We haven't got a licence.....?

[Oxfordblues]

I heard of a passenger in the Quiet Carriage on an HST who was loudly talking on his mobile phone when a fellow-traveller asked him to switch it off. He twice refused and carried on talking. The other chap then grabbed the phone, walked down the carriage and threw it out of the window. That was in the 1990s. Today of course there are no open windows for this purpose!

 

[al78]

I heard of a passenger in the Quiet Carriage on an HST who was loudly talking on his mobile phone when a fellow-traveller asked him to switch it off. He twice refused and carried on talking. The other chap then grabbed the phone, walked down the carriage and threw it out of the window. That was in the 1990s. Today of course there are no open windows for this purpose!

As tempting as it is to do that, in this day and age that would probably result in having your face smashed in.

 

[DelW]

Is this true? The FAQ - which is not actually the text of the Communications Act - speaks of plugging into "mains". Depending on definitions here... I need to read the act but would be questioning..

A diesel or battery rail service, ship or aircraft with a power socket is not connecting to the grid - it does provide mains frequency and voltage - but is that "mains"? Is it battery operated (battery train), stretching further, is diesel a battery in that it is not connected to the grid.

Ditto for the 5V DC USB socket, that is not "mains" voltage (or frequency). Surely not mains.

And an electric train... Is that USB socket mains? .. I would say not.

Does this suggest that, on (say) a class 80x, you'd be legit using the 13A socket as long as the train was on diesel, but you'd have to disconnect if the pan goes up? But you'd be legit again if you change to the USB?

It suggests that the technology has got rather ahead of the wording of the legislation (which is probably not uncommon in many areas of life).

 

[Krokodil]

Does this suggest that, on (say) a class 80x, you'd be legit using the 13A socket as long as the train was on diesel, but you'd have to disconnect if the pan goes up?

In my experience once the pan goes up on an 80x the touchscreen is unusable while plugged in anyway.

 

[RGM654]

Is this true? The FAQ - which is not actually the text of the Communications Act - speaks of plugging into "mains". Depending on definitions here... I need to read the act but would be questioning..

A diesel or battery rail service, ship or aircraft with a power socket is not connecting to the grid - it does provide mains frequency and voltage - but is that "mains"? Is it battery operated (battery train), stretching further, is diesel a battery in that it is not connected to the grid.

Ditto for the 5V DC USB socket, that is not "mains" voltage (or frequency). Surely not mains.

And an electric train... Is that USB socket mains? .. I would say not.

Conventionally a "supply mains" is an electrical supply not specific a particular item of equipment. So an electrical supply running along a railway coach with a socket outlet by each seat should count as mains. But whether that applies in the context of TV licensing is another question.

 

[AlterEgo]

I was sitting in 1st Class on a XC service from Penzance yesterday morning. Around 10 minutes into the journey the usual clearly audible playing of Tik Tok videos started from a nearby fellow traveller. The train manager was in the 1st Class carriage, went to him and in all seriousness said, "we don't have a licence for live entertainment, have you got some headphones?" I was amazed. A licence, is that right? Blimey, that would have caused a riot on some trains I've caught recently! Yes, the fellow traveller did have headphones and he put them in.

Job done. The TM's dealt with obnoxious behaviour and got it to stop without directly calling out the passenger. Gold star.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Conventionally a "supply mains" is an electrical supply not specific a particular item of equipment. So an electrical supply running along a railway coach with a socket outlet by each seat should count as mains. But whether that applies in the context of TV licensing is another question.

I can watch BBC i player on a computer or laptop anywhere plugged into the mains or not, I only have to confirm I have a tv licence, I dont believe this talk about it been plugged into the mains supply is accurate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

He was being creative. They’ll be saying you cannot watch TV on the train because it needs a licence and XC doesn’t have one!

One can watch TV where one likes provided a licence is held at home and the unit is powered only by its own internal batteries. So technically if plugged into a train socket it would not be legal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

I can watch BBC i player on a computer or laptop anywhere plugged into the mains or not, I only have to confirm I have a tv licence, I dont believe this talk about it been plugged into the mains supply is accurate.

