Wellglade Group

[station_road]

From that article - I think we can guess most of the routes!

Services linking communities with major employment areas, universities and hospitals would benefit. Alongside the Nottinghamshire locations, the report names Mickleover, Allestree, Littleover, Little Eaton, Alfreton, Ripley, Heanor and Ilkeston. It does not specify individual routes or how the 82 buses would be allocated.

 

[YX73OUB]

Suprized suttons not included

We've had our once in a decade investment

 

[psmith2023]

We've had our once in a decade investment

Good point plus electrics won't be suitable for the 3s or the 9s

 

[Trainman40083]

We've had our once in a decade investment

I know plenty of Enviro 200MMCs you are welcome to.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 18:26 ==

Good point plus electrics won't be suitable for the 3s or the 9s

I'd say any route where the whole daily diagram is less than 180 miles is possible. Odd they mentioned Little Eaton. Maybe they meant Long Eaton.

 

[psmith2023]

Yeah or little eaten for comet

 

[Trainman40083]

Yeah or little eaten for comet

Surely you'd say Chesterfield, unless they expect it to expire.

 

[Teapot42]

What would you have then? Because from my perspective, we have two bus manufacturers with their own quite decent offerings supporting British jobs and industry, or we could go down the mentality of 'everything we do must be crap, we'll buy other countries products',

You've only got to look up the road to Chesterfield to see just how well the 'quite decent offering' from ADL is stacking up against Yutong. While the E400EVs have had constant and ongoing problems, the Yutongs seem to have rarely missed a beat. It's rare not to have 2 or 3 E400EVs not available on any one day, and likewise have 1 or 2 not make it through the day, while it's highly unusual not to see the full Yutong fleet out from early to late.

Someone will probably claim that anti-competition rules prevent this, but what really should have happened is rather than Zebra funding being handed out at random, ADL and Wright should have been given a pot to go towards development of electric vehicles, on the basis that they'd provide x vehicles to UK operators at no more than the cost of a diesel. As it stands, they can't compete on price with Yutong, and by trying to do so, the quality of the product is lacking.

We need to take a leaf out of the Chinese book, and fund the development of local suppliers rather than always just looking at the lowest purchase price, as there is a much bigger picture out there.

 

[citybus2500]

An interesting read

Trentbarton seeks £28.7m for 82 electric buses and three depot upgrades | West Bridgford Wire

Trentbarton is seeking £28.7 million in public funding towards a £55.6 million programme to replace 82 diesel buses with electric vehicles and upgrade three

westbridgfordwire.com

They want giving over 50% of the cost?

That's a bit of a way off the mark for such grants and I would suggest not best value for the tax payer.

 

[Mugby]

Does the article mean that Manvers Street Depot, Nottingham is leased from Nottingham City Council? I never knew that!

 

[cnjb8]

An interesting read

Trentbarton seeks £28.7m for 82 electric buses and three depot upgrades | West Bridgford Wire

Trentbarton is seeking £28.7 million in public funding towards a £55.6 million programme to replace 82 diesel buses with electric vehicles and upgrade three

westbridgfordwire.com

It would be interesting if the Combined Authority accepted this in full, surely its more likely if Trent did receive funding it would be for one depot rather than three?

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

The golden rule for enthusiasts up and down the country is that they are never happy and the operator should have bought the type they didn’t buy

If they buy wright it’s junk they should have bought ADL
If they buy ADL it’s junk they should have bought wright
If they buy either they should have bought Yutong or BYD
If they buy those they should have bought british

Tell me I’m wrong

Absolutely correct!

What would you have then? Because from my perspective, we have two bus manufacturers with their own quite decent offerings supporting British jobs and industry, or we could go down the mentality of 'everything we do must be crap, we'll buy other countries products', which in this day and age basically means Chinese. And I'd argue that there's security risks associated with buying any technology from there, and in these volatile times it makes sense to be as self sufficient as we can.

I've lost count of the number of times I've read that ADL electric products have been withdrawn for repairs/checks/warranty work.
In contrast Yutongs just seem to work.
As a bus company manager would you buy the cheaper product that works or the more expensive British product that loves to sit over your pits?

I can't really comment on the Wright GB Kite because for whatever reason not many people outside First seem to be interested in it.
Streetdeck Electroliners seem to be doing okay, but I can't imagine Trent Barton going back to double deckers.

 

[YX73OUB]

Does the article mean that Manvers Street Depot, Nottingham is leased from Nottingham City Council? I never knew that!

Correct

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 02:15 ==

It would be interesting if the Combined Authority accepted this in full, surely its more likely if Trent did receive funding it would be for one depot rather than three?

