Wellglade Group

YX73OUB · Wednesday at 18:16

713 is on long term loan to Sutton as a replacement for 496

RailUK Forums

Trainman40083 · Wednesday at 18:27

YX73OUB said:
713 is on long term loan to Sutton as a replacement for 496

Quality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 20:41 ==

Did those white , former Red Arrow coaches ever get sold? (82 and 88)

jondr3 · Wednesday at 22:00

ventura56 said:
Does anyone else find TM Travel's decline under Wellglade quite striking?

This was once a 100+ vehicle operation, yet now it's less than half that size and appears increasingly reliant on second hand fleet transfers. In recent years TM Travel has lost a significant amount of work. Most recently, services 9A and 70A transferred to First South Yorkshire from 12 April, while the M44, M45 and M55 moved to SMT Bus & Coach from 26 July

The 218 "Peak Line" is perhaps the best example of missed potential. Around a decade ago there appeared to be genuine ambition for the route, with the refurbished Scania L94 Solar fleet receiving distinctive Peak Line branding, upgraded interiors and next stop announcements. Much of that investment and identity has now disappeared, with only a handful of branded bus stop flags and a small section on the TM Travel website remaining as evidence of what the route once represented (https://www.tmtravel.co.uk/218/)

Likewise, the 30 was once promoted as "Sheffield's Line 30", operating every 20 minutes Monday to Saturday daytime and often carrying standing loads. Today it runs every 30 minutes and passenger numbers appear to have declined to the point where a Solo could probably cope with peak-time demand. Both seem a shadow of their former selves today.

With South Yorkshire franchising on the horizon, what do people think TM Travel's future looks like? Could franchising provide stability, or is the operator destined to continue shrinking?

I feel TM aren't going to survive the next few years and they'll be lucky if franchising saves them. Unreliable services and a lack of direction within the company have definitely put people off from using their buses. Wellglade just seem to use the TM brand as a dumping ground for buses that are redundant from the sister fleets and the only recent investment they've had is two new Streetlites.

liamf656 · Thursday at 02:13

jondr3 said:
I feel TM aren't going to survive the next few years and they'll be lucky if franchising saves them. Unreliable services and a lack of direction within the company have definitely put people off from using their buses. Wellglade just seem to use the TM brand as a dumping ground for buses that are redundant from the sister fleets and the only recent investment they've had is two new Streetlites.

Quite - and since Wellglade acquired them way back in 2010 they have been treated to just 6 brand new buses (in 2013 and 2015)! It's a shame really as before then they had a smart fleet of buses with regular investment

YX73OUB · Thursday at 04:57

Trainman40083 said:
Quality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 20:41 ==

Did those white , former Red Arrow coaches ever get sold? (82 and 88)

They were still at Langley Mill last week

callum3490 · Thursday at 11:27

Trainman40083 said:
Quality.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 20:41 ==

Did those white , former Red Arrow coaches ever get sold? (82 and 88)

The last post on Odyssey coach sales on facebook on 22nd august said 2 sold 2 remaining.

Trainman40083 · Thursday at 13:46

callum3490 said:
The last post on Odyssey coach sales on facebook on 22nd august said 2 sold 2 remaining.

Saves seeing that advert again, maybe .

zkyx02 · Thursday at 14:20

Trainman40083 said:
Did those white , former Red Arrow coaches ever get sold? (82 and 88)

where did they all end up? I know 2 are at Littles & 1 was sold to Stanton’s of Stoke, but I can’t say I’m shocked to see these struggling to sell, not the most reliable of Volvos.

Trainman40083 · Thursday at 16:06

zkyx02 said:
where did they all end up? I know 2 are at Littles & 1 was sold to Stanton’s of Stoke, but I can’t say I’m shocked to see these struggling to sell, not the most reliable of Volvos.

Well, you mentioned 3. Sounds like two recently sold and probably the two.Red Arrow ones unsold . Did one or two end up with an operator in the Southern Counties? I'm sure I have seen a picture of one in white ... Hampshire/Sussex area.

38291018 · Thursday at 20:52

According to bustimes edit history and the images given on the edit, 716 is now been renumbered 9314 and had the vinal applied to the paint now
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3

Trainman40083 · Thursday at 21:25

38291018 said:
According to bustimes edit history and the images given on the edit, 716 is now been renumbered 9314 and had the vinal applied to the paint now
Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3

Wonder what the white coach to the left is?

Qwerty133 · Thursday at 21:37

Trainman40083 said:
Wonder what the white coach to the left is?

One of the ex red arrow Scanias which have been recently advertised for sale in stock white (tyres not included).

derbybusdepot · Thursday at 21:38

Trainman40083 said:
Wonder what the white coach to the left is?

76 (FJ10 OXS), last with TM

Trainman40083 · Thursday at 21:39

Qwerty133 said:
One of the ex red arrow Scanias which have been recently advertised for sale in stock white (tyres not included).

Ah right. There are only two in white. 72 is at Chequers Road, so probably 76 from TM Travel. Think 74 has replaced it . I guess the group must lease the tyres.

YX73OUB · Friday at 03:55

Trainman40083 said:
Ah right. There are only two in white. 72 is at Chequers Road, so probably 76 from TM Travel. Think 74 has replaced it . I guess the group must lease the tyres.

They do, a deal with Michelin.

Trainman40083 · Friday at 09:09

YX73OUB said:
They do, a deal with Michelin.

