Weekend nights and revenue

[strange6]

I have been travelling at night (post-9pm) a lot during the week just lately and I have noticed a common occurence. During the week, the guards always come around checking your ticket and dispensing tickets for those getting on at the little stations. Come Friday and Saturday night, they're nowhere to be seen and with the route I have been taking (not mentioning in case the powers at be are watching), a lot of revenue will be lost because even the bigger stations have no RPI's working that late so there are an awful lot of clubbers getting free rides. Just wonder what general TOC policy is for ticket checking late at night. I would assume there would be no difference to that during the day

 

[WestCoast]

Come Friday and Saturday night, they're nowhere to be seen and with the route I have been taking (not mentioning in case the powers at be are watching), a lot of revenue will be lost because even the bigger stations have no RPI's working that late so there are an awful lot of clubbers getting free rides.

Locally speaking:

I've noticed this as well. TPE and Northern often seem to abandon checks after about 9pm on their local routes. Virgin don't really check at night on Wigan - Preston - Lancaster (not that checks are all that common at other times).

I presume the policy is check but don't put yourself in unnecessary danger?

Another thing is you don't see all that many female guards late at night on local services, anyone else noticed this?

 

[spoony]

Probably a safety thing as they dont want their staff asking tanked up people for money after a night out? Bit like the T&W Metro. I have never seen any revenue staff on the system of an evening. Your pretty much relying on people to buy a ticket but what;s the point if your a punter? After all no one is ever going to check your ticket

 

[strange6]

Probably a safety thing as they dont want their staff asking tanked up people for money after a night out? Bit like the T&W Metro. I have never seen any revenue staff on the system of an evening. Your pretty much relying on people to buy a ticket but what;s the point if your a punter? After all no one is ever going to check your ticket

I agree but from what I have seen, it does get quite noisy but it's all good humoured. I suppose the nasty stuff would get left to the taxis drivers at 3am in the morning

 

[WestCoast]

Bit like the T&W Metro. I have never seen any revenue staff on the system of an evening.

The T&W has some form of security personnel (in high-vis jackets) at night doesn't it, but they don't do revenue?

I've seen revenue checks on the Manchester Metrolink at night - often supported by PCSOs.

 

[Flamingo]

A lot of evening revellers buy return tickets on the way out. Personally, I was surprised at the number that had tickets (well over 95%) on evening trains leaving Cardiff.

Also, from a Guards point of view, there is no point in getting clobbered by some drunk/drugged scrote whilst looking for a £5 fare, on a train that is only being run as a franchise obligation.

The FGW 04.00 from Swansea - Paddingon used to be a real problem - eventually, after several incidents, and the threat of a "refusal to work" (a safety issue), ATW started putting barriers in place (backed up by BTP) and a zero-tolerance approach to drunks. It very quickly settled down when the scrotes realised they would not get home if they did not behave / have a ticket.

 

[spacehopper]

One of our guards used to work on the "west" and they didn't go through late at night because any "tickets please" was met with a "**** orf". They worked some very intimidating trains in some very dodgy areas.

Trying to get tickets or money out of P155 heeds is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

Some of these late trains are just yob specials, drugged up or drunk, sat in first class eating kebabs. Been there done that got the blood stained shirt. Only so much you or BTP can do, you can't reason with or engage inebriates.

Most of the time you'll get them coming down but the trend now is to stop at home get tanked up and go out much later. On some flows hats off to the transpennine and crosscountry guards that have less than 15 minutes to try and get money out of them. That's if they can get through the train, with them running up and down and slipping in and out of the bogs.

Luckily our last trains aren't too bad, but I do sympathise with normals and other staff that are unfortunate to be traveling on these late trains.

 

[175001]

I've been on tonight. Every train has been packed to the rafters, with drunk "customers" with glass bottles etc in hand, not pleasant. 1st rule in the rule book is that my own safety is the main priority, so my priority on weekend lates is safety of my train and punctuality.

 

[WestCoast]

That's if they can get through the train, with them running up and down and slipping in and out of the bogs.

I have been on Northern services at night, when the toilet has been locked!

 

[Anvil1984]

I judge it, often I will walk down without a machine for passenger assurance to show I'm there but safetys number one whether your a guard or other member of revenue staff and after a while you get a kind of sixth sense whether you should go down collecting or not

 

[craigwilson]

The T&W has some form of security personnel (in high-vis jackets) at night doesn't it, but they don't do revenue?

I've seen revenue checks on the Manchester Metrolink at night - often supported by PCSOs.

Yes, they'd often send RPIs onboard on the last tram of the night, at G-Mex, or Sale, and then chuck any fare-dodgers off at Cornbrook, or Dane Road, two of the more secluded stations on the Altrincham line!!

