Wellglade Group

[m79900]

I have been thinking about Trent Barton's Comet route lately, and it has given me a possible suggestion for buses going into Chesterfield. What if The Comet ran into Clay Cross Bus Station on the way back from Derby instead of using the full southern path of the A61?

What do you mean by that? If it served the bus station, it'd still use the A61. It'd just add time to the journey.

 

[derbybusdepot]

I have been thinking about Trent Barton's Comet route lately, and it has given me a possible suggestion for buses going into Chesterfield. What if The Comet ran into Clay Cross Bus Station on the way back from Derby instead of using the full southern path of the A61?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2025 ==


I am surprised about this change happening, as I thought The Mickleover would still be every 10 minutes.

The old mickleovers seem quite knackered after less than 10 years on mickleover. 104 is off needing attention, and mot has expired, despite it sitting idle for months.

They'll need more spares at Derby, as they still struggle to cover all the workings now, before pvr increase.

Sixes Versas seem to be a problem still, that drains a lot of the spare bus resource. Red arrow is much improved, but let's be honest it's been a long time coming.

Seem to be short on villager today, bus missing all day yesterday? At least x38 had a full allocation. Still say they are trying to run more than they are capable of, and it's not really acceptable. IF we had an effective way of regulating services the increased frequency on mickleover would be refused.

 

[43055]

The old mickleovers seem quite knackered after less than 10 years on mickleover. 104 is off needing attention, and mot has expired, despite it sitting idle for months.

They'll need more spares at Derby, as they still struggle to cover all the workings now, before pvr increase.

Sixes Versas seem to be a problem still, that drains a lot of the spare bus resource. Red arrow is much improved, but let's be honest it's been a long time coming.

Seem to be short on villager today, bus missing all day yesterday? At least x38 had a full allocation. Still say they are trying to run more than they are capable of, and it's not really acceptable. IF we had an effective way of regulating services the increased frequency on mickleover would be refused.

305 lasted until about 0930 on Monday but then struggled to cover since then the the diagram missing for the rest of Monday and yesterday. They tried to cover with 269 and 735 on Tuesday but both were later on the swift. Still at least 703 was on the X38 all 3 days where there is another 8 buses an hour or get 704 and 740 back.

It does seem the sixes is really struggling though as earlier in the week it looked like half the branded Versas were not tracking.

 

[m79900]

It does seem the sixes is really struggling though as earlier in the week it looked like half the branded Versas were not tracking.

The Sixes is a bit of a dilemma. The Versas don't cope too well with it, and several spares are needed daily. So new buses? MMCs would likely be just as bad later on, Volvo Evoras would be ideal since they're more heavyweight, however as has been pointed out on here, it isn't profitable enough to warrant brand new vehicles. Volvos could be cascaded from the X38 and Keyworth, but this might be seen as a retrograde step. They're 16/17 years old after all. If the Two gets new buses, the Sixes could take the 65 plate B8s, there's the right number, but these seem to have problems as well.

What should be done?

 

[Trainman40083]

The old mickleovers seem quite knackered after less than 10 years on mickleover. 104 is off needing attention, and mot has expired, despite it sitting idle for months.

They'll need more spares at Derby, as they still struggle to cover all the workings now, before pvr increase.

Sixes Versas seem to be a problem still, that drains a lot of the spare bus resource. Red arrow is much improved, but let's be honest it's been a long time coming.

Seem to be short on villager today, bus missing all day yesterday? At least x38 had a full allocation. Still say they are trying to run more than they are capable of, and it's not really acceptable. IF we had an effective way of regulating services the increased frequency on mickleover would be refused.

Old Mickleovers "quite knackered". Yes, for a long time they did keep failing, but now they have 8 buses to cover 6 diagrams. But you say more spares. But that incurs more cost. If you are making healthy profits, you might. If you are just about covering direct costs, probably not

 

[bringiton]

The Sixes is a bit of a dilemma. The Versas don't cope too well with it, and several spares are needed daily. So new buses? MMCs would likely be just as bad later on, Volvo Evoras would be ideal since they're more heavyweight, however as has been pointed out on here, it isn't profitable enough to warrant brand new vehicles. Volvos could be cascaded from the X38 and Keyworth, but this might be seen as a retrograde step. They're 16/17 years old after all. If the Two gets new buses, it could take the B8s, there's the right number, but these seem to have problems as well.

