Weekend First on Cross Country

[Geswedey]

I was advised by an XC Train Manager that safeguarded ex BR staff were no longer able to upgrade to Weekend First on XC services using either free travel or priv tickets does anyone know if this is correct and when it was implemented if it is?

 

[Jonfun]

Section 2(15) of the Staff Travel Terms and Conditions I'm afraid:

'All rail staff travel facilities can only be used in the class of travel for which they are issued."

 

[Mag_seven]

My understanding was that staff with STD travel facilities could always use any weekend first offer to upgrade.

In fact in the case of VTEC its explicitly mentioned in the restrictions document (https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/f.../rst/RST_Summer_2018_Restrictions_Booklet.pdf) when talking about staff acceptance of refreshments:

N.B Holders who have purchased Staff/FIP Privilege 1st Class fares, or at Weekends who have purchased a Weekend 1st upgrade, are entitled to partake of the offer without the need to purchase the voucher

Now of course it may only be VTEC that allow it but I'm sure thats not the case.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I've had the same issue previously when travelling on XC on a non-safeguarded PRIV ticket - but no other operator has ever had an issue. Perhaps its a company policy? After all, they don't have to offer Weekend first at all...

 

[Geswedey]

Interesting responses I have never had any issues on XC before and bought one on GWR today, XC have not responded to my emailed enquiry, no issues on any other TOC either.

 

[davetheguard]

I've regularly upgraded on GWR with no problems at all. But I was always under the impression that Cross Country didn't offer that to those travelling on staff passes or PRIV's, so I've never tried it. Unfortunately, I can't offer a written source for my belief, or say where I'd got the impression from. They've certainly missed out on quite a few upgrades from me as a result.

Anyone know what XC's official policy is?

 

[tiptoptaff]

I've regularly upgraded on GWR with no problems at all. But I was always under the impression that Cross Country didn't offer that to those travelling on staff passes or PRIV's, so I've never tried it. Unfortunately, I can't offer a written source for my belief, or say where I'd got the impression from. They've certainly missed out on quite a few upgrades from me as a result.

Anyone know what XC's official policy is?

I bought one recently, was travelling as a small group on PRIV, 4 of us, and he made a big thing about it how he was doing us a favour not excessing us to a full rate standard first. I know we (GWR) seem to be pretty good about it, and were good to me with it before I worked for them. VTEC were fine, and VTWC. As were ScotRail.

Maybe it's the TMs - I've never had any issues of any sort on the XC turbos

 

[Mag_seven]

But I was always under the impression that Cross Country didn't offer that to those travelling on staff passes or PRIV's, so I've never tried it.

If there is such a policy then it needs to be explicitly stated in the RSTL travel facilities restrictions document. As it is currently not an explicit restriction then I don't see how XC can refuse a STD Priv holder a weekend first upgrade (for which of course they pay the full upgrade cost so its not as if XC are losing out)

 

[tiptoptaff]

I've never been refused, but I've been made to feel like I'm getting away with something and that I'm lucky they've let me do it. There are exceptions - some TMs I've come across have been fantastic and not battered an eyelid

 

[Jonfun]

If there is such a policy then it needs to be explicitly stated in the RSTL travel facilities restrictions document. As it is currently not an explicit restriction then I don't see how XC can refuse a STD Priv holder a weekend first upgrade (for which of course they pay the full upgrade cost so its not as if XC are losing out)

See my post above. It is explicitly stated, though in the general terms and conditions. Train Companies may offer it - and it makes little sense not to, to be fair, particularly on quiet trains at the weekends when the space is available and it frees up a seat in standard - but standard class staff travel is, per the RSTL terms and conditions, only valid in standard class.

 

[Qwerty133]

See my post above. It is explicitly stated, though in the general terms and conditions. Train Companies may offer it - and it makes little sense not to, to be fair, particularly on quiet trains at the weekends when the space is available and it frees up a seat in standard - but standard class staff travel is, per the RSTL terms and conditions, only valid in standard class.

Using that argument presumably weekend first is unavailable with 16-25 railcard discounted tickets as the railcard only gives a discount on walk-up fares (the only ones permitted to upgrade) in standard class?

 

[Merseysider]

Using that argument presumably weekend first is unavailable with 16-25 railcard discounted tickets as the railcard only gives a discount on walk-up fares (the only ones permitted to upgrade) in standard class?