My memory hasn't totally faded yet then.

py_megapixel · Friday at 09:14

Out of curiosity how does selling a bus without tyres physically work? Does the buyer have to arrange to have their own tyres fitted on the seller's premises?

Trainman40083 · Friday at 09:20

py_megapixel said:
Out of curiosity how does selling a bus without tyres physically work? Does the buyer have to arrange to have their own tyres fitted on the seller's premises?

Visions of a bus being dragged along the road with no wheels. Maybe they have to buy them from the tyre provider. At one point, only the tyre company could touch the tyres, when they needed work.

TR673 · Friday at 09:58

py_megapixel said:
Out of curiosity how does selling a bus without tyres physically work? Does the buyer have to arrange to have their own tyres fitted on the seller's premises?

The cost of the tyres is calculated based on age/wear and added onto the price of the bus so they get sold with it. Depending on how good the tyres are, it could be a couple of £K or-so.

Presumably the contract between the tyre provider and the operator deals with how the price is calculated and the cost passed on once the vehicle is sold.

Dwarfer1979 · Friday at 15:32

TR673 said:
The cost of the tyres is calculated based on age/wear and added onto the price of the bus so they get sold with it. Depending on how good the tyres are, it could be a couple of £K or-so.

Presumably the contract between the tyre provider and the operator deals with how the price is calculated and the cost passed on once the vehicle is sold.

Or, if the tyres fitted are new and in good condition the operator & tyre supplier may swap them out an older set (which would reduce the cost to the purchaser). The important point in this is that, if the operator has a tyre contract, then they do not own the tyres and so can't sell them as they remain the property of the tyre company throughout their life and are often refurbished and recut to allow them to be reused more than once before they need to be properly disposed of through recycling.

Trainman40083 · Friday at 15:59

Dwarfer1979 said:
Or, if the tyres fitted are new and in good condition the operator & tyre supplier may swap them out an older set (which would reduce the cost to the purchaser). The important point in this is that, if the operator has a tyre contract, then they do not own the tyres and so can't sell them as they remain the property of the tyre company throughout their life and are often refurbished and recut to allow them to be reused more than once before they need to be properly disposed of through recycling.

Yes, these days there is a cost of disposal.

callum3490 · 2026-09-07T11:45:29+0100

718 is tracking on the X38 today - can anyone confirm it is actually 7-8 back out and not a mistrack?

Both 841 and 842 are also tracking on harlequin as well.

43055 · 2026-09-07T11:55:08+0100

callum3490 said:
718 is tracking on the X38 today - can anyone confirm it is actually 7-8 back out and not a mistrack?

Both 841 and 842 are also tracking on harlequin as well.

718 is indeed back.

Trainman40083 · 2026-09-07T13:03:24+0100

callum3490 said:
718 is tracking on the X38 today - can anyone confirm it is actually 7-8 back out and not a mistrack?

Both 841 and 842 are also tracking on harlequin as well.

Here it is..Heading off to do.a.X38

A need to attend the Royal Hospital today...I can say that Enviro 400 , 14 and Enviro 200 , 51 bounce well on Burton Road. Inbound even had the delights of a divert via St Alban's Road, Louvain Road and Farley Road to avoid the roadworks on the ring road.

callum3490 · 2026-09-07T16:09:36+0100

43055 said:
718 is indeed back.

Trainman40083 said:
Here it is..Heading off to do.a.X38

A need to attend the Royal Hospital today...I can say that Enviro 400 , 14 and Enviro 200 , 51 bounce well on Burton Road. Inbound even had the delights of a divert via St Alban's Road, Louvain Road and Farley Road to avoid the roadworks on the ring road.

That only took 7 months to get back on the road, at least it’ll free up a spare over at derby now though.

Has it had an engine rebuild or have they sourced a replacement?

Trainman40083 · 2026-09-07T16:10:46+0100

callum3490 said:
That only took 7 months to get back on the road, at least it’ll free up a spare over at derby now though.

Has it had an engine rebuild or have they sourced a replacement?

Makes me wonder. Maybe it had both.

Simon75 · 2026-09-08T15:50:43+0100

Spoke to a driver on the 'Swift ' ( Derby to Uttoxeter), he says new buses on the service are due 'soon'

Trainman40083 · 2026-09-08T16:47:50+0100

Simon75 said:
Spoke to a driver on the 'Swift ' ( Derby to Uttoxeter), he says new buses on the service are due 'soon'

Well "newer", surely. Two of them (Sixes Versas) have only just come out of service, so for a decent refurbishment, surely they would be weeks away.

StavBered · 2026-09-08T17:05:11+0100

Simon75 said:
Spoke to a driver on the 'Swift ' ( Derby to Uttoxeter), he says new buses on the service are due 'soon'

I've always wondered how the "soon" due versas will handle the route, it has a lot of rough roads (that make you bounce around even in a volvo) and especially that one sharp turn in Denstone. I am fully aware that occasionally, versas are used on the swift.

However, on bustimes.org, I've seen journeys in Denstone towards Uttoxeter where drivers supposedly skip the turn before the sharp left entirely and take the next right, as if the bus was heading for Derby and serve it the wrong way, take two rights and head to Uttoxeter as normal. Other journey seem to be completely normal.

(1st screenshot is the "diverted" route and the second one is the normal route, both services completed by versa 847)

Trainman40083 · 2026-09-08T17:34:57+0100

Versa 836 (ex Sixes) does appear to have been painted in Swift green..A further Volvo destined for the training fleet, is 725. That has a green back.

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