Welsh fleet deployment programme rationalised

[Baxenden Bank]

A teaser headline from Railway Gazette International:

Welsh fleet deployment programme rationalised

27 February 2020

UK: Faced with mounting costs from Network Rail to provide gauge clearance services, KeolisAmey has revised its plans to roll out new and refurbished rolling stock across the network it runs under the Transport for Wales Rail Services brand.

Does anyone have any more information. I don't have a subscription or sign-in rights.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's just that the routes for TfW's new stock have been revised to minimise NR clearance costs on the original set of routes.
170s will be limited to Maesteg-Cardiff-Cheltenham and Cardiff-Ebbw Vale.
230s will be limited to Wrexham-Bidston.
769s will be limited to Penarth-Cardiff-Rhymney.

It also says Pacers will go by the end of July, and the class 37/Mk2s on the Rhymney route will go on March 9.
I'm not sure if any of this is new.

 

[Cardiff123]

It's just that the routes for TfW's new stock have been revised to minimise NR clearance costs on the original set of routes.
170s will be limited to Maesteg-Cardiff-Cheltenham and Cardiff-Ebbw Vale.
230s will be limited to Wrexham-Bidston.
769s will be limited to Penarth-Cardiff-Rhymney.

It also says Pacers will go by the end of July, and the class 37/Mk2s on the Rhymney route will go on March 9.
I'm not sure if any of this is new.

No it isn't new, but aren't Keolis Amey still waiting for gauge clearance for the Mk4's on the Marches? The latest issue of Modern Railways confirms that there is still no firm date for when the Mark 4's can be introduced on North to South Wales services due to waiting on gauge clearance by NR.

I'd imagine the commitment to have more loco hauled Mk 4 services between North and South Wales is not one either TfW or the Welsh Govt will be keen to have to roll back on.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I didn't mention the LHCS as there is no change to the plan for Mk4 on Cardiff-Holyhead, with Holyhead-Manchester reverting to DMU when all the Mk4 stock is available.

 

[Class 170101]

No it isn't new, but aren't Keolis Amey still waiting for gauge clearance for the Mk4's on the Marches? The latest issue of Modern Railways confirms that there is still no firm date for when the Mark 4's can be introduced on North to South Wales services due to waiting on gauge clearance by NR.

I'd imagine the commitment to have more loco hauled Mk 4 services between North and South Wales is not one either TfW or the Welsh Govt will be keen to have to roll back on.

NR will be scapegoated for delays

 

[stj]

Would it be cheaper to update more HSTs for the Marches?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would it be cheaper to update more HSTs for the Marches?

Unlikely.

 

[PHILIPE]

Would it be cheaper to update more HSTs for the Marches?

Why ?

 

[Cardiff123]

NR will be scapegoated for delays

Well if NR not gauge clearing the Mk 4's is the reason for the delays to their introduction, NR won't be scapegoated, it'll be a fact that NR are the reason for the delays to their introduction

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Keeping 170s off the HOWL will at least save fuel as they won't be crawling through the countryside at <70mph... but what will run there instead? PRM-ed 153s? 150s?

 

[HSTEd]

Looks like the HOWL itself could be run by 230s and still keep the current schedule.

 

[PHILIPE]

Keeping 170s off the HOWL will at least save fuel as they won't be crawling through the countryside at <70mph... but what will run there instead? PRM-ed 153s? 150s?

The 170s are not due to go there for a couple of years yet and there wouldn't be enough work for them without the routes they are currently working.

 

[Bald Rick]

Well if NR not gauge clearing the Mk 4's is the reason for the delays to their introduction, NR won't be scapegoated, it'll be a fact that NR are the reason for the delays to their introduction

Presumably NR has a clear remit for the work, is contracted to do so, and is being paid accordingly?

 

[Anonymous10]

Will any Welsh Pacers be preserved?

 

[CambrianCoast]

I’d be keen to see them keep the 158s, dunno if they have clearance for the Heart of Wales? If the Mk4s are proving problematic for the Marches, would there be some 185s coming free from TPE at some point? Their amount of power would be great for the route profile of the Marches and could still be maintained at Manchester.

 

[krus_aragon]

I’d be keen to see them keep the 158s, dunno if they have clearance for the Heart of Wales?

Platform clearance issues currently require them to deflate the suspension at at least one station, iirc. Slower door operation may be an issue, that's why ATW was never allowed to use them on the Borderlands, despite them fitting fine.

 

[CambrianCoast]

Platform clearance issues currently require them to deflate the suspension at at least one station, iirc. Slower door operation may be an issue, that's why ATW was never allowed to use them on the Borderlands, despite them fitting fine.

Ahh thanks for the insight! It was just seeing a video of a 6-car Wales and Borders 158 on YouTube back in 2000, made me think.

 

[PHILIPE]

Platform clearance issues currently require them to deflate the suspension at at least one station, iirc. Slower door operation may be an issue, that's why ATW was never allowed to use them on the Borderlands, despite them fitting fine.

158s cannot work in passenger use and have to be locked out. There were two just a couple of weeks ago on a ECS to balance units due to the Marches closed following flooding. A 153 was leading them

 

[krus_aragon]

158s cannot work in passenger use and have to be locked out. There were two just a couple of weeks ago on a ECS to balance units due to the Marches closed following flooding. A 153 was leading them

I presume they were tagging along on a regular service worked by that 153?