Not sure how professional it is chucking people off at unmanned Metrolink stations (relatively speaking) in the middle of nowhere - but my opinion was, I'd paid for my ticket, so they deserved what they got!!

 

[spoony]

The T&W has some form of security personnel (in high-vis jackets) at night doesn't it, but they don't do revenue?

I've seen revenue checks on the Manchester Metrolink at night - often supported by PCSOs.

I have never seen them and my girlfriend who travels quite regularly from Gateshead to Stadium of Light at 11pm has never seen any. They may have the odd person in a high vis jacket at Newcastle stations but not on actually on the trains.

 

[WestCoast]

I have never seen them and my girlfriend who travels quite regularly from Gateshead to Stadium of Light at 11pm has never seen any. They may have the odd person in a high vis jacket at Newcastle stations but not on actually on the trains.

Not a regular user but some guys with high-vis stood up, one inside each carriage, heading out of the city centre towards Tynemouth on the loop at about 10/11pm at night - was about a year ago.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not sure how professional it is chucking people off at unmanned Metrolink stations (relatively speaking) in the middle of nowhere - but my opinion was, I'd paid for my ticket, so they deserved what they got!!

They got off lightly if they didn't get a fine - just chucked off!

 

[BestWestern]

I tend to 'patrol the train' and have a look at what I've got, but won't bother with revenue if it's likely to be a trainload of aggro. It just isn't worth it for the sake of a few quid. If they won't pay then they won't pay, no point in handing them a little victory they can brag about all night, better just to keep an eye on things and not go down the ticket path. As for Metrolink chucking people off in the middle of nowhere, it's a no-no on our ToC as you can end up liable if said fare evader does something stupid, as you have forcibly put them in a situation they had no intention of being in, with nobody about to see out the ToC's 'duty of care'. Sounds crazy, but it's viewed that way by the Courts so it seems. Ho hum...

 

[Sceptre]

I regularly get a TPE train from Leeds to Huddersfield after 9pm each Friday. Guard came down on Friday's 9:40pm, for the first time in a few weeks.

 

[Nick O. Teen]

I tend to 'patrol the train' and have a look at what I've got, but won't bother with revenue if it's likely to be a trainload of aggro. It just isn't worth it for the sake of a few quid. If they won't pay then they won't pay, no point in handing them a little victory they can brag about all night, better just to keep an eye on things and not go down the ticket path. As for Metrolink chucking people off in the middle of nowhere, it's a no-no on our ToC as you can end up liable if said fare evader does something stupid, as you have forcibly put them in a situation they had no intention of being in, with nobody about to see out the ToC's 'duty of care'. Sounds crazy, but it's viewed that way by the Courts so it seems. Ho hum...

I completely endorse your view, BW, and carry out much the same policy.

When you consider that the barriers are all open at my main station by about 9pm, and all the RPIs and such like have gone home, what support do we have anyway for ticket enforcement?

 

[1V53]

I've done tickets at 2300 and later of a weekday with pleasant theatregoers but usually I leave it alone after 10pm, especially on Friday and Saturdays. Our boss doesn't expect us to either - they'd rather have on time trains with no incidents than reports, paperwork and long term sickness due to an incident.

 

[Ferret]

I'll do as others have said - wander through and assess the situation. If there's people willing to pay, then thanks very much, I'll take their fares from them! If there's likely to be aggro, then I might leave that carriage alone!

 

[Saxonia]

I've been on tonight. Every train has been packed to the rafters, with drunk "customers" with glass bottles etc in hand, not pleasant. 1st rule in the rule book is that my own safety is the main priority, so my priority on weekend lates is safety of my train and punctuality.

Good man
Personally, I have worked more "****head/numbnut" specials than I care to remember, & I also have experience going right back to "slam door" units + coaching stock on BR - mm, there was a difference back then, though - regardless of the fact that we had no mobile phones, etc, when we wanted urgent assistance, we got it - EVERY TIME. Back then, I would happily do revenue on ANY train, Sat nights included. As for now, huh - I will NOT endanger my personal safety or livelihood for a few rotten quid, especially when said TOC has the overall majority of ticket offices closed, + barrier checks removed at such times ,which shows how much THEY value the safety & wellbeing of their frontline employees............
Of course, if the TOC management really is that interested in revenue at that time of night, they are more than welcome to come out & try it for themselves..........

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I take every train as it comes, I weigh the situation up then decide what to do, golden rule is never put yourself in danger...so I don't....simples!

 

[anthony263]

A lot of evening revellers buy return tickets on the way out. Personally, I was surprised at the number that had tickets (well over 95%) on evening trains leaving Cardiff.