I see what you are saying but obviously the only way all mentioned routes would benefit would be if 3 depots were electrified - which is something that is going to have to happen anyway, in time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 02:17 ==

Good point plus electrics won't be suitable for the 3s or the 9s

But one would argue that connect & 90'which have both been supported by various partnerships including EMCCA would be natural choices for electric, just my opinion.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 02:21 ==

Someone will probably claim that anti-competition rules prevent this, but what really should have happened is rather than Zebra funding being handed out at random, ADL and Wright should have been given a pot to go towards development of electric vehicles, on the basis that they'd provide x vehicles to UK operators at no more than the cost of a diesel. As it stands, they can't compete on price with Yutong, and by trying to do so, the quality of the product is lacking.

This is a really interesting and good point; it might have even encouraged the likes of Volvo, Scania, Merc, Switch Mobility and custom denning along with BYD, Yutong, wright and ADL to 'fight it out' for the best product. I also think it would've been a better use of tax payers cash if done properly.

 

[SSmith2009]

I can't really comment on the Wright GB Kite because for whatever reason not many people outside First seem to be interested in it.
Streetdeck Electroliners seem to be doing okay, but I can't imagine Trent Barton going back to double deckers.

the First GB kites in Leicester are okay and arriva have a growing number of them around the UK too including 50+ due to Leicester shortly.

 

[Trainman40083]

I note a KEY set of words in the announcement. "When and if, connections can be made to the grid". You can't just tap into the electricity main. There has to be the power to support the added demand, else there may be a bang and it all goes off. I know a few people who have found that, whilst they can get electric vehicles , the actual grid connection was TWO years late. So you have the embarrassment of a yard full of bright shiny new buses and few means to charge them. York City Council made the news a few years ago, with their fleet of vans. Several London bus operators have had the problem....given tight depot space, just where do you put all the buses? I guess with older leased ones, they end up in an Ensign field and...

 

[citybus2500]

Good point plus electrics won't be suitable for the 3s or the 9s

Why aren't electrics suitable for the 3s or the 9s?

 

[Trainman40083]

Why aren't electrics suitable for the 3s or the 9s?

Check the daily mileage the buses run, I would think. Like Skylink Derby, some turns can be up to 500 miles. You'd be changing buses over every few runs. Ideal is around 180 miles a day.

 

[citybus2500]

Check the daily mileage the buses run, I would think. Like Skylink Derby, some turns can be up to 500 miles. You'd be changing buses over every few runs. Ideal is around 180 miles a day.

Skylink Derby isn't the 3 or the 9.

180 miles ideal is nonsense. If you buy the right EVs, you can cover 300 miles on a single charge.

 

[Trainman40083]

Skylink Derby isn't the 3 or the 9.

180 miles ideal is nonsense. If you buy the right EVs, you can cover 300 miles on a single charge.

Okay...Take a 9.1. Mansfield to Derby is 23.4 miles, direct by the A38. So add some miles as the service doesn't go all the way by the A38. Let's say it is 28 miles each way (our Sutton drivers will know) Ten single trips equals 280 miles. Add in some dead mileage to and from the depot. Add in weather conditions hot or cold using loads for heat or air-conditioning. Add a full load and lots of stop starting. You maybe CAN get 300 miles on a single charge, maybe you wouldn't risk it. Take that Nines that was stuck on the A38 the other day, for four hours. Would that have had enough power? Then over time, they say batteries deteriorated to 80% capacity. Do you then replace the batteries or the bus?

 

[Hyebone]

This is where dedicated route branding starts to show its issues.

My favourite example to use is Chesterfield (slightly biased maybe.) We have Enviro400EVs running our X17 route; fast up the bypass and motorway on some stretches. This absolutely hammers the batteries. To solve this issue, X17 buses change to lesser-intensive routes such as the 43 to allow more mileage per bus per day, and vice versa with 43 buses changing onto X17s to take their place. Obviously, this won't work with Trent routes as I doubt they are parting with route branding anytime soon! It would be odd seeing a Nines bus on the Connect or something like that...

 

[citybus2500]

Okay...Take a 9.1. Mansfield to Derby is 23.4 miles, direct by the A38. So add some miles as the service doesn't go all the way by the A38. Let's say it is 28 miles each way (our Sutton drivers will know) Ten single trips equals 280 miles. Add in some dead mileage to and from the depot. Add in weather conditions hot or cold using loads for heat or air-conditioning. Add a full load and lots of stop starting. You maybe CAN get 300 miles on a single charge, maybe you wouldn't risk it. Take that Nines that was stuck on the A38 the other day, for four hours. Would that have had enough power? Then over time, they say batteries deteriorated to 80% capacity. Do you then replace the batteries or the bus?

