Wellglade Group

[49er]

With the works going on meadow road is still very much a squeeze to get out of in the morning.

715 was on the skylink. Looking at the tracking as the day went on the two vehicles did start to separate and were 30 mins apart again by the evening peak.

And there was me thinking that it was only the Loughborough 5/11/12 where running in tandem seems to be all the rage. This has been going on for months and Kinch show little interest in putting it right. Requests to Kinch/Trent asking why, in most cases, no action is taken are either ignored or brushed aside. Last Friday all four buses on 11/12 were running in tandem - three of them left Swan St within a 3-minute period - 1634-1637, and the 4th vehicle had passed by just 10 minutes before. And, of course, the situation basically rep

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2025 ==

Sorry - reply sent inadvertently before completion... And, of course, the situation basically repeated itself an hour later. That was far from the only case of running in tandem last week. There seems to be a massive blind-spot at Kinch/Trent regarding the passenger experience. Yes, the situation on 9 did improve by evening, but that is little compensation to the daytime passengers. All Kinch needed to do was hold back one of the vehicles that ran from Loughborough at 0918 and 0923. And rest of the day would have been a lot better for intending passengers. But, possibly, that would have meant declaring further 'lost mileage' to the authorities. You can't help thinking that Kinch/Trent are more interest in getting vehicles and drivers running around - and passenger consideration doesn't feature.

 

[Hyebone]

But, possibly, that would have meant declaring further 'lost mileage' to the authorities.

This is what operators seem to be afraid to do.

We've had issues with Stagecoach in Chesterfield loads. 10s running side by side because the traffic office won't let them cancel a trip and wait 10 minutes on Elder Way because they want all the mileage to run.

Perhaps it's an issue with how missed trips are reported to the authorities. There should at least be an option to report lost mileage as being "corrected" due to late running.

 

[SSmith2009]

Kinch 9 is in an absolute mess this morning. One bus down (been nicked for Skylink or the 2) and the other two running in convoy, essentially turning a 30 minute service into a 90 minute one.

the two ending up running in convoy could also be down to traffic diverting away from the incident between Fairham/Clifton and Gotham involving an NCT bus.

 

[Teapot42]

This is what operators seem to be afraid to do.

We've had issues with Stagecoach in Chesterfield loads. 10s running side by side because the traffic office won't let them cancel a trip and wait 10 minutes on Elder Way because they want all the mileage to run.

Perhaps it's an issue with how missed trips are reported to the authorities. There should at least be an option to report lost mileage as being "corrected" due to late running.

This probably warrants a separate thread as it's a wider scope that just Wellglade, but other Stagecoach issues recently include two 43s and a 44 leaving Sheffield within a few minutes of each other on Monday morning. Also, last night there was obviously some issue as the 17:20 and 17:40 X17s left Sheffield within a few minutes, as did the 18:05 and 18:30. The latter case was particularly bad, as the 18:05 is the last direct bus to Matlock but it omitted the Interchange. It works in as a 43, but the last stop (FS3) appears to be beyond the entrance to the Interchange. I'd guess normally they'd loop the block, but in this case it just carried on and missed the origin, leaving passengers who wanted Matlock stranded.

Is there no scope to either skip stops or parts of the route to try and catch up (working with passengers to make sure they aren't inconvenienced)?

Of course, delays also mean missed connections which is another thing there seems no solution to.

 

[Trainman40083]

You can see why so many potential passengers are turned off by public transport. People often highlight "ghost buses" that just vanish. "Not our fault" is the cry, so people just ensure certainty of travel by driving. I would think that the people who check where their bus is, on bustimes, at least have the greatest confidence when a bus will appear. People accept delays , but the goal has to be "when exactly will it turn up?".

 

[Mr TrainGuy]

And there was me thinking that it was only the Loughborough 5/11/12 where running in tandem seems to be all the rage. This has been going on for months and Kinch show little interest in putting it right. Requests to Kinch/Trent asking why, in most cases, no action is taken are either ignored or brushed aside. Last Friday all four buses on 11/12 were running in tandem - three of them left Swan St within a 3-minute period - 1634-1637, and the 4th vehicle had passed by just 10 minutes before. And, of course, the situation basically repeated itself an hour later. That was far from the only case of running in tandem last week. There seems to be a massive blind-spot at Kinch/Trent regarding the passenger experience. Yes, the situation on 9 did improve by evening, but that is little compensation to the daytime passengers. All Kinch needed to do was hold back one of the vehicles that ran from Loughborough at 0918 and 0923. And rest of the day would have been a lot better for intending passengers. But, possibly, that would have meant declaring further 'lost mileage' to the authorities. You can't help thinking that Kinch/Trent are more interest in getting vehicles and drivers running around - and passenger consideration doesn't feature.