It's what the law on TV licensing says.

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Job done. The TM's dealt with obnoxious behaviour and got it to stop without directly calling out the passenger. Gold star.

Indeed.

I don't think what he said was entirely incorrect, either - certainly things like Performing Rights Society (PRS) licences do apply when playing (or permitting to be played) music in a public place, regardless of whether the device is owned by the business or a customer. There have certainly been legal cases where they (the PRS) have sued employers for permitting their employees to play the radio out loud (rather than using headphones) without such a licence.

Personally I think signage would be of value. At least it's not possible for people to think it's genuinely OK, and you can passively aggressively tap one if needed. Same with "what happens if the reservations aren't displayed".

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

One can watch TV where one likes provided a licence is held at home and the unit is powered only by its own internal batteries. So technically if plugged into a train socket it would not be legal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==



It's what the law on TV licensing says.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==



Indeed.

I don't think what he said was entirely incorrect, either - certainly things like Performing Rights Society (PRS) licences do apply when playing (or permitting to be played) music in a public place, regardless of whether the device is owned by the business or a customer. There have certainly been legal cases where they (the PRS) have sued employers for permitting their employees to play the radio out loud (rather than using headphones) without such a licence.

Personally I think signage would be of value. At least it's not possible for people to think it's genuinely OK, and you can passively aggressively tap one if needed. Same with "what happens if the reservations aren't displayed".

All it says is your licence covers you on any device, no mention of mains supply etc?

 

[Energy]

All it says is your licence covers you on any device, no mention of mains supply etc?

If you are watching away from home on a device powered solely by its own internal batteries (i.e. it is not connected to an aerial or plugged into the mains) you will be covered by your TV Licence at your home address.

This also applies to students as long as your out-of-term address is covered by a licence.

[source - TV Licencing]

 

[Howardh]

At Bolton Trinity St, they have a TV on in the waiting room usually showing BBC programmes; wouldn't they require (a) a TV licence and (b) public performance/copyright licence or simlilar? And if so, have they got them? One would ask why they waste money on those when the TV is totally unnecessary?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

[source - TV Licencing]

This means - if you are in your caravan with a TV, if your TV is run off the caravan battery it's OK, but if your caravan is plugged into the mains it isn't? How absurd!

 

[Bluejays]

Very clever. White lie to defuse possible tension. Good on the tm

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

There should be a special place in hell for the sort of individual who thinks it acceptable to blast noise out of their mobile phone on speaker when using trains, buses etc.

That is all.

+1. I'm at the stage where i really hope that there's an advertising/publicity campaign at stations around it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At Bolton Trinity St, they have a TV on in the waiting room usually showing BBC programmes; wouldn't they require (a) a TV licence and (b) public performance/copyright licence or simlilar?

Yes.

And if so, have they got them?

I'd be astonished if they didn't. Enforcement on businesses is even stricter than on private individuals, and PRS (Performing Rights Society) are quite litigious too.

One would ask why they waste money on those when the TV is totally unnecessary?

Clearly they think it worth the money.

This means - if you are in your caravan with a TV, if your TV is run off the caravan battery it's OK, but if your caravan is plugged into the mains it isn't? How absurd!

It is a bit silly to be honest. But the law is often, as the phrase goes, an ass.

 

[Howardh]

Very clever. White lie to defuse possible tension. Good on the tm

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+1. I'm at the stage where i really hope that there's an advertising/publicity campaign at stations around it.

Those that play loud music in public areas, like a bus or train carriage, should be charged with performing without a licence just as they would if they ran a business playing without one. And notices to that effect posted in all carriages!!

 

[Energy]

I'd be astonished if they didn't. Enforcement on businesses is even stricter than on private individuals, and PRS (Performing Rights Society) are quite litigious too.

Public broadcasters license the music so the end user, even businesses, do not need to for anything played over TV.

