a grade-separated approach linking New England/Eastfield Yard with the western platforms, with a pair of shunt lines in the largely disused yard being wired and converted to turnback sidings.
Not only does this solve the perceived conundrum of the "Thameslink Reversal", but it also allows any freight services accessing the yard north of Peterborough from P4-7 to avoid the ECML fast lines completely.

However, I stress that this has not one iota of relevance to the project to grade-separate Werrington, and schemes like the one I mention above will probably fade into irrelevance with the passage of time, as most of the constraints posed by New England Yd will be largely solved by Werrington anyhow (as trains that berth in the yard will have less need to use it).
 

richieb1971

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Surely the best thing to do here is switch the positions of the GBRf depot and the carriage sidings. I think that would cover just about everything apart from road access.

When I'm at Peterborough I notice a lot of driver changes at Peterborough (or maybe some other reason why just about every freight stops there). There doesn't seem to be any freight that starts at Peterborough, so you just need that third track south west of the station which leads to the Ely line for a freight to stop by those carriage sidings (which would then be the GBRf depot) and your done.
 

Aictos

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Far better, in my view, to build a grade-separated approach linking New England/Eastfield Yard with the western platforms, with a pair of shunt lines in the largely disused yard being wired and converted to turnback sidings.
Not only does this solve the perceived conundrum of the "Thameslink Reversal", but it also allows any freight services accessing the yard north of Peterborough from P4-7 to avoid the ECML fast lines completely.

My view exactly, this would be of far more use IF such a business case can be found to be viable.

Surely the best thing to do here is switch the positions of the GBRf depot and the carriage sidings. I think that would cover just about everything apart from road access.

When I'm at Peterborough I notice a lot of driver changes at Peterborough (or maybe some other reason why just about every freight stops there). There doesn't seem to be any freight that starts at Peterborough, so you just need that third track south west of the station which leads to the Ely line for a freight to stop by those carriage sidings (which would then be the GBRf depot) and your done.

Umm, are you not forgetting that Freightliner and DB Schenker also do crew changes at Peterborough - Freightliner has a driver depot just outside the station while DB Schenker has one next to the GTR driver depot.

So no point in swapping stabling locations around as that's a solution looking for a problem which there isn't one.
 

richieb1971

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Was not aware of any DB and freightliner depots in Peterborough. I only see GBRf locos stabled there.
 
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Was not aware of any DB and freightliner depots in Peterborough. I only see GBRf locos stabled there.

That's my depot!! Although DB call us Cambridgeshire Hub these days, however I'll always be Peterborough Depot !!

Freightliner have a portacabin just outside north end of Platform 1

GBRF are up at the old con depot
 

Aictos

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Was not aware of any DB and freightliner depots in Peterborough. I only see GBRf locos stabled there.

DB certainly has a loco depot at Peterborough as it's where you will find the RHTT in the autumn between it's outings, I believe it's only a 2 road shed though but it certainly sees use by DB locos.

As you can see in this photo thanks to Wikipedia, you can clearly see who manages it and that they DO have locos use it.
PB Depot.jpg
DB also has a Driver Depot as pointed out by @berwicksfinest as well as Freightliner still having a presence with their portakabin just outside the north end of Platform 1 having moved there a few years ago from their former office on what was Platform 3 now Platform 2.

That's my depot!! Although DB call us Cambridgeshire Hub these days, however I'll always be Peterborough Depot !!

Freightliner have a portacabin just outside north end of Platform 1

GBRF are up at the old con depot
 
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Our shed consists of the shed road (goes through the shed)
The fuel pad where Class403's picture shows the 66s
The run round road nearest the main line.
With the dead end down where the new Waitrose is now and the carriage road (siding before the run round road starts)

Unfortunately the depot is now our car !! but there is a depot (container) behind the shed for tea's, coffee's and 1s and 2s
 

richieb1971

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Whose freights are the ones that sit in the north end sidings waiting for a green for the Ely line? I am sure they are the problematic ones since they cross the fasts at very low speed.

