Well done VTWC & ATW

[6Gman]

Was on the 1735 Chester - Euston today. Around 1733 came an announcement to the effect we would be 5 minutes late leaving awaiting a "late running Arriva Trains Wales service".

Holyhead - Birmingham came in on 3b (we were in 1) - half a dozen passengers quickly crossed the platform, off we went at 1739.

Exemplary.

(Of course, it meant we left Crewe at 1800 getting in the way of the 1801 Euston via Brum - so, down the line, somebody in Coventry will wonder why their train is late because of a kindness in Chester ... )

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

(Of course, it meant we left Crewe at 1800 getting in the way of the 1801 Euston via Brum - so, down the line, somebody in Coventry will wonder why their train is late because of a kindness in Chester ... )

That's what the long dwell at Wolverhampton is for.
Actually timekeeping of the xx01 from Crewe has improved since Norton Bridge was sorted.

I have even noticed southbound VT/AW connections being held at Warrington.
Maybe they are working together better - but can you trust them?

 

[miami]

Was on the 1735 Chester - Euston today. Around 1733 came an announcement to the effect we would be 5 minutes late leaving awaiting a "late running Arriva Trains Wales service".

Holyhead - Birmingham came in on 3b (we were in 1) - half a dozen passengers quickly crossed the platform, off we went at 1739.

Exemplary.

Not for those who missed connections. You were due into Crewe at 1754, you got it at 1758.5.

Network rail think that you need 10 minutes to change at Crewe, meaning that those heading to Bournmouth or Derby (both 1807 departures) would no longer be able to make their train.

 

[Robertj21a]

Not for those who missed connections. You were due into Crewe at 1754, you got it at 1758.5.

Network rail think that you need 10 minutes to change at Crewe, meaning that those heading to Bournmouth or Derby (both 1807 departures) would no longer be able to make their train.

8.5 minutes at Crewe is probably quite adequate for the vast majority, it's not as if everyone would have been affected.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Will they start doing this with the 1330 ex ABR and the 1524 VTWC Shrewsbury Euston?

 

[6Gman]

Not for those who missed connections. You were due into Crewe at 1754, you got it at 1758.5.

Network rail think that you need 10 minutes to change at Crewe, meaning that those heading to Bournmouth or Derby (both 1807 departures) would no longer be able to make their train.

I think they'd have been fine but I see your point.

 

[Polarbear]

It's even more impressive when you consider VT west coast was up the creek yesterday afternoon & the Voyager that formed that 17:35 from Chester was the 15:10 ex Euston, that arrived at Chester at about 17:23!

 

[Crossover]

Will they start doing this with the 1330 ex ABR and the 1524 VTWC Shrewsbury Euston?

Ex ABR?

I presume you mean ex AYW, in which case AYW would need clarifying as Aberystwyth

 

[kieron]

Network rail think that you need 10 minutes to change at Crewe, meaning that those heading to Bournmouth or Derby (both 1807 departures) would no longer be able to make their train.

Network Rail think you need to allow 10 minutes for a change there rather than anything else. I suppose that's to cater for a lot of people trying to use the lift at once, whether from your train or from another one.

In the event, people joining the Bournemouth train would have had more than 10 minutes, as that train reached Crewe 6 1/2 minutes late. It was only a minute late when the train from Chester was scheduled to depart, so this may not have been predictable then.

The Derby train did leave pretty much on time, though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One advantage of increasing use of Advance tickets and online bookings is that, in future, an IT system could be developed which could make an informed decision on whether to hold a connection based on who is actually known to be making it, and other aspects about their booking, e.g. an assistance request, a bicycle, the use of a Senior Railcard, Disabled Person's Railcard or Family Railcard, a group booking for a school, the presence of children on the booking etc, then offset that against the likely delay and cost caused by holding or not holding. The more information, the better the decision. Passengers could be notified of the intention to hold or not, and given new connections before even leaving the first train.

It could be made yet better by adding confidence of further delay, e.g. using the reason for the delay - for instance, a train failure requiring low speed running because an engine is out on a DMU will just make it get later, while a delay caused solely by a missing member of traincrew on a previous journey is unlikely to lengthen unless a path is missed.

Surveys could be used to add predicted data from walk-up tickets to the mix and enhance the quality of the decision yet further.

 

[Gareth Marston]

One advantage of increasing use of Advance tickets and online bookings is that, in future, an IT system could be developed which could make an informed decision on whether to hold a connection based on who is actually known to be making it, and other aspects about their booking, e.g. an assistance request, a bicycle, the use of a Senior Railcard, Disabled Person's Railcard or Family Railcard, a group booking for a school, the presence of children on the booking etc, then offset that against the likely delay and cost caused by holding or not holding. The more information, the better the decision. Passengers could be notified of the intention to hold or not, and given new connections before even leaving the first train.

It could be made yet better by adding confidence of further delay, e.g. using the reason for the delay - for instance, a train failure requiring low speed running because an engine is out on a DMU will just make it get later, while a delay caused solely by a missing member of traincrew on a previous journey is unlikely to lengthen unless a path is missed.

