Wellglade Group

[Hyebone]

724 is in the ESU department at Langley Mill.

What is ESU?

 

[swinny1990]

What is ESU?

Whats 724 having done to it ?

 

[Trainman40083]

What is ESU?

Engineering Support Unit? The works

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Dec 2025 ==

Arguably red arrows are only doing well because its a brand new fleet and it has a dedicated branded spare. Prior to the upgrade it was suffering too

Any route with brand new vehicles is bound to do well (even kinchs skylink fleet seem to be holding up well with the exception of 341).

I remember walking past Meadow Road depot in Derby. It certainly wasn't unusual to see up to 6 of the Red Arrow Volvo coaches off the road. There was only so many spares to cover all the services. I'm sure that now the new coaches have gone on the road, passenger numbers have returned (or will return) to what they were.

 

[ceo of 741]

Well it looks like 741 har re entered service and it has a new roof at the front

 

[callum3490]

Well it looks like 741 har re entered service and it has a new roof at the front

It was said earlier in this thread that it was having a front end rebuild due to a bad leak into the drivers cabin area

 

[ceo of 741]

It was said earlier in this thread that it was having a front end rebuild due to a bad leak into the drivers cabin area

Yeah it did

 

[Lyle_Lanley]

From a customer perspective, the new Skylink Derby buses have been an improvement and seem to be well received. That said, some forums say that for this journey purpose, the new buses aren’t fit for purpose. What is meant by this and what would have been a more suitable alternative that is currently on the market?

Similarly, are there plans in place to replace the blue Skylink or Skylink Express fleets?

 

[overthewater]

From a customer perspective, the new Skylink Derby buses have been an improvement and seem to be well received. That said, some forums say that for this journey purpose, the new buses aren’t fit for purpose. What is meant by this and what would have been a more suitable alternative that is currently on the market?

I suspect some people were wanting Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora.

 

[liamf656]

From a customer perspective, the new Skylink Derby buses have been an improvement and seem to be well received. That said, some forums say that for this journey purpose, the new buses aren’t fit for purpose. What is meant by this and what would have been a more suitable alternative that is currently on the market?

Just to answer your bit in bold, the buses used on Skylink are lightweight city buses designed for town work when there are plenty of heavyweight alternatives that would be much more suited to such a demanding service. Think of it like putting a Class 156 on an Intercity service to London

 

[Trainman40083]

Just to answer your bit in bold, the buses used on Skylink are lightweight city buses designed for town work when there are plenty of heavyweight alternatives that would be much more suited to such a demanding service. Think of it like putting a Class 156 on an Intercity service to London

Now you say that, I remember when due to a unit shortage, EMT used a pair of Class 156s on the Kettering to Sheffield service. It was only a couple of minutes late leaving Derby. A Class 158, albeit a faster unit, would have had a severe spewed restriction. As for Skylink. A highly demanding 24/7 service is always going to shag out whatever bus is used. Last time I rode it it was Citaros, now with McGills in Glasgow

 

[SSmith2009]

From a customer perspective, the new Skylink Derby buses have been an improvement and seem to be well received. That said, some forums say that for this journey purpose, the new buses aren’t fit for purpose. What is meant by this and what would have been a more suitable alternative that is currently on the market?

Similarly, are there plans in place to replace the blue Skylink or Skylink Express fleets?

They are okay just E200mmcs are not suited to the express nature of Skylink as they will be run ragged and need replacing in a few years

GB hawks or Evoras would definitely have been a better option IMO.

 

[BULLSAREMAGIC]

City buses or not Trentbarton are by no means the only operator using them on longer distance/express services.
With Trentbartons current well documented difficulties in keeping vehicles on the road any new types will require engineering training plus new spares etc so perhaps understandable they have stuck to the familiar however suitable or unsuitable

 

[liamf656]

City buses or not Trentbarton are by no means the only operator using them on longer distance/express services.
With Trentbartons current well documented difficulties in keeping vehicles on the road any new types will require engineering training plus new spares etc so perhaps understandable they have stuck to the familiar however suitable or unsuitable

I get your point, however it shouldn't really be a one size fits all approach. Look at the Versas on the Sixes. Once great buses but now extremely unreliable due to the challenging nature of such a service. It won't be long until these Skylink E200s are plagued with the same issues their predecessors (and even the Citaros) had. Even going the other way, the heavyweight powerful Volvos that Mickleover and Route 15 had were unreliable because of the constant stop start nature of both services, and were soon redeployed on more demanding routes which were better for them

 

[BULLSAREMAGIC]

Makes you realise how good Bartons leopards were. I drove them over thousands of miles on town/inter urban and express service(often the same vehicle) problem free.