Maybe these issues are out of Kinch's control, as mentioned here previously maybe they aren't allowed to 'lose mileage' unless a vehicle is substantially delayed. I reckon their immediate focus won't be to fix the timetables yet (after all, they never seem to be bunched together) but maybe they'll look into it after their Yutongs arrive. I mean, consider 346 on 12s today, between 15.51 and 15.59 it was stuck in traffic between Lemyngton Street and Regent Place, but by relaxing the timetables that much, you'd have to account for 1.5x to 2x the vehicles, which from a business standpoint isn't the most ideal by any means, and by doing that to all the routes that people say 'need more relaxed timetables', you're looking at a significant number of additional vehicles, for which there isn't the depot space/customer demand for! Not to mention, Loughborough Fair is on this week so don't be surprised if the towns run particularly late for 'no reason'!

 

[ceo of 741]

I have just checked on bus times and I’m in shock 703 is on the my15 o wonder why it’s at Langley mill

 

[Mr TrainGuy]

I have just checked on bus times and I’m in shock 703 is on the my15 o wonder why it’s at Langley mill

Recent transfer to LM from Notts in exchange for 147 I think.

 

[ceo of 741]

Ok it’s also showing all of the old data when it was at derby when it was helping out

 

[YX73OUB]

Recent transfer to LM from Notts in exchange for 147 I think.

Correct

 

[Mugby]

Running in tandem is certainly not just a Kinchbus thing and certainly not confined to tendered workings either. In the main fleet I often see Mickleovers running together and last Saturday afternoon I was waiting in Corporation Street Derby for an H1 to Heanor at about 1.15 pm and two arrived together and departed within less than a minute of each other.
Some months ago back in the summer, I actually saw three IFs arrive in Ilkeston simultaneously in mid-afternoon.

 

[joieman]

Running in tandem is certainly not just a Kinchbus thing and certainly not confined to tendered workings either. In the main fleet I often see Mickleovers running together and last Saturday afternoon I was waiting in Corporation Street Derby for an H1 to Heanor at about 1.15 pm and two arrived together and departed within less than a minute of each other.
Some months ago back in the summer, I actually saw three IFs arrive in Ilkeston simultaneously in mid-afternoon.

Nor is it exclusively a Wellglade thing given that this evening I was on one of two buses on the Arriva service 127 that began running in tandem by the time I got to Loughborough.

 

[Trainman40083]

Nor is it exclusively a Wellglade thing given that this evening I was on one of two buses on the Arriva service 127 that began running in tandem by the time I got to Loughborough.

I'm sure there is a scientific principle.. One runs late, starts picking up its own passengers and some for the bus behind. The second bus gets held up by the first enabling the third to catch up.

 

[Teapot42]

I'm sure there is a scientific principle.. One runs late, starts picking up its own passengers and some for the bus behind. The second bus gets held up by the first enabling the third to catch up.

I can see this happening over a longer route which runs frequently. However, for them to continue in tandem for much of the day would suggest insufficient recovery time at each end.

In the Stagecoach X17 example I gave, part of the reason was down to route variations. As every other X17 extends beyond Sheffield to Barnsley they can either recover time on that section, or lose more time depending where the delay is. That often results in bunching at Sheffield.

 

[joieman]

I'm sure there is a scientific principle.. One runs late, starts picking up its own passengers and some for the bus behind. The second bus gets held up by the first enabling the third to catch up.

I actually made another thread for this kind of observation a while back, where I mentioned that the dynamics can also change with different vehicle types; in the incident I cited, I was on a double-decker bus, but the one in front was a saloon and thus got full sooner, meaning that the bus I was on was having to pick up passengers who would've otherwise boarded the first bus.

 

[43055]

I'm sure there is a scientific principle.. One runs late, starts picking up its own passengers and some for the bus behind. The second bus gets held up by the first enabling the third to catch up.

Exactly this except the Second (on time) but may overtake.

Running in tandem is certainly not just a Kinchbus thing and certainly not confined to tendered workings either. In the main fleet I often see Mickleovers running together and last Saturday afternoon I was waiting in Corporation Street Derby for an H1 to Heanor at about 1.15 pm and two arrived together and departed within less than a minute of each other.
Some months ago back in the summer, I actually saw three IFs arrive in Ilkeston simultaneously in mid-afternoon.

It's not uncommon the Xpress38 running together at the moment with the roadworks on the A38.

 

[Jackoram06]

Running in tandem is certainly not just a Kinchbus thing and certainly not confined to tendered workings either. In the main fleet I often see Mickleovers running together and last Saturday afternoon I was waiting in Corporation Street Derby for an H1 to Heanor at about 1.15 pm and two arrived together and departed within less than a minute of each other.
Some months ago back in the summer, I actually saw three IFs arrive in Ilkeston simultaneously in mid-afternoon.