If its all 3 companies (GBRf, DB and Freightliner) then I guess having a depot on the south end won't work. But its just one it might work better if those trains use the Werrington under pass as described.

If DB/Freightliner only use the north depot to stable singular locos thats not really a problem as it only takes 2 minutes to cross the tracks with a light loco.
 

59CosG95

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Whose freights are the ones that sit in the north end sidings waiting for a green for the Ely line? I am sure they are the problematic ones since they cross the fasts at very low speed.

If its all 3 companies (GBRf, DB and Freightliner) then I guess having a depot on the south end won't work. But its just one it might work better if those trains use the Werrington under pass as described.

If DB/Freightliner only use the north depot to stable singular locos thats not really a problem as it only takes 2 minutes to cross the tracks with a light loco.
It depends on where each service originates; DB's trains tend to take the Stamford lines (so the question of freight is academic for them), but they use the depot as a base for RHTT sets in the autumn. GBRf & FL both use the sidings north of the station.
 

Aictos

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It depends on where each service originates; DB's trains tend to take the Stamford lines (so the question of freight is academic for them), but they use the depot as a base for RHTT sets in the autumn. GBRf & FL both use the sidings north of the station.

The odd exception unless it's changed is the Plasmor train operated by DB which uses the yard north of the station note I said Yard not Sidings.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H34873/2018/12/20
 
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The odd exception unless it's changed is the Plasmor train operated by DB which uses the yard north of the station note I said Yard not Sidings.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H34873/2018/12/20

Currently Plasmor 6L69 is crew by DB for the Biggleswade/Bow portion but the return working 4E25/4D56 we get relieved at Peterborough by GBRf crew, who are contracted in. who cover the Heck working and return, where the train is recessed for a few hours in Peterborough West Yard specifically 10 East road as the Yard is mothballed.
 

Aictos

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Currently Plasmor 6L69 is crew by DB for the Biggleswade/Bow portion but the return working 4E25/4D56 we get relieved at Peterborough by GBRf crew, who are contracted in. who cover the Heck working and return, where the train is recessed for a few hours in Peterborough West Yard specifically 10 East road as the Yard is mothballed.

Ahh I didn't know GBRF covered part of the working, so cheers for that :)
 

D365

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My bizarre contribution of the day.

The Nene valley gets another mainline connection. That seems rather over the top for a depot connection and it would still need to cross the down fast. But with the right amount of money and signatures it could be done.

Does somebody mind explaining this image please, maybe it's just me but I do not understand what is proposed here...
 

D365

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It shows the Fletton Loop which allows access to the Nene Valley Railway from the ECML for visiting locomotives attending steam or diesel galas.

I'm aware of that, but that is an existing route. I was interested in what @richieb1971 is proposing.
 

59CosG95

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Does anyone have any news of recent progress on the dive under works please?
Passing the Werrington area on the train yesterday, I saw that a lot of de-vegetation work had gone on, particularly around Cock Lane footbridge (between the Stirling Way Industrial Estate & the Dukesmead Estate). The heaviest de-veg work was next to the Down Stamford, where the route for the new alignment was being cleared.
 

Aictos

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Passing the Werrington area on the train yesterday, I saw that a lot of de-vegetation work had gone on, particularly around Cock Lane footbridge (between the Stirling Way Industrial Estate & the Dukesmead Estate). The heaviest de-veg work was next to the Down Stamford, where the route for the new alignment was being cleared.

Thanks for the update :D
 

Crun

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Passing the Werrington area on the train yesterday, I saw that a lot of de-vegetation work had gone on, particularly around Cock Lane footbridge (between the Stirling Way Industrial Estate & the Dukesmead Estate). The heaviest de-veg work was next to the Down Stamford, where the route for the new alignment was being cleared.

Many thanks for the update. I must cycle out that way and check on progress.
 
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