Well no, you know as well as everyone else, that isn’t a valid argument as railcard discounted tickets aren’t explicitly excluded from being used with Weekend First.

 

[ainsworth74]

Surely this is just another manifestation of CrossCountry's slightly odd-ball approach to Weekend First whereby they have a policy of declining extra money offered by passengers? Standard Class AP holders not being able to upgrade to Weekend First (officially anyway I've come across very few TM's that actually enforce the rule) sounds rather like what's policy here for Standard Class Staff Travel holders. I could understand (in either case) a policy of "Subject to space with priority given to those with walk-up/non-staff tickets" but a blanket ban just seems nonsensical. You have someone in an empty first class carriage who is willing to give you £15 on top of what they've paid but you'd rather take nothing (because few will pay the full upgrade price)?!

 

[tiptoptaff]

Surely this is just another manifestation of CrossCountry's slightly odd-ball approach to Weekend First whereby they have a policy of declining extra money offered by passengers? Standard Class AP holders not being able to upgrade to Weekend First (officially anyway I've come across very few TM's that actually enforce the rule) sounds rather like what's policy here for Standard Class Staff Travel holders. I could understand (in either case) a policy of "Subject to space with priority given to those with walk-up/non-staff tickets" but a blanket ban just seems nonsensical. You have someone in an empty first class carriage who is willing to give you £15 on top of what they've paid but you'd rather take nothing (because few will pay the full upgrade price)?!

Indeed - on the occasions I've used XC the upgrade far outweighs the fare I've paid at Staff travel rate - for example, I did Reading to Leamington last year which was £11.35 rtn each for my and partner - we paid an additional £10 each, each way, for the weekend 1st. A total of £62.70 instead of £22.70. for sake of rounding, they've got 3 times the income. As to why they'd deny it to anyone I don't know - whatever ticket they held in the first place.

 

[bkhtele]

Never had a problem upgrading to weekend first on Xc

 

[Muzer]

Surely this is just another manifestation of CrossCountry's slightly odd-ball approach to Weekend First whereby they have a policy of declining extra money offered by passengers? Standard Class AP holders not being able to upgrade to Weekend First (officially anyway I've come across very few TM's that actually enforce the rule) sounds rather like what's policy here for Standard Class Staff Travel holders. I could understand (in either case) a policy of "Subject to space with priority given to those with walk-up/non-staff tickets" but a blanket ban just seems nonsensical. You have someone in an empty first class carriage who is willing to give you £15 on top of what they've paid but you'd rather take nothing (because few will pay the full upgrade price)?!

Tell that to the TM who refused to sell us a weekend first on an advance on a Manchester to Southampton run which was a 170 vice Voyager as far as Birmingham... God, that was awful.

 

[Haywain]

Tell that to the TM who refused to sell us a weekend first on an advance on a Manchester to Southampton run which was a 170 vice Voyager as far as Birmingham... God, that was awful.

CrossCountry do not allow Standard Advances to upgrade.

CrossCountry

Priced at either £5.00, £10.00, £15.00 or £20.00 depending on the journey being made. Available to holders of valid Standard Class tickets on board the train, and subject to space being available in First Class.

If purchasing the ticket at the station it is possible to purchase the upgrade in advance and reserve a seat, but a seat is not guaranteed if customer chooses to travel on an alternative service.

Please note customers holding Standard Class Advance fares cannot purchase the First Class upgrade. Customers should purchase a First Class Advance ticket for their journey if they are looking to travel in First Class.

 

[ainsworth74]

Tell that to the TM who refused to sell us a weekend first on an advance on a Manchester to Southampton run which was a 170 vice Voyager as far as Birmingham... God, that was awful.

CrossCountry do not allow Standard Advances to upgrade.

As Haywain says the policy is very clear. They do not allow Standard AP's to upgrade. Which is crazy to my mind and is only enforced by a very few TM's in my experience but that is the policy. I assume they believe that people will by First APs instead of Standard APs but I strongly suspect that people will simply either lump it in standard or travel using an alternative means of transport. Certainly I will usually only by First APs on XC on a weekend if the difference is less than the upgrade otherwise I'll either just travel standard or take my chances with the TM (who nine times out of ten will just sell the upgrade).

