Weird platform

[bradders1983]

Sheffield Station has a Platform 2C which is actually a bay platform and not part of the through Platform 2

Stockport has a Platform 0, as do other stations.

I'm guessing the reason for the two examples having "odd" platform assignments is that these are newer platforms than the other platforms, and to avoid the need to renumber the other platforms too, but why is this? How much hassle would it actually have caused to renumber the platforms, and what were the benefits of not doing so?

EDIT - I clicked Submit too early. Can a Mod change the title to "Platform Numbering"?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Sheffield Station has a Platform 2C which is actually a bay platform and not part of the through Platform 2

Stockport has a Platform 0, as do other stations.

I'm guessing the reason for the two examples having "odd" platform assignments is that these are newer platforms than the other platforms, and to avoid the need to renumber the other platforms too, but why is this? How much hassle would it actually have caused to renumber the platforms, and what were the benefits of not doing so?

EDIT - I clicked Submit too early. Can a Mod change the title to "Platform Numbering"?

It can be confusing I suppose for staff/regular passsengers who are so used to saying, for example 'platform 2 for all Manchester trains', and if that was to change there may people being advised incorrectly, simply because it may have been like that for 30+ years, it really is easier just to adjust platforms to 2c, 0, or 5 south for example, instead of total renumbering.

Stratford Domestic could do with renumbering though... really, really confusing.

You can change the Thread title yourself you know, double-click to the right of it in the Menu view.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Isn't the reason something to do with the costs involved with re-doing the platform number indicators on the approach signals?

Another example is platform 4 at Birimingham New Street isn't it? The LM Liverpool services bay at the north end...?

But be thankful we haven't got any stations with platform numbering like that at Melun ( a place to the SE of Paris roughly equal to the distance Woking is from Waterloo ). I forget the exact numbering there even though it was only last Friday that I most recently visited the place, but you have 1 on one side of the station and 1b on the other side of the station with an island in between them... I'll check the exact numbering next time I'm there, unless anyone else gets there first!

 

[bradders1983]

Isn't the reason something to do with the costs involved with re-doing the platform number indicators on the approach signals?!

When travelling into Leeds from the West, I have noticed they have 6 displays above the 6 lines which display which platform the train should use. Surely these are dot matrix and won't need any reprogramming as they can display any number anyway? Or are these systems relatively new, or are older systems still used at places such as Sheffield and Stockport?

 

[43167]

Preston is another with the south end bays numbered platform's 3c & 4c. Normally where the Ormskirk services go from.

 

[Invincibles]

The thing that confuses me about Sheffield and Preston is that the "c" platforms are not new, or they certainly do not look it.

Stockport platform 0 is very obviously new and it makes some sense that they did not undertake a massive renumbering for that. The same will be true of many of the platforms that have odd numbers around the place.

Birmingham 4c makes a lot of sense I think because it is at the b end of platforms 4 and 5.

 

[The Planner]

When travelling into Leeds from the West, I have noticed they have 6 displays above the 6 lines which display which platform the train should use. Surely these are dot matrix and won't need any reprogramming as they can display any number anyway? Or are these systems relatively new, or are older systems still used at places such as Sheffield and Stockport?

Im no signalling expert but Id imagine that the interlocking would need some tweaking so the routes show correctly on the theatre boards on the signals. Its not the smallest of jobs as every train schedule has to be changed and all the myriad of downstream systems.

Moor St gets re-numbered in November and Wolverhampton will when its re-signalled. Cardiff stays the same though I think when it gets done as the missing platform 5 is going in as 5.

 

[Tomnick]

Yes, the indication displayed on the route indicator will be determined by the interlocking (which also needs to prove that the route indicator is sufficiently 'alight' before the main signal will clear). Thus any change to the indication for a particular route would require pretty extensive changes to the interlocking, obviously repeated for each signal on the approach.

Not sure about Preston's bay, but Sheffield's 2c certainly looks (being short and rather remote from the rest of the station!) like it might have been a non-passenger bay originally?

 

[Andrew Nelson]

Before the Re-Numbering at leeds, the New Platforms at Leeds City were going to be X, Y & Z.

 

[Railsigns]

Yes, the indication displayed on the route indicator will be determined by the interlocking (which also needs to prove that the route indicator is sufficiently 'alight' before the main signal will clear). Thus any change to the indication for a particular route would require pretty extensive changes to the interlocking, obviously repeated for each signal on the approach.

It would require a change to the route indicator itself and possibly some work in the location case, but no change to the interlocking would be required.

 

[Tomnick]

I stand corrected, thanks!

 

[Wyvern]

Not sure about Preston's bay, but Sheffield's 2c certainly looks (being short and rather remote from the rest of the station!) like it might have been a non-passenger bay originally?

Yes that's what I'm thinking. Sheffield is particularly confusing because the other bays have their "own" numbers e.g: 7a (no 7b) and 3a and 3b (two halves of a single bay) and 4a and 4b (likewise)

So you get off a train on Platform 2a, walk through the arch and expect to be on 3 but , no, you are on 5.

