Welsh Minister Public Commitment to not for profit franchise

[merlodlliw]

Just FYI, none of the Dwr Cymru board are appointed by politicians - the executive directors are all utilities experts, as is the senior management of the company. This would be reflected in the board/operations of any future Trennau Cymru set up I'm sure.

I think we've tangled ourselves into a mess in this thread a bit.

The Glas Cymru/Dwr Cymru ownership structure is no different than the current Arriva UK Trains/ATW ownership structure. The only difference is that rather than profits going to shareholders, they are reinvested back into the business.

With all respect,one of the board was recommend by a Politician,and not from the utility world but nearer to the thread title, I know this person very well, I am unable to name this person on an open web site,in my book recommended for appointment is the same.
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All right re investing profit but the TOC's only account for a quarter of the profit made in the industry most goes to the construction companies NR gives enhancement contracts too. Most left leaning folk don't seem to realise this.

You are of course correct, the Wrexham redouble is now six months behind,due to incompetence, the extra being paid out to the contractor for the delay would have redoubled a few more miles, no good NR saying we have found more problems, a few rail experts in the first place may well have sorted this farce, in place of politics demanding what should be done.
With the report on Wrexham Stations under capacity to provide extra services for the super prison in two years, its not me mate, blame the consultants.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Agreed - I think that any "saving" made by keeping things In House would be so trivial that they wouldn't impact upon ticket prices (say a £7.70 return from Aberdare to Cardiff). Compared to the cost of subsidising an unprofitable franchise like Wales & Borders, the "profit" for the TOC isn't significant.

That's assuming that a "public" franchise could keep costs down, wouldn't end up with overstaffing, would be able to stand up to politicians wanting grandiose schemes, that the public purse would be able to deal with the fluctuating revenues etc etc.

I'd be interested to see whether a "public" franchise would work (DOR are paying a much smaller premium to the Treasury than Stagecoach/Virgin are proposing), but I don't think it'll affect ticket prices one way or the other - so I think that people's views really depend on their political preference.

(and before anyone says anything, costs like repainting/vinyling trains and putting up new signs are going to be required every few years regardless of whether it's public or private)

And don't forget that a lot of the profit in the current franchise is made from the England only bits of it. It's not a question of spending the profits generated from the franchise in Wales. There's some almighty fall out from the Borders brewing if Improvements are Welsh/Cardiff centric.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

a few rail experts in the first place may well have sorted this farce, in place of politics demanding what should be done.

Who are these experts,then?

 

[merlodlliw]

Who are these experts,then?

People with an in depth knowledge of the rail infrastructure should have been consulted, those WG employees sitting in an office in Cardiff Bay have not got the experience to challenge Network Rails ever changing costings on this job.
At the meetings at Rossett,NR staff sent from Cardiff and Colas rail told me
they were astounded no one in Cardiff Bay had requested extra capacity in the job, the only automatic extra capacity as a result of the five mile redouble was one extra path an hour, ie four in place of three.
The job is now not expected to finish until July/August, half a year late. We were told by NR management the track would be laid by machine, instead its by the shovel.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

People with an in depth knowledge of the rail infrastructure should have been consulted, those WG employees sitting in an office in Cardiff Bay have not got the experience to challenge Network Rails ever changing costings on this job.

Thank you...I accept your explanation but I'm still not clear who these people are! Are they already employed in the industry? Outside consultants (at great expense)? People from pressure groups/consultative committees? Does the WG have effective mechanisms in place to find and consult with these people? Sorry, I'm either being a bit slow here or I'm thinking that you might not be sure yourself!

 

[merlodlliw]

Thank you...I accept your explanation but I'm still not clear who these people are! Are they already employed in the industry? Outside consultants (at great expense)? People from pressure groups/consultative committees? Does the WG have effective mechanisms in place to find and consult with these people? Sorry, I'm either being a bit slow here or I'm thinking that you might not be sure yourself!

Some have just retired from Network Rail with vast experience, others are expert in their field and now are self employed, I agree they charge an arm & a leg, but Welsh Government is awash with consultants in other areas.
Rail division staff in Cardiff Bay are not experts in rail infrastructure, yet handle multi £million contracts.
The last person put in Charge of the redouble on behalf of WG, an employee, was a roads man & is now in Saudi having resigned from WG he visited the Rossett site once.
Some one will have to sort out the mess,which is fast becoming farce.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Some have just retired from Network Rail with vast experience, others are expert in their field and now are self employed, I agree they charge an arm & a leg, but Welsh Government is awash with consultants in other areas.
Rail division staff in Cardiff Bay are not experts in rail infrastructure, yet handle multi £million contracts.
The last person put in Charge of the redouble on behalf of WG, an employee, was a roads man & is now in Saudi having resigned from WG he visited the Rossett site once.
Some one will have to sort out the mess,which is fast becoming farce.

Fair enough....but of course just because WG employs all sorts of expensive consultants in other areas doesn't necessarily mean rail should follow. Having had to work with them in my previous life I find that they are - mostly - an expensive waste of money.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There are good people at DOR who will have a lot less to do shortly...
Consultancies like Steer Davies Gleeve have a good record of developing franchise service specifications.
People like Adrian Shooter might be interested in the franchise letting phase.
Chris Gibb, late of Virgin Trains, used to be MD of Wales & Borders and Wales & West before that.
Ian Walmsley, late of Porterbrook, has Welsh connections and could sort the ROSCOs out.

The trouble is that governments like to hire very expensive global consultants because their views carry extra weight with banks and funders.

 

[merlodlliw]

Fair enough....but of course just because WG employs all sorts of expensive consultants in other areas doesn't necessarily mean rail should follow. Having had to work with them in my previous life I find that they are - mostly - an expensive waste of money.

I too have worked with consultants hired in by HQ, some are a total waste of space, it depends who hires them in and with what experience of hiring experts for rail at WG, Some consultants are hired in because of a recommendation or are friends of friends.
Give the consultants a good interview and judge past records, Chiltern have a good record of hiring in the best. There are some good people at DOR with a good record.
At the moment there is too much chummy going on with NR & WG staff that needs sorting,
It was not rocket science to us to find out WG had paid for infrastructure that would have had to be paid for by NR in a year or two,like 1958 rails, all drivers told us the ride from Wrexham especially between Rossett & Saltney was one of the worst in Wales due to lengths of rail that should have been scrapped years ago. Yet no one in WG picked this up before it was signed off.