Thing is too, swift and comet will soon require busses to take over the b7s.. b8s seem a likely option for this too given mmcs arent suited to these routes and like you mention, the cost outweight the profits on these routes.

 

[Robertj21a]

The old mickleovers seem quite knackered after less than 10 years on mickleover. 104 is off needing attention, and mot has expired, despite it sitting idle for months.

They'll need more spares at Derby, as they still struggle to cover all the workings now, before pvr increase.

Sixes Versas seem to be a problem still, that drains a lot of the spare bus resource. Red arrow is much improved, but let's be honest it's been a long time coming.

Seem to be short on villager today, bus missing all day yesterday? At least x38 had a full allocation. Still say they are trying to run more than they are capable of, and it's not really acceptable. IF we had an effective way of regulating services the increased frequency on mickleover would be refused.

Totally agree. They've been struggling to provide sufficient buses for a very long time now, hence the X38 fiasco. Once Arriva finally decided to take on all 4 duties on the X38, Wellglade suddenly jumped up, stamped their feet a lot - and promptly found 5 (?) buses to throw at the route. It was/still is a very unprofessional charade from a one-time quality operator that STILL can't supply enough vehicles to maintain their routes.
.

 

[38291018]

Thing is too, swift and comet will soon require busses to take over the b7s.. b8s seem a likely option for this too given mmcs arent suited to these routes and like you mention, the cost outweight the profits on these routes.

Think it was speculation but didn't someone say they was trying to get rid of solos and solo srs and the volvos that will be displaces is enough to replace all ilkeston solo routes?
seems to me there trying to get rid of much needed solos as they don't have enough buses to displace what they are wanting to change and displace for sixes comet swift ilkeston routes (31, 32, 33, 34, 35).

Volvo Evoras would be ideal since they're more heavyweight.

Also don't know what happened with it but didn't trentbarton look into getting evoras at one point but went on a different path probably when they chose MMC's?

 

[Trainman40083]

Think it was speculation but didn't someone say they was trying to get rid of solos and solo srs and the volvos that will be displaces is enough to replace all ilkeston solo routes?
seems to me there trying to get rid of much needed solos as they don't have enough buses to displace what they are wanting to change and displace for sixes comet swift ilkeston routes (31, 32, 33, 34, 35).

Also don't know what happened with it but didn't trentbarton look into getting evoras at one point but went on a different path probably when they chose MMC's?

I thought the only Volvo EvoRa they looked at (now in the Chaserider fleet) was looked at relatively recently, after the last order of 24 plated MMCs had been delivered..

 

[tram21]

Thing is too, swift and comet will soon require busses to take over the b7s.. b8s seem a likely option for this too given mmcs arent suited to these routes and like you mention, the cost outweight the profits on these routes.

They're going to have to get some Evoras at some point, whether it be for a 'profitable' route or not (the Swift had a big frequency increase recently so it may be profitable?).

Lots of smaller firms are buying Evoras, I understand it'll be through loans or similar but I was under the impression trentbarton had quite a lot of money behind it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2025 ==

I thought the only Volvo EvoRa they looked at (now in the Chaserider fleet) was looked at relatively recently, after the last order of 24 plated MMCs had been delivered..

Well there was a rumour some were bought for 'the two' route (which personally I think would work with new MMCs, as its not too demanding) . But I don't know if there's any truth in that.

 

[bringiton]

They're going to have to get some Evoras at some point, whether it be for a 'profitable' route or not (the Swift had a big frequency increase recently so it may be profitable?).

Id think repainting 2 busses wouldn't of cost too much, considering they were apparently suppose to end up going to TM instead..

 

[liamf656]

Well there was a rumour some were bought for 'the two' route (which personally I think would work with new MMCs, as its not too demanding) . But I don't know if there's any truth in that.

They did place an order of MMCs first the Two in 2021, but it got cancelled when COVID hit

 

[derbybusdepot]

I think refurbished Volvos would be fine on sixes. They are refurbishing them for x38, so obviously plan to keep them for a while.

I believe the kinchbus skylink mmcs will be replaced soon, more e200 MMCs so would expect the current buses on there to be cascaded too.

Didn't someone say they couldn't get the seating Trent specified fitted in the Evoras? I would have thought you could, especially if you're placing a sizable order.

 

[liamf656]

Didn't someone say they couldn't get the seating Trent specified fitted in the Evoras? I would have thought you could, especially if you're placing a sizable order.