But, in any event, considering the above policy I can well believe that XC have taken a similar view with holders of staff travel facilities and most likely the majority of TM's just don't enforce the policy.

 

[Muzer]

Yes, I agree; I was just replying to your point that you'd rarely seen a TM enforce it! The point is that when you most need a weekend first is when the train's really busy, and if you can't rely on getting one it's better to just take your chances in standard rather than risk getting kicked out of first and having no seat at all.

 

[jon0844]

Surely this is just another manifestation of CrossCountry's slightly odd-ball approach to Weekend First whereby they have a policy of declining extra money offered by passengers? Standard Class AP holders not being able to upgrade to Weekend First (officially anyway I've come across very few TM's that actually enforce the rule) sounds rather like what's policy here for Standard Class Staff Travel holders. I could understand (in either case) a policy of "Subject to space with priority given to those with walk-up/non-staff tickets" but a blanket ban just seems nonsensical. You have someone in an empty first class carriage who is willing to give you £15 on top of what they've paid but you'd rather take nothing (because few will pay the full upgrade price)?!

It is quite mad. Recently I upgraded on VTWC for a trip to Manchester and first class was near empty, and I already knew the weekend catering offering was minimal (but you're getting the nicer seat/tables) but I was quite shocked how bad it was. One trolley run the whole trip, with the offer of water, some juices or tea/coffee. As I said, one opportunity the whole journey. Some of the other people went to the fridge to get morewater. The snack was a blueberry muffin. That was it. And, remember, just the one.

They don't do fizzy drinks anymore. I thought it was just coke (sugar tax) but, no, no diet drinks either. At least on weekends anyway.

I wrote in to say that I thought £20 was quite a lot for one bottle of water and a muffin, but that I knew it was complimentary (so there was no actual 'loss') and they pretty much said tough. They'd pass on my feedback and hope I enjoyed my next journey.

Next time I'd probably stick to standard, so that's £50 less for Virgin (2 adults + child).

 

[Mag_seven]

It is quite mad. Recently I upgraded on VTWC for a trip to Manchester and first class was near empty, and I already knew the weekend catering offering was minimal (but you're getting the nicer seat/tables) but I was quite shocked how bad it was. One trolley run the whole trip, with the offer of water, some juices or tea/coffee. As I said, one opportunity the whole journey. Some of the other people went to the fridge to get morewater. The snack was a blueberry muffin. That was it. And, remember, just the one.

They don't do fizzy drinks anymore. I thought it was just coke (sugar tax) but, no, no diet drinks either. At least on weekends anyway.

I wrote in to say that I thought £20 was quite a lot for one bottle of water and a muffin, but that I knew it was complimentary (so there was no actual 'loss') and they pretty much said tough. They'd pass on my feedback and hope I enjoyed my next journey.

Next time I'd probably stick to standard, so that's £50 less for Virgin (2 adults + child).

Yes its really disappointing the way the VTWC "weekend complimentary offer" has declined. You used to get several rounds of tea/coffee etc and a "snack box". You must get the odd "full first class" ticket holder at the weekend as well who must gawp at the difference between what they get at the weekend compared to during the week!

 

[yorkie]

I've had the same issue previously when travelling on XC on a non-safeguarded PRIV ticket - but no other operator has ever had an issue. Perhaps its a company policy? After all, they don't have to offer Weekend first at all...

I've never heard of any operator giving passengers grief over weekend upgrades... except XC, who seem to have all sorts of exclusions, which most of their Train Managers (rightly and sensibly) seem to ignore, based on my experience, and that of other people I know.

XC's policies, including not allowing Advance ticket holders the right to upgrade, are utterly bonkers and counterproductive, especially as 1st is usually deserted while Standard is typically full & standing on many weekend services.

So good on the majority of XC's TM's who display common sense! However there'll always be the odd one or two who will look for any excuse not to take passengers money and send them back to standard.

 

[Geswedey]

I have had response from an XC customer service manager who confirms that Standard priv ticket holders and free pass holders are entitled to upgrade to Weekend First and that this would be rebriefed to on train staff

 

[Mag_seven]

I have had response from an XC customer service manager who confirms that Standard priv ticket holders and free pass holders are entitled to upgrade to Weekend First and that this would be rebriefed to on train staff

Thanks for clearing that up.