Also, from a Guards point of view, there is no point in getting clobbered by some drunk/drugged scrote whilst looking for a £5 fare, on a train that is only being run as a franchise obligation.

The FGW 04.00 from Swansea - Paddingon used to be a real problem - eventually, after several incidents, and the threat of a "refusal to work" (a safety issue), ATW started putting barriers in place (backed up by BTP) and a zero-tolerance approach to drunks. It very quickly settled down when the scrotes realised they would not get home if they did not behave / have a ticket.

The 03:58 Swansea - London Paddington does seem to have at least to members of FGW staff checking tickets. I have also seen at least 2 BTP officers . Though those BTP officers tend to leave the train at Cardiff or newport. Mind you that service has been quiet on the last couple of occasions that i have used it.

 

[strange6]

I take every train as it comes, I weigh the situation up then decide what to do, golden rule is never put yourself in danger...so I don't....simples!

i think that sums up the best way of doing things and I'm glad the TOC's generally leave the guard to do his own assessment of the situation.
However, the special night buses around Greater Manchester have two big 'bouncers' on each bus. I wonder if that could be a possibility on trains? But like I have said before, I suppose the real trouble will come after 1am when everybody is really p*ssed up

 

[MidnightFlyer]

However, the special night buses around Greater Manchester have two big 'bouncers' on each bus. I wonder if that could be a possibility on trains? But like I have said before, I suppose the real trouble will come after 1am when everybody is really p*ssed up

They do, they're called the BTP, unfortunately they're about as much use as a waterproof sponge and seem very reluctent to travel onboard, they prefer just to get everyone off the station they man and go and have a tea break.

 

[strange6]

They do, they're called the BTP, unfortunately they're about as much use as a waterproof spongs and seem very reluctent to travel onboard, they prefer just to get everyone of the station they man and go and have a tea break.

Oh, I had forgotten about them! hahaha

 

[Flamingo]

The 03:58 Swansea - London Paddington does seem to have at least to members of FGW staff checking tickets. I have also seen at least 2 BTP officers . Though those BTP officers tend to leave the train at Cardiff or newport. Mind you that service has been quiet on the last couple of occasions that i have used it.

The troublemakers have left by Cardiff. The reason it is quiet is because of the BTP/doublemanning. It's improved no end, word has got around it's not a soft touch any more.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've done tickets at 2300 and later of a weekday with pleasant theatregoers but usually I leave it alone after 10pm, especially on Friday and Saturdays.

I have to say, I find one can take a surprising amount of revenue on the late trains, it's a question of knowing when to push it and when to back off. The "average" bod chancing their arm will usually pay up, as the threat of being kicked off the last train is a pretty potent one!

I usually sell Super-savers, or day tickets, as looking for full opens is probably pushing it.

Our boss doesn't expect us to either - they'd rather have on time trains with no incidents than reports, paperwork and long term sickness due to an incident.

That's another reason I do tickets - dealing with the complaints & incident forms winds my boss up!

 

[Greenback]

I'd have thought the troublemakers would be gone after Neath!

 

[Flamingo]

I'd have thought the troublemakers would be gone after Neath!

Not all of them. The majority, though!

 

[Mojo]

You all make South Wales sound like the Wild West

It's probably wise and right for the front line staff to feed back incidents of troublesome trains to their management. If someone asked for my opinion, I'd have considered a 4am train to be a quiet train with peaceful early morning commuters, not one used by revellers on their way back from a late-night discotheque!

 

[Flamingo]

You all make South Wales sound like the Wild West

It's probably wise and right for the front line staff to feed back incidents of troublesome trains to their management. If someone asked for my opinion, I'd have considered a 4am train to be a quiet train with peaceful early morning commuters, not one used by revellers on their way back from a late-night discotheque!

Clubs close 03.30, 4 am train is the perfect one to get home.

The Wild West is the perfect analogy (cowboys included).

 

[175001]

Good man
Personally, I have worked more "****head/numbnut" specials than I care to remember, & I also have experience going right back to "slam door" units + coaching stock on BR - mm, there was a difference back then, though - regardless of the fact that we had no mobile phones, etc, when we wanted urgent assistance, we got it - EVERY TIME. Back then, I would happily do revenue on ANY train, Sat nights included. As for now, huh - I will NOT endanger my personal safety or livelihood for a few rotten quid, especially when said TOC has the overall majority of ticket offices closed, + barrier checks removed at such times ,which shows how much THEY value the safety & wellbeing of their frontline employees............
Of course, if the TOC management really is that interested in revenue at that time of night, they are more than welcome to come out & try it for themselves..........

100% with you.

And guess what I was on, our worst line, a double Huddersfield, and those rail ale'ers were there in their droves last night!