Trent wanted cantilevered seating, which MCV can't give. Picky, I know

 

[Trainman40083]

Trent wanted cantilevered seating, which MCV can't give. Picky, I know

Can't give or can't be done? If the former, get it done in the UK.

 

[derbybusdepot]

Trent wanted cantilevered seating, which MCV can't give. Picky, I know

If they carry on, and refurbish more Volvos for sixes once the x38s are complete, they could relaunch the sixes route in 2027.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2025 ==

Can't give or can't be done? If the former, get it done in the UK.

Perhaps not compatible somehow, or costs too much extra.

 

[m79900]

Id think repainting 2 busses wouldn't of cost too much, considering they were apparently suppose to end up going to TM instead..

It's not about the cost of repainting buses, its the cost of running them and paying staff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2025 ==

Can't give or can't be done? If the former, get it done in the UK.

Surely it can't be that hard to just rip the MCV seats out and bolt Trent ones in.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2025 ==

 

[Mugby]

What do you mean by that? If it served the bus station, it'd still use the A61. It'd just add time to the journey.

It certainly would add unacceptable extra time to the journey. I seem to recall that the original end to end journey time was about one hour. This was increased when Comet was altered to serve Little Eaton, a poor move in my opinion. It was, at one time, almost a viable alternative to the train, Derby Station is remote from the city centre and at Chesterfield Station it's a horrible walk to the town centre. Increasing Comet's journey time took away some of it's attractiveness.

Serving Clay Cross bus station would be pointless, there aren't any connections there which would be any use to anyone.
The best thing that could happen to Comet would be to speed it up to and from Derby by using the A38 all the way to Ripley. The Little Eaton section could be kept in if there's no other way of serving the village.
Lower Kilburn, Kilburn Toll Bar, Denby and Marehay are already perfectly adequately served by The Nines with 4 buses per hour.
The only problem would be where to stop in Ripley. Making the town user friendly to public transport is virtually impossible and always will be!

 

[derbybusdepot]

It certainly would add unacceptable extra time to the journey. I seem to recall that the original end to end journey time was about one hour. This was increased when Comet was altered to serve Little Eaton, a poor move in my opinion. It was, at one time, almost a viable alternative to the train, Derby Station is remote from the city centre and at Chesterfield Station it's a horrible walk to the town centre. Increasing Comet's journey time took away some of it's attractiveness.

Serving Clay Cross bus station would be pointless, there aren't any connections there which would be any use to anyone.
The best thing that could happen to Comet would be to speed it up to and from Derby by using the A38 all the way to Ripley. The Little Eaton section could be kept in if there's no other way of serving the village.
Lower Kilburn, Kilburn Toll Bar, Denby and Marehay are already perfectly adequately served by The Nines with 4 buses per hour.
The only problem would be where to stop in Ripley. Making the town user friendly to public transport is virtually impossible and always will be!

Comet partially replaced amber line by diverting through Little Eaton. They've had quite a reduction in service through there on the old Alfreton Red in recent years, from 3 buses per hour (hourly amber line, hourly 71, hourly nines (9.2?) to a now 2 hourly service on the notts and derby 71.

Surprised comet still exists, you'd think you'd incorporate it into the nines somehow so that it can be interworked. Think they added Little Eaton to comet simply as it had the running time, hour and half each way was generous, but hourly almost impossible.

I've not looked at timetables, but if I remember rightly nines departures from Derby are not evenly spaced, something that could be improved to make it more user friendly! I wonder if some use comet over nines as it stops in the bus station in Derby.

Of course, pre comet it was red arrow, where it potentially competed with pronto and rainbow 1 for pax from Chesterfield/Alfreton/Ripley to Nottingham. It did make sense to split it though for reliability issues if nothing else, and it's quite a simple change from comet onto red arrow at Derby anyhow.

 

[YX73OUB]

Comet partially replaced amber line by diverting through Little Eaton. They've had quite a reduction in service through there on the old Alfreton Red in recent years, from 3 buses per hour (hourly amber line, hourly 71, hourly nines (9.2?) to a now 2 hourly service on the notts and derby 71.

Surprised comet still exists, you'd think you'd incorporate it into the nines somehow so that it can be interworked. Think they added Little Eaton to comet simply as it had the running time, hour and half each way was generous, but hourly almost impossible.