 

[brompton rail]

Yes that's what I'm thinking. Sheffield is particularly confusing because the other bays have their "own" numbers e.g: 7a (no 7b) and 3a and 3b (two halves of a single bay) and 4a and 4b (likewise)

So you get off a train on Platform 2a, walk through the arch and expect to be on 3 but , no, you are on 5.

If you go to Leeds and go to platform 12 you will find 12a, 12b, 12c and 12d. Whilst I have never seen trains at all four sections of the long platform there are frequently 2 trains using the platform, and going the same direction. Between c and b there is a turnout onto the middle road. Doncaster - Leeds stoppers (321s) are frequently sent to 12c or 12d, though as they are 4 car I don't recall seeing a train on both c and d.

 

[Wyvern]

The problem I had at Sheffield was that my train was the Manchester leaving from 2A.

The next train in however was a full-length Cross Country Voyager so all the indicators read simply "2" without an A or a B.

 

[Anvil1984]

If you go to Leeds and go to platform 12 you will find 12a, 12b, 12c and 12d. Whilst I have never seen trains at all four sections of the long platform there are frequently 2 trains using the platform, and going the same direction. Between c and b there is a turnout onto the middle road. Doncaster - Leeds stoppers (321s) are frequently sent to 12c or 12d, though as they are 4 car I don't recall seeing a train on both c and d.

Problem at Leeds is I dont think there'll be units in at xxC and xxD at the same time unless it is a unit coming in as a multple and splitting in the platform. Main reason is because the stop boards are placed in silly places (my opinion) which means a 2/3 car unit which is timetabled to be on D is actually closer to being on C

 

[12CSVT]

Bedford has a bay plaform 1A which isn't part of platform 1 (possibly because the bay was a more recent addition)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I lknow Wolverhampton has always been quite complex: before the new p4 was built, I think platforms were designated:
Current p1: 1a (north) & 1b (south)
Current p2/3: 2a/3a (north) & 2b/3b (south)
Current p5: 1c
Current p6: 1d

I feel it quite sensible what they did to Edinburgh Waverley about 2 years ago with the mass remodelling works: they renumbered the platforms clockwise.

 

[asylumxl]

Bedford has a bay plaform 1A which isn't part of platform 1 (possibly because the bay was a more recent addition)

It is on the same platform structure if that makes sense.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Drivers would have to be briefed, and the enivetable confusion when drivers pull up to the wrong stopping marks etc. when they get confused over which platform they are approaching.

 

[me123]

Haymarket has a Platform 0, beside 1. It was built when they were working on Edinburgh and had to terminate a lot of trains at Haymarket, and it's going to see a lot more use when the wires go up at Edinburgh over the next few weeks (as the final part of Airdrie-Bathgate). However, it's not used very much (I don't think it's used at all by day-day passenger services)

I like Edinburgh's renumbering. It makes sense to me, but it does seem to confuse some others (particularly having 1 & 20, 2 & 19, and 7 & 11 as the same platform face), but it's a pretty sensible system; a lot moreso than what was previously there (with 20 and 21 separate, and nothing between 1 and 10 except for a seemingly random Platform 7).

Sheffield just seem unnecessarily complex to me. Why do they need 3A and 3B, for example, when just about every other station in the UK has managed fine with "front train" and "rear train"?

Another one I don't really like is Stirling. No platform 1. 4 and 5 are unused Northbound bays. 6 is opposite 9 (dyslexic nightmare). 7 & 8 are Southbound bays between 3&6. It's all totally unnecessary!

 

[Lampshade]

The thing that confuses me about Sheffield and Preston is that the "c" platforms are not new, or they certainly do not look it.

The bays at the south end of Preston were mainly used for stabling locos until the late 90s.

 

[jon0844]

Why can't things be standardised, given that some stations use a, b, c as zones to signify different parts of the platform - and clearly some other stations use them as another station, as an easy way to insert a new one without renumbering them all.

But, while this is a cheap solution, it's not very logical.

 

[SignalEngineer]

It would require a change to the route indicator itself and possibly some work in the location case, but no change to the interlocking would be required.

Yes this is correct. Only the indicator would need to be changed, not the interlocking. Altohough they look like 'dot matrix', most 'modern' indicators are fibre optic strands in the desired pattern run back to a lamp (this so you are always sure that the lamp is either on or off, and don't have errors caused by individual failures if multiple dots were used and some of those dots failed . There would be one lamp(not counting the back-up if there is such) for each 'number / letter' and this lamp is controlled by the interlocking. So as far as the interlocking is concerned it doesn't actually know what it's displaying.... it just energises a lamp.

Older style 'stencil / theatre' indicators used to have a stencil with a light behind it (so the more combinations required meant more space).

 

[scrapy]

Stockport platform 0 is very obviously new and it makes some sense that they did not undertake a massive renumbering for that. The same will be true of many of the platforms that have odd numbers around the place.

Stockport also has a platform 3a, which is a seperate North facing bay platform. Just before platform 0 was opened station signage in the ticket hall was altered to advertise Platforms 1-6. This was covered over, and never used. Would have made a lot more sense as signalling would have not needed altering because route indicators have line names (F, S, B etc) rather than platform numbers and the line names would not need altering.