300 miles is what they consider planned mileage. There is a 15-20% reserve on that, so 280 miles not a problem. There is nothing unique about stopping and starting, having lights on or running air conditioning. All covered. But if you are still worried, add an extra battery and lift the range to 375 miles. You can do that.

Different purchase options cover the life of the batteries. A contract can stipulate a minimum capacity for the bus and as this is reached a battery may well need to be replaced by whoever you have the agreement with.

I'm not sure how being stationary for 4 hours worsens range . . . .

 

[psmith2023]

Check the daily mileage the buses run, I would think. Like Skylink Derby, some turns can be up to 500 miles. You'd be changing buses over every few runs. Ideal is around 180 miles a day.

If Trent used connect buses on electric a charging point would have install at hucknall park and ride as with a spare charged up bus as you would need to switch buses after 5 round trips

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 10:59 ==

If Trent used connect buses on electric a charging point would have install at hucknall park and ride as with a spare charged up bus as you would need to switch buses after 5 round trips

And on 3 route it's a long route plus traffic is pretty bad from top valley to Nottingham buses regularly late

 

[Trainman40083]

This is where dedicated route branding starts to show its issues.

My favourite example to use is Chesterfield (slightly biased maybe.) We have Enviro400EVs running our X17 route; fast up the bypass and motorway on some stretches. This absolutely hammers the batteries. To solve this issue, X17 buses change to lesser-intensive routes such as the 43 to allow more mileage per bus per day, and vice versa with 43 buses changing onto X17s to take their place. Obviously, this won't work with Trent routes as I doubt they are parting with route branding anytime soon! It would be odd seeing a Nines bus on the Connect or something like that...

You've just highlighted a negative of route branding nicely.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 11:07 ==

If Trent used connect buses on electric a charging point would have install at hucknall park and ride as with a spare charged up bus as you would need to switch buses after 5 round trips

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 10:59 ==


And on 3 route it's a long route plus traffic is pretty bad from top valley to Nottingham buses regularly late

So, that sounds like you replace 5 diesel buses with 6 electric buses. More depot space, maintenance,tax etc. An added cost to be taken off any cost benefit. But it would work if you had a suitable changeover point to swap buses.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 11:28 ==

300 miles is what they consider planned mileage. There is a 15-20% reserve on that, so 280 miles not a problem. There is nothing unique about stopping and starting, having lights on or running air conditioning. All covered. But if you are still worried, add an extra battery and lift the range to 375 miles. You can do that.

Different purchase options cover the life of the batteries. A contract can stipulate a minimum capacity for the bus and as this is reached a battery may well need to be replaced by whoever you have the agreement with.

I'm not sure how being stationary for 4 hours worsens range . . . .

The stationary in traffic, may not be a concern. But the bus had heating and lighting on. Stuck in traffic. Maybe those two things don't drain the power at all.

 

[Hyebone]

You've just highlighted a negative of route branding nicely.

It's why you don't see X17 branded buses anymore.

EV technology will only get better in time; It'll not be long before buses can do 500+ miles on a single night of charge.

 

[Trainman40083]

It's why you don't see X17 branded buses anymore.

EV technology will only get better in time; It'll not be long before buses can do 500+ miles on a single night of charge.

Any business, and route. Flexibility. Against some operators "Sorry your bus isn't running because we haven't got one in the right colour".

 

[Mr TrainGuy]

In my opinion, modern ADLs leave a lot to be desired in terms of quality compared to Yutongs of the same age. Yes, while it supports British businesses, if the quality is sub-optimal for operators, they will undoubtedly seek alternatives. It certainly isn't a good sign where ADL have closed (or are considering closing) a whole factory in Falkirk... Yutong have proven themselves in the UK as a good manufacturer, so what is deterring operators from purchasing them? Using Kinchbus as an example, I have noticed far fewer of the Yutongs being off the road due to faults compared to the ADLs which are half a year (or so) older... yes you have the consideration of mileage and road conditions etc. which will definitely be factors.. but with the way the duties are laid out, a Yutong is more than capable of staying out a whole day running on the 2/3/9 rota, so I think for the most part (apart from exceedingly lengthy and intensive routes such as skylink derby), the days of 'the range may not last a whole day' seem to be mostly behind us.

 

[Hyebone]

In my opinion, modern ADLs leave a lot to be desired in terms of quality compared to Yutongs of the same age. Yes, while it supports British businesses, if the quality is sub-optimal for operators, they will undoubtedly seek alternatives.

I couldn't agree more. At the end of the day, bus companies are commercial businesses. They aren't going to invest in a sub-optimal product just because the competition is built in a specific place.