I've not looked at timetables, but if I remember rightly nines departures from Derby are not evenly spaced, something that could be improved to make it more user friendly! I wonder if some use comet over nines as it stops in the bus station in Derby.

Of course, pre comet it was red arrow, where it potentially competed with pronto and rainbow 1 for pax from Chesterfield/Alfreton/Ripley to Nottingham. It did make sense to split it though for reliability issues if nothing else, and it's quite a simple change from comet onto red arrow at Derby anyhow.

Reason for this for the nines is purely down to having to increase running times at certain times of the day

It's worth noting that going through Little Eaton can sometimes be quicker than the A38

Running straight to Ripley from Derby can be troublesome, too owing to the time that it can take to get from the A38 into the town via the one way system.

It would be nice to see comet and nines join forces though.

 

[Trainman40083]

Reason for this for the nines is purely down to having to increase running times at certain times of the day

It's worth noting that going through Little Eaton can sometimes be quicker than the A38

Running straight to Ripley from Derby can be troublesome, too owing to the time that it can take to get from the A38 into the town via the one way system.

It would be nice to see comet and nines join forces though.

I seem to recall the Comet and 9.3 used to take about the same time from Ripley to Derby. Fun for the Comet, Derby bound getting across the Island at Little Eaton. If there was an argument for the Comet at Clay Cross, surely the same argument would apply at Alfreton and it would stick to the main road.

 

[YX73OUB]

I seem to recall the Comet and 9.3 used to take about the same time from Ripley to Derby. Fun for the Comet, Derby bound getting across the Island at Little Eaton. If there was an argument for the Comet at Clay Cross, surely the same argument would apply at Alfreton and it would stick to the main road.

But Alfreton serves as a mini hub for other connecting trentbarton services.

Yes I have many, many, many memories of trying to pull across that island when driving the 9.2 or amberline whilst at Langley Mill - and none of those memories are happy! Especially with the 'classic' Solos.

 

[Trainman40083]

But Alfreton serves as a mini hub for other connecting trentbarton services.

Yes I have many, many, many memories of trying to pull across that island when driving the 9.2 or amberline whilst at Langley Mill - and none of those memories are happy! Especially with the 'classic' Solos.

Alfreton has so many different operators. Stagecoach, Notts and Derby, Hulleys too. But for the most part, you could say the same about Class Cross. The roundabout at Little Eaton is bad enough in a car, even more so if the vehicle in front of you moves slower than a donkey. You can't even assume traffic will stop on a red light

 

[38291018]

I seem to recall the Comet and 9.3 used to take about the same time from Ripley to Derby. Fun for the Comet, Derby bound getting across the Island at Little Eaton. If there was an argument for the Comet at Clay Cross, surely the same argument would apply at Alfreton and it would stick to the main road.

They could potentially divert the 9.3 to serve little eaton as it don't run to derby as late as the 9.1 which I dint think little eaton needs so I see 9.3 being the better option of the 2 Nines routes and if it took the current comet route its not much different to using the A38 to lower kilburn, however i guess they chose comet as its also hourly?

But if this was to happen the Nines would serve all places from derby to Ripley currently done by comet and Nines allowing comet to go on the A38 as far as Ripley if they wanted however from little eaton A38 roundabout to Ripley I don't see the current Nines to the A38 being loads quicker as it will have to come off at Ripley going down hartshay hill then do a loop down grosvenor road to serve Ripley market place for commections as the hub for most buses to stop or terminate

Only way I see comet making most time is either keeping current routing through little eaton and getting rid of the stopping service in little chester or from little eaton roundabout going direct to alrefton as Nines serves most route well anyway but then swanick will be less served unless 9.3 is rerouted. I think best way it to do both to get rid of as much tike possible to alfreton however means 9.3 will have serve little eaton and swanick which may add too much time

Edit: even if they could I don't see it happening as I haven't worked it out but I don't know if by running up the A38 would save a bus with all the traffic on A38 peak time so doubt there's much point unless they tried offering it as alternative to train

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2025 ==

On a different note just curious, don't know if TM would want bigger single deck buses or if it's financially feasible or if they will do it as it needs to be done to the current versas if there stayibg which i assuming they are however I've noted that according to bustimes that 675 is at langly mill due to not being euro 6 and 685 was withdrawn to make place for 662 and then 677 is being withdrawn however if feasible would it not be better to keep as spares and potentially replace the sole OmniLink as a non standard type of vehicle even if it's 2/3 yrs newer than the solars?