The Ilkeston flyer happens quite a bit during rush hour I remember when it was the eclipses there was 4 all in Derby bus station at once. When it’s a busy service there’s more time spent at stops but also with the route after Spondon there are many different ways into Derby to avoid traffic so some will catch up or overtake if one’s gone down the bus lane one, on the a52, one over pride park and one round by corporation street. It was annoying but people were glad to see a bus and it helped with capacity as there’d be one in bay 9 and another in bay 10 which was better to get people out of Derby than holding one in Ilkeston to regulate the service because in the evening there’s more people wanting to go from Derby than to it. Mornings were a bit different but drivers always tried to get you there as quick as possible when they were behind schedule.

 

[Trainman40083]

Exactly this except the Second (on time) but may overtake.

It's not uncommon the Xpress38 running together at the moment with the roadworks on the A38.

Didn't they close the A38 northbound, earlier? Gas leak.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2025 ==

The Ilkeston flyer happens quite a bit during rush hour I remember when it was the eclipses there was 4 all in Derby bus station at once. When it’s a busy service there’s more time spent at stops but also with the route after Spondon there are many different ways into Derby to avoid traffic so some will catch up or overtake if one’s gone down the bus lane one, on the a52, one over pride park and one round by corporation street. It was annoying but people were glad to see a bus and it helped with capacity as there’d be one in bay 9 and another in bay 10 which was better to get people out of Derby than holding one in Ilkeston to regulate the service because in the evening there’s more people wanting to go from Derby than to it. Mornings were a bit different but drivers always tried to get you there as quick as possible when they were behind schedule.

Do they still use that bus gate onto Chequers Road. Every time I have been round there, there seems to have been traffic queuing for Costco.

 

[43055]

Didn't they close the A38 northbound, earlier? Gas leak.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2025 ==


Do they still use that bus gate onto Chequers Road. Every time I have been round there, there seems to have been traffic queuing for Costco.

By the sounds of things yes the northbound carriageway was shut around lunchtime. Looking at bus times now 3 of the 5 are almost running together with an Arriva one as well.

 

[Trainman40083]

By the sounds of things yes the northbound carriageway was shut around lunchtime. Looking at bus times now 3 of the 5 are almost running together with an Arriva one as well.

Let betting commence.

 

[Jackoram06]

Didn't they close the A38 northbound, earlier? Gas leak.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Nov 2025 ==


Do they still use that bus gate onto Chequers Road. Every time I have been round there, there seems to have been traffic queuing for Costco.

Yes went down it regularly especially the morning busses that I’d get. When the busses pass eachother if you watch the drivers they’ll either point their hand forward (continue down a52) or to the side (take the bus lane) sometimes if there’s not much traffic it’s quicker to go down the a52 but when it’s queuing from Spondon or just past M&S they’ll usually go down the bus lane too. Red arrow drivers use those signals too I believe

 

[YX73OUB]

Yes went down it regularly especially the morning busses that I’d get. When the busses pass eachother if you watch the drivers they’ll either point their hand forward (continue down a52) or to the side (take the bus lane) sometimes if there’s not much traffic it’s quicker to go down the a52 but when it’s queuing from Spondon or just past M&S they’ll usually go down the bus lane too. Red arrow drivers use those signals too I believe

They certainly do

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes went down it regularly especially the morning busses that I’d get. When the busses pass eachother if you watch the drivers they’ll either point their hand forward (continue down a52) or to the side (take the bus lane) sometimes if there’s not much traffic it’s quicker to go down the a52 but when it’s queuing from Spondon or just past M&S they’ll usually go down the bus lane too. Red arrow drivers use those signals too I believe

The way the BSIP is going, I'd expect a bus lane down the A52 inbound and everyone else in the other lane .

 

[bringiton]

Yutong demo E9L, YE74 VGO is back at kinchbus, on campus shuttle today

 

[Trainman40083]

Yutong demo E9L, YE74 VGO is back at kinchbus, on campus shuttle today

Are they short of buses, or familiarising drivers so they can hit the road running.. not literally.

 

[bringiton]

Are they short of buses, or familiarising drivers so they can hit the road running.. not literally.

Familiarising drivers again, but also handy sort term while they are down the odd bus

 

[Trainman40083]

Familiarising drivers again, but also handy sort term while they are down the odd bus

Lot of odd buses lol. Presume tracking as 9998.

 

[bringiton]

Presume tracking as 9998.

yeah it is

Lot of odd buses lol.

Well hopefully when the yutongs are all in service there will be less

 

[Trainman40083]

yeah it is

Well hopefully when the yutongs are all in service there will be less

Maybe TM Travel will get another Mango Solo SR

 

[bringiton]

Maybe TM Travel will get another Mango Solo SR

yep, seems likely