 

[PHILIPE]

I presume they were tagging along on a regular service worked by that 153?

No. As a 5Zxx. There had been some Engineering work scheduled along the line but as it was only vegetation clearance and as the line had been affected by flood damage as well, arrangements were made to path and pass the train through. The crew changed over with a 175 movement in the opposite direction. Post #4 here refers:-

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/abergavenny-to-hereford-closure-update.200679/#post-4448342

 

[krus_aragon]

No. As a 5Zxx. There had been some Engineering work scheduled along the line but as it was only vegetation clearance and as the line had been affected by flood damage as well, arrangements were made to path and pass the train through. The crew changed over with a 175 movement in the opposite direction. Post #4 here refers:-

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/abergavenny-to-hereford-closure-update.200679/#post-4448342

Thanks for the clarification. At first I couldn't think of any reason to have coupled them to a 153. By the time I read your reply, it occured to me that the 153 could have been part of the balancing too.

 

[daikilo]

Would it be cheaper to update more HSTs for the Marches?

Yes, the flying banana is cleared and runs. No Mk4 has run on the Marches AFAIK.

That said, no idea on the cost of update of the stock nor driver training. Haven't checked on track access charges.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes, the flying banana is cleared and runs. No Mk4 has run on the Marches AFAIK.
That said, no idea on the cost of update of the stock nor driver training. Haven't checked on track access charges.

It's academic, but I don't think HSTs have ever had regular work north of Hereford (Shelwick Jn)?
Have they ever worked Shrewsbury-Chester?
Crewe-Holyhead/Manchester obviously OK.

 

[krus_aragon]

It's academic, but I don't think HSTs have ever had regular work north of Hereford (Shelwick Jn)?
Have they ever worked Shrewsbury-Chester?
Crewe-Holyhead/Manchester obviously OK.

It appears that a HST did the Marches from Maindee through Hereford and Shrewsbury to Chester back in 1994: https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/90s/921114hr.htm

 

[Skip 10]

No. As a 5Zxx. There had been some Engineering work scheduled along the line but as it was only vegetation clearance and as the line had been affected by flood damage as well, arrangements were made to path and pass the train through. The crew changed over with a 175 movement in the opposite direction. Post #4 here refers:-

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/abergavenny-to-hereford-closure-update.200679/#post-4448342

Other way round to what was referred to in the post.
153314+150241 ex Shrewsbury
153303+158828+158830 making their way to Shrewsbury.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It appears that a HST did the Marches from Maindee through Hereford and Shrewsbury to Chester back in 1994: https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/90s/921114hr.htm

That's a fine day out...

 

[Anonymous10]

Saw one of the red and orange I think 153s today what company was it previously I can't remember but I know it's a temporary one

 

[Cardiff123]

Saw one of the red and orange I think 153s today what company was it previously I can't remember but I know it's a temporary one

East Midlands Trains, now East Midlands Railway
Greater Anglia are the other temporary ones but apart from the black around the windows are pretty much in TfW colours anyway

 

[Anonymous10]

East Midlands Trains, now East Midlands Railway
Greater Anglia are the other temporary ones but apart from the black around the windows are pretty much in TfW colours anyway

I swear I saw from my works door a unit which wasn't in green or white colours

 

[craigybagel]

Would it be cheaper to update more HSTs for the Marches?

Definitely not.

Well if NR not gauge clearing the Mk 4's is the reason for the delays to their introduction, NR won't be scapegoated, it'll be a fact that NR are the reason for the delays to their introduction

NR aren't the only reason for the delays in their introduction. They were meant to be on North Wales - Manchester services by now, temporarily. Train Crew training hasn't started yet as there is still some tweaking taking place to get the sets fully ready for service.

Looks like the HOWL itself could be run by 230s and still keep the current schedule.

The 170s are not due to go there for a couple of years yet and there wouldn't be enough work for them without the routes they are currently working.

Leaving the 170s on their current routes permanently would of course free up the units that are meant to be replacing them in a few years time, brand new Stadler DMUs. I think it's safe to say there's not a chance that those brand new units will go to West Wales and the HOWL whilst Cardiff keeps its much older 170s - so sooner or later the 170s will need clearing for other routes. The emphasis at the moment seems to be on later.

Platform clearance issues currently require them to deflate the suspension at at least one station, iirc. Slower door operation may be an issue, that's why ATW was never allowed to use them on the Borderlands, despite them fitting fine.

Ffrairfach IIRC is the issue, plus they're only allowed on one side of the loop at one of the passing places (I think llandovery). 158s would be ideal units for the HOWL in the long term, if those issues could be dealt with (and I see no reason why they couldn't) but until we hear otherwise, we must assume the plan is still for the line to get 170s eventually. I wouldn't worry too much about the issues with running 170s at low speeds - aside from the fact they get a decent enough dash back on the mainline at each end of the route (including a maximum of 90mph which should be achievable between Church Stretton and Shrewsbury northbound) they'll be mixed in with other services throughout West Wales and Crewe - Shrewsbury locals (where again 90mph should be just about achievable, albeit briefly).