PRS applies in this case as the passenger was watching TikTok which will only have licensed the music for personal viewing.

This means - if you are in your caravan with a TV, if your TV is run off the caravan battery it's OK, but if your caravan is plugged into the mains it isn't? How absurd!

No, the battery must be internal to the device so you aren't covered whatever you are plugged into.

 

[Trackman]

This means - if you are in your caravan with a TV, if your TV is run off the caravan battery it's OK, but if your caravan is plugged into the mains it isn't? How absurd!

Yes- you can use mains in a caravan, just as long no-one at your home address is watching live TV.
You have to fill out a form out too.
There's a thing about students too, not looking into to it, this is all very confusing.

https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ30

You'll need to buy a TV Licence for your static caravan, mobile home or moveable chalet if:

• anyone, at the same time, is watching TV channels on any TV service, watching live TV on streaming services, or using BBC iPlayer* at your main licensed address.
• the caravan or mobile home is your main residence.

Pay for a TV Licence

If you don’t need a licence for your caravan or mobile please complete a Non-simultaneous use declaration form below:


Non-simultaneous use declaration form - English (PDF 92 KB opens in a new window)


Non-simultaneous use declaration form - Welsh (PDF 60 KB opens in a new window

Download Adobe Reader for free



Please print and sign the form then post it to the address on the form.


These rules only apply if:

• Your caravan, mobile home or chalet is capable of being moved by being towed or transported on a motor vehicle or trailer.
• You have a TV Licence at your home address.

Please do not use this form if your second property is a permanent structure.



*A licence is not needed to watch S4C programmes on demand.

 

[IrishDave]

In my experience once the pan goes up on an 80x the touchscreen is unusable while plugged in anyway.

This might sound strange, but try taking the case off your phone / tablet when you plug it in, and holding the device directly in your hand - hopefully you'll find using the touchscreen to be better. (I certainly find it a lot more usable, as have a few friends when I've suggested it to them!)

I think it's something to do with the earthing - if you're not directly touching the phone (but rather only touching the case) then you're not earthed to the same earth as the phone, and there's a very small potential/voltage difference between you and the screen, and that sends the touchscreen haywire.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's something to do with the earthing - if you're not directly touching the phone (but rather only touching the case) then you're not earthed to the same earth as the phone, and there's a very small potential/voltage difference between you and the screen, and that sends the touchscreen haywire.

That's indeed the issue. Cheap non-earthed chargers have the same effect even in a domestic socket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

Those that play loud music in public areas, like a bus or train carriage, should be charged with performing without a licence just as they would if they ran a business playing without one. And notices to that effect posted in all carriages!!

It's not a crime (nor is any other copyright infringement), but PRS are very big on sueing if people don't cough up the due licence fee!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

Public broadcasters license the music so the end user, even businesses, do not need to for anything played over TV.

The PRS disagrees:

Radio & TV

Playing the radio in your business has benefited both customers and staff since it was first introduced to factory workers in 1940.

pplprs.co.uk

You will need a music licence for the radio, in the UK, if you are playing the radio in your business. Whether this be from internet radio usage or from other devices. Under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, permission is needed from the relevant copyright holders – those people who create music – in order to play or perform music in public. Playing the radio in your business is classed as a public performance whether this is for your customers, your staff or both.
If you are playing the radio, or other channels from a TV in your business, a TV licence allows you to receive the broadcast signal to the television within your business. However, it does not give you permission to play or perform the music within the broadcast. TheMusicLicence gives you that permission, for virtually all commercially released music available.

Like with YouTube etc (notably my current employer allows YouTube on its computers, but makes it clear it must never be played out loud e.g. in meetings and presentations for this reason), the licence to the TV companies is for the programmes to be watched in private settings. In a public setting it's on top.

Is that fair? Probably not, but life often isn't fair.

 

[Mag_seven]

This thread has run its course - if anyone wants to discuss anything else such as TV Licencing or related matters then please start a new thread elsewhere.

thanks all.