Surveys could be used to add predicted data from walk-up tickets to the mix and enhance the quality of the decision yet further.

With 3 % of travellers using advance and only 20% is sales done online this is not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With 3 % of travellers using advance and only 20% is sales done online this is not going to happen anytime soon.

I would expect the online sales and use of Advances to be much higher for long journeys. That statistic is no doubt skewed by the huge amount of short-distance commuter traffic for which Advances are not relevant.

 

[Envoy]

It seems to me that ATW & Virgin are not working together to give you the cheapest Advance tickets when a journey uses the two companies. Just go on www.nationalrail.co.uk and test it out with say CDF > EDB as a through ticket and then as a split ticket with the split being at Crewe - where you switch trains between these TOC’s.

So, if Joe Public know this and do ‘splits’, it would be impossible to work out the origin & destination of passengers.

 

[Taunton]

One advantage of increasing use of Advance tickets and online bookings is that, in future, an IT system could be developed which could make an informed decision on whether to hold a connection based on who is actually known to be making it

In the bad old days on the railway this sort of knowledge was just part of doing the supervisory job; the stationmaster, and certainly the platform inspectors, would know the typical numbers who were changing. If anyone was travelling to say Yorkshire from the Minehead branch, connecting to the morning "Devonian" at Taunton, they would be spotted by the guard, and if they got delayed crossing on the branch (unusual but it happened) he would shout to the porter at Bishops Lydeard "Wire forward, three for Leeds, hold the Devvy a couple of minutes". And the inspector at Taunton would have a porter standing by the bay to help them and their (typically) heavy bags across quickly to the waiting express.

All so simple and all thrown away.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It seems to me that ATW & Virgin are not working together to give you the cheapest Advance tickets when a journey uses the two companies. Just go on www.nationalrail.co.uk and test it out with say CDF > EDB as a through ticket and then as a split ticket with the split being at Crewe - where you switch trains between these TOC’s.

So, if Joe Public know this and do ‘splits’, it would be impossible to work out the origin & destination of passengers.

Just like my contention about routeing generally, it needs to be possible to issue a single Advance ticket across multiple TOCs in this manner.

 

[QueensCurve]

That's what the long dwell at Wolverhampton is for.
Actually timekeeping of the xx01 from Crewe has improved since Norton Bridge was sorted.?

Not arriving at Crewe it hasn't.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It seems to me that ATW & Virgin are not working together to give you the cheapest Advance tickets when a journey uses the two companies. Just go on www.nationalrail.co.uk and test it out with say CDF > EDB as a through ticket and then as a split ticket with the split being at Crewe - where you switch trains between these TOC’s.

That route is a real muddle.
Going back to the later BR days, it was an XC service (via Birmingham and then York or Preston).
The Marches route didn't really compete and wasn't an intercity route.

Even today, XC set most of the fares (even if you travel Marches/WCML and never set foot on XC).
The specific ATW (Advance) fares are linked to TPE connections via Manchester (ie based on regional TOCs not intercity).
Now that ATW and TPE have decent long-distance services you would have thought there would be through fares to match, but there aren't.
And the VT option (VT and Connections) only has limited routes (eg to/from North Wales).

 

[JaJaWa]

With 3 % of travellers using advance and only 20% is sales done online this is not going to happen anytime soon.

No way is that the case on long distance services.

 

[QueensCurve]

Was on the 1735 Chester - Euston today. Around 1733 came an announcement to the effect we would be 5 minutes late leaving awaiting a "late running Arriva Trains Wales service".

Holyhead - Birmingham came in on 3b (we were in 1) - half a dozen passengers quickly crossed the platform, off we went at 1739.

It never seems to work the other way round at Warrington when the ATW at xx:26 might have to wait 3 or 4 mins for the late running Virgin xx:20 to Euston.

 

[Phil from Mon]

It never seems to work the other way round at Warrington when the ATW at xx:26 might have to wait 3 or 4 mins for the late running Virgin xx:20 to Euston.

In the last 4 times I have used that service, over 2 years, it has not been held on 3 occasions. Once, this time last year, it actually left as we drew in.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In the last 4 times I have used that service, over 2 years, it has not been held on 3 occasions. Once, this time last year, it actually left as we drew in.

My record is 2 in 4 when it mattered (ie from VT to AW). It's a long, lonely hour to wait at Warrington.
I am more often on the ATW service from Manchester, and it's pot luck whether you get held at Winwick for the Glasgow to pass in front, or get a clear road and probably leave Warrington before the VT shows up.
The culprit seems to be the station overtime at Preston (crew change) or Wigan which eats into the connection time at Warrington.
I've been early into Preston and still missed the connection.

If you are on a walk-up ticket, it is normally valid via Crewe, so you can climb on the following Birmingham and change there for Chester (gaining 10 minutes on the next direct service), but if on an Advance you are stuck.