YX73OUB
Member
No he left day to day ops to go to Australia in 2011 - the MD became Steve Ward who to that point was finance / accountant manager.
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Wellglade Group
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Trainman40083
Established Member
It has always been seen as a limited stop, premium service. At one time it used to run from Nottingham to Chesterfield via Derby.
Dwarfer1979
Member
Marketing. There is an element that the service is an almost non-stop run that spends most of its time flat out on a dual carriageway which coaches are more designed to do whilst buses aren't but there are heavyweight low-floors on the market (like the B8RLE) that mechanically would cope OK if specced right.
Effectively the Red Arrow competes with the train so needs to offer a higher standard of vehicle which coaches do, and by using coaches that higher standard is emphasised to potential passengers. TB have cited research that customers want the coaches and there is some evidence of that as when YourBus were competing using Citaros they got very little of the market with most staying with the more luxurious coaches as the low-floor facility wasn't valued as much as the comfort of the coach (coaches do tend to ride better than buses generally as their push for comfort is less compromised by the need to provide a low floor).
markymark2000
On Moderation
I'll throw the question out there. Why it it deemed that the Red Arrow needs coaches, but the X38 doesn't when the routes seem to be almost identical in terms of characteristics? X38 is nearly none stop (Stops at either end in the town/city and a main intermediate stop), has a good chunk of dual carriageway running and has the same end to end journey time as the Red Arrow. They seem extremely similar, yet the X38 runs with heavyweight low floor buses, and Red Arrow with coaches. The only difference is the X38 was partnership and combined with Arriva however with that gone, the routes seem identical.
Something that I'd like to see is Red Arrow extended to Burton every 20 minutes to replace the X38 and offer through links for passengers (would compete with the train with negligible time difference if you base it off city/town centres - city/town centre, higher spec and something different for Burton - Derby would massively help to win over passengers with the competition. Links Nottingham to Derby Hospital, and links Burton to Queens Medical Centre so would massively benefit staff), but sadly I can't see it happening despite the many benefits it would bring.
Something that I'd like to see is Red Arrow extended to Burton every 20 minutes to replace the X38 and offer through links for passengers (would compete with the train with negligible time difference if you base it off city/town centres - city/town centre, higher spec and something different for Burton - Derby would massively help to win over passengers with the competition. Links Nottingham to Derby Hospital, and links Burton to Queens Medical Centre so would massively benefit staff), but sadly I can't see it happening despite the many benefits it would bring.
derbybusdepot
Member
- Joined
- 17 Dec 2015
- Messages
- 347
X38 stops at several bus stops in Burton, and becomes a local service once coming of A38. It does not really compete with the train as much as the red arrow,as the journey time is longer (unlike Derby to Nottingham where journey time is similar by train/red arrow).
Dwarfer1979
Member
I suspect that the fact that for many years it was joint with Arriva, who probably didn't want to run coaches on it, would have meant it was not considered previously and because it has always had low-floor provision you may get more pushback from passengers about the loss of facility than happens around the Red Arrow which has never had that - so you would lose as many to Arriva who value the low-floor access as you would gain from the higher standard a coach offers but a coach costs more to buy so you need to create growth not just stand still.
As derbybusdepot has pointed out though there are also more intermediate stops at either end than the Red Arrow which results in a local traffic flow that will be more of an issue with a high floor coach and as such will slow the service down as it takes longer to board and alight (I think the Red Arrow only has 2 intermediate stops between the two bus stations, one on Upper Parliament Street and the other at QMC so there is no local flows as such).
If you were starting with a blank sheet of paper, without an operating partner, it may be a candidate for being coach worked as a more true limited stop service but you have decades of history that shape the route to where it is now and you have to reflect that.
Trainman40083
Established Member
Can you actually replace a low floor bus service with a coach these days? Is there enough passengers on the X38 to justify the cost? (Compared with the Red Arrow). If coaches were introduced to the X38, would that see the end of ENCTS passengers, who make up a fair percentage of the total? The great unknown.