 

[joieman]

Just to answer your bit in bold, the buses used on Skylink are lightweight city buses designed for town work when there are plenty of heavyweight alternatives that would be much more suited to such a demanding service. Think of it like putting a Class 156 on an Intercity service to London

The other problem is that the Skylink is still routinely overcrowded.

 

[Trainman40083]

I get your point, however it shouldn't really be a one size fits all approach. Look at the Versas on the Sixes. Once great buses but now extremely unreliable due to the challenging nature of such a service. It won't be long until these Skylink E200s are plagued with the same issues their predecessors (and even the Citaros) had. Even going the other way, the heavyweight powerful Volvos that Mickleover and Route 15 had were unreliable because of the constant stop start nature of both services, and were soon redeployed on more demanding routes which were better for them

Very true. I think the Volvos are starting to show, they won't last much longer. You'd think they would be the next buses to be replaced....but one might also suggest the Solos and Versas are well past their best. In most cases, a Volvo gets back to the start point. Solos and Versas just pack up in random places. As you say, the new Skylinks will probably need to be cascaded to lesser routes in about 4 years and be replaced again. By what is another matter, as diesel engines fade into history.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Dec 2025 ==

The other problem is that the Skylink is still routinely overcrowded.

Is that over the full route, or part route? If it is that overcrowded, will it remain part of the fare cap? If a route is full and possibly profitable, why subsidise it?

 

[SSmith2009]

Is that over the full route, or part route? If it is that overcrowded, will it remain part of the fare cap? If a route is full and possibly profitable, why subsidise it?

the Leicester to Loughborough section is busy as arriva 127 is unreliable and takes nearly an hour (sometimes more) to run between them both while skylink does it in 30-40 mins and runs at a slightly better frequency.

Quite a few use it from Leicester to EMA Gateway for work too.

 

[Trainman40083]

With talk of overworked Skylink Enviro 200MMCs, I had a look at recent MOT data, specifically mileage. Two buses YX20 OHN and YX20 OHN. One Skylink, one Rainbow One. At face value, the Skylink bus has already done about 130,000 more miles 270k v 396k

 

[joieman]

With talk of overworked Skylink Enviro 200MMCs, I had a look at recent MOT data, specifically mileage. Two buses YX20 OHN and YX20 OHN. One Skylink, one Rainbow One. At face value, the Skylink bus has already done about 130,000 more miles 270k v 396k

You've put OHN twice

 

[Trainman40083]

You've put OHN twice

Typical. OHN v OJN

 

[ceo of 741]

Something wrong with 496 been off the road since 18/9

 

[Davidsb3]

Something wrong with 496 been off the road since 18/9

Last i heard parked up at Langley Mill after being repaired and swapped when 495 came to derby

 

[Trainman40083]

Last i heard parked up at Langley Mill after being repaired and swapped when 495 came to derby

Passed its MOT on 12th September though... Several of the Solo SRs were off about the same time.

 

[ceo of 741]

Passed its MOT on 12th September though... Several of the Solo SRs were off about the same time.

Might be back on the road soon

 

[Mugby]

The other problem is that the Skylink is still routinely overcrowded.

It's exceptionally busy at present in the run up to Christmas with distribution workers to and from East Midlands Gateway and other locations.

Standing loads are a regular thing.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

They are okay just E200mmcs are not suited to the express nature of Skylink as they will be run ragged and need replacing in a few years

GB hawks or Evoras would definitely have been a better option IMO.

As a premium route they seem to have been replacing the buses on it every 5-years anyway (2009 Volvos, 2014 Citaros, 2020 MMCs & 2025 MMCs) so they appear to be planning on replacing in a few years anyway.

the Leicester to Loughborough section is busy as arriva 127 is unreliable and takes nearly an hour (sometimes more) to run between them both while skylink does it in 30-40 mins and runs at a slightly better frequency.