 

[Trainman40083]

They could potentially divert the 9.3 to serve little eaton as it don't run to derby as late as the 9.1 which I dint think little eaton needs so I see 9.3 being the better option of the 2 Nines routes and if it took the current comet route its not much different to using the A38 to lower kilburn, however i guess they chose comet as its also hourly?

But if this was to happen the Nines would serve all places from derby to Ripley currently done by comet and Nines allowing comet to go on the A38 as far as Ripley if they wanted however from little eaton A38 roundabout to Ripley I don't see the current Nines to the A38 being loads quicker as it will have to come off at Ripley going down hartshay hill then do a loop down grosvenor road to serve Ripley market place for commections as the hub for most buses to stop or terminate

Only way I see comet making most time is either keeping current routing through little eaton and getting rid of the stopping service in little chester or from little eaton roundabout going direct to alrefton as Nines serves most route well anyway but then swanick will be less served unless 9.3 is rerouted. I think best way it to do both to get rid of as much tike possible to alfreton however means 9.3 will have serve little eaton and swanick which may add too much time

Edit: even if they could I don't see it happening as I haven't worked it out but I don't know if by running up the A38 would save a bus with all the traffic on A38 peak time so doubt there's much point unless they tried offering it as alternative to train

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Feb 2025 ==

On a different note just curious, don't know if TM would want bigger single deck buses or if it's financially feasible or if they will do it as it needs to be done to the current versas if there stayibg which i assuming they are however I've noted that according to bustimes that 675 is at langly mill due to not being euro 6 and 685 was withdrawn to make place for 662 and then 677 is being withdrawn however if feasible would it not be better to keep as spares and potentially replace the sole OmniLink as a non standard type of vehicle even if it's 2/3 yrs newer than the solars?

By Omnilink, do you mean TM Travel 1207? I thought that was already out of service at TM Travel.. A few weeks ago, it was being worked on at Meadow Road. Even talk of it being a trainer.

 

[Hyebone]

potentially replace the sole OmniLink as a non standard type of vehicle even if it's 2/3 yrs newer than the solars?

How different are the K230UB and L94UB platforms? Surely they share similarities if not parts to an extent

 

[m79900]

How different are the K230UB and L94UB platforms? Surely they share similarities if not parts to an extent

That made me think as well.
How similar is the Volvo B8RLE to the B7RLE?

 

[Trainman40083]

How different are the K230UB and L94UB platforms? Surely they share similarities if not parts to an extent

Was one a vertical engine, the other horizontal?

 

[38291018]

By Omnilink, do you mean TM Travel 1207? I thought that was already out of service at TM Travel.. A few weeks ago, it was being worked on at Meadow Road. Even talk of it being a trainer.

Yes and I didn't realise it may become a trainer

That made me think as well.
How similar is the Volvo B8RLE to the B7RLE?

I mean exterior wise obviously front bumper and I assume rear are different due to headlights and parts behind it but I assume as there both Wright body's other than panels on side where the wheels are as I assume there may be different due to different chassis majority of flat panels along the side look the same size and they are both Eclipses so wouldn't be surprised if there same as Wright probably wanted to standardize parts for making b8rle and for spares for the older b7rle
As far as engines and other parts I don't know because not done much research however Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Eclipse) says that B7RLE have D7C or D7E power trains with B8RLE having D8K power trains

So likewise with the L94UB/K230UB to the B7RLE/B8RLE I would assume mabey a bit but majority not as mentioned L94 and K230 are 2 very different engines

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes and I didn't realise it may become a trainer

I mean exterior wise obviously front bumper and I assume rear are different due to headlights and parts behind it but I assume as there both Wright body's other than panels on side where the wheels are as I assume there may be different due to different chassis majority of flat panels along the side look the same size and they are both Eclipses so wouldn't be surprised if there same as Wright probably wanted to standardize parts for making b8rle and for spares for the older b7rle
As far as engines and other parts I don't know because not done much research however Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Eclipse) says that B7RLE have D7C or D7E power trains with B8RLE having D8K power trains

So likewise with this I would assume mabey a bit but majority not

I was thinking I must notice if 1207 had actually moved at Derby. Then I remembered Versa 820 was parked in the same spot in A garage last time I was there. As for the Volvo B8RLE. It never seemed to be as good as the B7RLE.