YX73OUB
Member
Following on from the internal advertising for Flixbus drivers, positions are now advertised for TM Travel drivers to be based at Derby & Sheffield for flixbus work:
derbybusdepot
Member
- Joined
- 17 Dec 2015
- Messages
- 347
Red arrow also serves two quite large cities, and Trent Barton have several services that operate in both for people to connect from.
Looks like Wellglade will be doing trips to London. Chalfont look to be doing services from Nottingham/Leicester to Heathrow and Gatwick. Not sure which trips Vectare will be doing.
busspotter1
On Moderation
Only 29k??
markymark2000
On Moderation
Already discussed.
Wellglade Group
Optare Versa 823 is now back at Derby Meadow Road depot. Arrived this afternoon in the Notts and Derby green and blue livery with black around the windows. Enviro 200 54 has gone for painting, after the front end was rebuilt after the accident.
www.railforums.co.uk
Wellglades routes were discussed here
Wellglade Group
Optare Versa 823 is now back at Derby Meadow Road depot. Arrived this afternoon in the Notts and Derby green and blue livery with black around the windows. Enviro 200 54 has gone for painting, after the front end was rebuilt after the accident.
www.railforums.co.uk
There was also discussion in the Flixbus thread for other operators.
And started out as a replacement for the Derby-Nottingham part of Transpeak before seeing an impressive increase in frequency (I remember having to get to the Nurseryman to catch the hourly express service at the time - The Red Arrow continued to serve that for its first few years).
Trainman40083
Established Member
I remember when the express service between Derby and Nottingham was hourly, worked by two buses. One from Trentbarton and the other from Barton; both double deckers. There was not a lot of dual carriageway then.
That sounds like before one every two hours was subsumed into Transpeak.
Trainman40083
Established Member
Must have been mid 1960s. Of course, before Transpeak there was even the 952 which saw National Travel North West appearing, then the 252.
I'm aware of the 252 but hadn't heard of the 952.
Np13
Member
Volvo 704 is at Nottingham on rushcliffe villager, whilst 729 is at Derby on swift
704s going to cover for 216 while it gets a repaint (which in turn will inevitably withdraw 669) and 729s on loan
Jackoram06
Member
Has 473 gone off to TM travel yet? Not tracked in a couple of days either.
Mr TrainGuy
Member
Apparently has to replace a couple of the orange ex-threes versas, as I'm sure 472/3 comply with Sheffield's CAZ/ULEZ restrictions whereas those versas don't.
Jackoram06
Member
I don’t believe any of the versas at TM are compliant so will be interesting to see what they do in the next few months. I would imagine it’s gone to replace one of the omnideckers that has been sold?
In other news Trentbarton are starting to see competition again with Arriva launching route 21 and an extension to route 20 into Spondon. Looks to be competing with the i4 as well as offer an alternative to the Ilkeston flyer albeit slower as well as a partial replacement for the Spondon flyer but again slower as it goes through Chaddesden.
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I had a check and all except 810 are compliant so id think 810 will be another that returns to LM soon
761 YN08 CWT is currently on loan to derby on the sixes. Seems they are starting to show more that they dont really care about branding and comany branding as much, however looking at their services currently its no surprise they got a loan of some sort
Mr TrainGuy
Member
Derby depot seem less fussed when it comes to branding as a whole compared to some of the other depots. It is good to see this though and hopefully it'll become regular while parts are being supplied to other vehicles.
Jackoram06
Member
Bus times also showing that 494 is on the hq and 106 is on the comet not sure if they’re machine swaps but with the way today has gone anything seems possible at Derby depot
106 seems to have replaced 750 which looks to have broke down near Chesterfield. 494 is on the V3 with the diagram it is on being missing for much of the day.
Trainman40083
Established Member
494 must have spent the day alone on the HQ..492 and 493 were in A garage. Not a good day at Derby..I saw a standing load on the 6.3; no doubt picking up passengers who had wanted the 6.2.
joieman
Member
730 is tracking on the Kinchbus 9 on Bustimes.
Np13
Member
Yes it was, came off at 16:15 and was replaced with 716