Quite a few use it from Leicester to EMA Gateway for work too.

I would say it is more that as the Skylink has strengthened the Leicester to EMA service the by-product is it has been winning much of the Leicester to Loughborough market that Arriva used to have (and due to the remoteness of both stations from the core of the respective centres it is a busier corridor than it would otherwise be) as it runs non-stop up the A6 so was substantially faster leading to Arriva cutting back frequency which then pushes more people onto Skylink (& so on) - though Arriva being bad at dealing with competition undoubtedly contributed to this as well.

The Skylink is a very well designed service, in that it has stitched together multiple overlapping passenger flows allowing them to provide a better service than any of these flows could support alone but by doing so it has generated more growth which begins a virtuous circle of growth all built on initial funding support from the Airport and the growth of warehouses and distribution centres around it.

Is that over the full route, or part route? If it is that overcrowded, will it remain part of the fare cap? If a route is full and possibly profitable, why subsidise it?

The point of the fare cap funding is to make up the loss of charging less than a commercial fare and the Skylink has a lot of long distance traffic who are seeing major discounts - it is different to other types of subisdisation. On a route where a large proportion of the passengers are travelling relatively long distances even a full bus at £3 may only be marginally commercial and most trips won't be running that full (it is peak times that see loadings but due to the Airport & warehouses having shift change times different to shops/offices those peak times may be slightly different) so the route as a whole may struggle to remain commercial on that fair level. On a route with mostly local traffic a seat on a full bus may be used 3 times (giving income of £9 an hour) but on a long distance route where passengers may stay on the bus for over an hour that single seat may only bring in £3 an hour.

 

[Trainman40083]

As a premium route they seem to have been replacing the buses on it every 5-years anyway (2009 Volvos, 2014 Citaros, 2020 MMCs & 2025 MMCs) so they appear to be planning on replacing in a few years anyway.

I would say it is more that as the Skylink has strengthened the Leicester to EMA service the by-product is it has been winning much of the Leicester to Loughborough market that Arriva used to have (and due to the remoteness of both stations from the core of the respective centres it is a busier corridor than it would otherwise be) as it runs non-stop up the A6 so was substantially faster leading to Arriva cutting back frequency which then pushes more people onto Skylink (& so on) - though Arriva being bad at dealing with competition undoubtedly contributed to this as well.

The Skylink is a very well designed service, in that it has stitched together multiple overlapping passenger flows allowing them to provide a better service than any of these flows could support alone but by doing so it has generated more growth which begins a virtuous circle of growth all built on initial funding support from the Airport and the growth of warehouses and distribution centres around it.

The point of the fare cap funding is to make up the loss of charging less than a commercial fare and the Skylink has a lot of long distance traffic who are seeing major discounts - it is different to other types of subisdisation. On a route where a large proportion of the passengers are travelling relatively long distances even a full bus at £3 may only be marginally commercial and most trips won't be running that full (it is peak times that see loadings but due to the Airport & warehouses having shift change times different to shops/offices those peak times may be slightly different) so the route as a whole may struggle to remain commercial on that fair level. On a route with mostly local traffic a seat on a full bus may be used 3 times (giving income of £9 an hour) but on a long distance route where passengers may stay on the bus for over an hour that single seat may only bring in £3 an hour.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the fare cap ends in March 2027. Will fares return to commercial levels?

 

[Aethonatic]

Bus stop flags are now being replaced with newer renditions that sport the new branding for The Two, so it shouldn't be too long now.

 

[swinny1990]

Bus stop flags are now being replaced with newer renditions that sport the new branding for The Two, so it shouldn't be too long now.

Any pics

 

[derbybusdepot]

It will be interesting to see what happens when the fare cap ends in March 2027. Will fares return to commercial levels?

Will it make much difference? People who have no other choice than the bus will still have to use it.

Seeing as passenger numbers haven't returned to pre covid levels, you could say the fare caps have had very little effect, and passenger numbers would have returned to current levels anyway as people forget about covid.

Many passengers use weekly or monthly tickets which are already at commercial rates, so what percentage of passengers would scrapping the scheme really effect?