WCML vs ECML

[FGWadmirer]

Hello,

I'm planning to travel to Scotland at some point and not having travelled on either the west or east coast main lines, I was wondering which you think is the better?

Forgetting price differences, is one more scenic? Maybe Virgin is a better TOC to travel with than NXEC? Is the journey time worth considering?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Darandio]

Something that always stirs up a good debate this one. My preference would be ECML, simply a personal point of view having grown up around the line but they both have some good parts. Some of the scenery on the WCML is stunning but equally, once the ECML gets into Northumberland and the border area, that is equally good too.

 

[90019]

I'd say ECML;
There are some good scenic bits of the route (can't remember which bits )
AFAIK, it's faster (correct me if I'm wrong)
And the 125s/225s are nicer trains, i think.

Oh, the ECML is having less problems just now as well

 

[me123]

ECML:

Pros; (arguably) better rolling stock, better service, scenic North of Newcastle
Cons; longer to Glasgow, not as scenic South of Newcastle, busier

WCML:

Pros; quickest journeys to Glasgow, not extremely busy, lovely scenery North of Preston, the tilting is quite impressive in places!
Cons; small windows, no at-seat service to Standard Class passengers

I'd honestly suggest, if you're going to Glasgow, to go up on one and down on the other if you have the time for the ECML. Both are nice journeys. If you're going to Edinburgh, you'll have to change at Preston/Warrington on the WCML so it's a bit of a hastle, and quite a long journey. If you're going further North, again I'd stick to the ECML as it's easier to change at Edinburgh than to cross Glasgow to Queen Street Station.

Also, the (Super) Off Peak return is relatively good value and allows flexibility. You can travel on either route, and quite a few others (such as via the MML).

 

[87015]

ECML. No Virgin rubbish.

 

[90019]

Actually, that's a point, where are you travelling to?

 

[Mintona]

WCML. Bendy Pendos for the win.

 

[FGWadmirer]

Actually, that's a point, where are you travelling to?

Well I was thinking of doing a trip up to somewhere beautiful like Kyle of Lochalsh, so therefore Inverness. I know there are a few NXEC services direct, but otherwise whichever is easier for that.

 

[90019]

Well I was thinking of doing a trip up to somewhere beautiful like Kyle of Lochalsh, so therefore Inverness. I know there are a few NXEC services direct, but otherwise whichever is easier for that.

I would say go NXEC direct, unless you want to stop off in Edinburgh or do the trip across from Glasgow.

 

[GNERman]

ECML-Nicer trains but worse company i'm afraid...

 

[Galvanize]

I'd say go by ECML, but that can be more expensive than the WCML! Whenever I've gone to visit my grandparents up in Dundee, nearly all the times i've gone it's been via the ECML. I did go via the WCML and Glasgow a few times though (one was due to engineering works between Edinburgh and Newcastle, and before GNER thought of the Tyne Valley).

If you do choose the ECML, your advised to reserve a seat, as the trains can and usually do get really busy, especially south of York! I remember back in the year 2000 during the Hatfield hoo-har, the train was literally wedged all the way through, there were even people standing in FC. Me and my family got seats, but it was literally packed out between London and Newcastle, as the previous TWO trains had been cancelled!

 

[Pumbaa]

WCML:

Pros; quickest journeys to Glasgow, not extremely busy, lovely scenery North of Preston, the tilting is quite impressive in places!
Cons; small windows, no at-seat service to Standard Class passengers

Standard do get a trolley me123, although it is a relatively new introduction.

I'd shout for WCML going north, ECML coming south. Just my preference. Or whichever is cheaper!

 

[Metroland]

WCML is more scenic and has more interest railway wise. ECML is quite nice/interesting around Tyneside and Berwick, most of the rest is boring scenically and flat. Although its pleasant enough in places.

As the man says, go one way, come back the other!

 

[djw1981]

I beg to differ.... ECML is lovely from Doncaster north - industrial power station cooling towers, then the verdant vale of York, the rolling hills of Cpo Durham, then teh fantastic coast up through Northumberland and Berwick. The WCML has the big hills of the Lakes and Southern Uplands, but Preston-London is frankly boring. So consider your journey times. Ideally you want Doncaster / Warrington north to be in the light on either route.

 

[mbonwick]

WCML only has 7miles within sight of the coast!

 

[me123]

Standard do get a trolley me123, although it is a relatively new introduction.

Didn't know that, but I don't travel on weekdays so I wouldn't know, would I? I prefer the walk to the buffet, though(!).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well I was thinking of doing a trip up to somewhere beautiful like Kyle of Lochalsh, so therefore Inverness. I know there are a few NXEC services direct, but otherwise whichever is easier for that.

I'd go on the ECML directly Northbound, and back on a Scotrail to Glasgow and cross the city to get the Southbound Pendolino. Or vice versa, of course. If you do it in Summer, you'll get the Chieftain (guaranteed HST, of course!) all the way in daylight, which is good for the journey North of Perth.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Would you consider a sleeper train to Inverness before travelling on to Kyle? Admittedly, the scenic element may be lost a wee bit, but how about being served breakfast as you survey the highlands in all their morning glory (pardon the expression)?

 

[jamesontheroad]

Way off the topic of the original post, but my recommendation (beyond ECML one way and WCML the other) is make a brief visit to Skye by bus / bike your connection between the Kyle of Lochalsh and Mallaig. There is good bus service along that relatively unpopulated slice of the island (the Sleat Peninsular) and even if you don't venture further 'inland' on Skye, an itinerary Glasgow / Edinburgh -> Inverness -> Kyle -> (bridge) -> Armadale -> (ferry) -> Mallaig -> Glasgow will mean you'll avoid back tracking and see both of the highlands most spectacular railways.

As for the OP... I live in Glasgow and much prefer the ECML to the WCML. NXEC are nose diving in my opinion, but the mk4s are a world away from the horrible cramped Pendos... however I use the ECML more out of necessity because I use it to get to Peterborough for the X1 bus across to Norfolk. Whenever I have to go to London I take the sleeper. Day trips by sleeper to London are a dream.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

West Coast Mainline wins for scenery outright - although I must point out that ironically the line only passes the coastline for about 1 mile - where Morecambe Bay is in view in between Lancaster and Oxenholme.

You have said you want scenery - after Preston/Lancaster some of the scenery is excellent as you pass through the Lake District and iver the border into Scotland. The mountains would look superb during the wintry conditions expected.

 

[djw1981]

With the new pendo timings, a good day out can be had by pendo (esp a ssaturday) if you book ahead - less than £8 eachw ay too.

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

I don't mind the pendolinos that much to be honest, however there are two things that annoy me about them:

(1)Windows. If you are unlucky you can end up with half a window to look out of, and sometimes just a wall. This infuriates me to ne end.

(2) The toilets absolutely stink rotten - so don't stand near one - especially if someone has been for a poo or a really strong smelling wii.

 

[me123]

(1)Windows. If you are unlucky you can end up with half a window to look out of, and sometimes just a wall. This infuriates me to ne end.

I've always wondered if this does really make the trains safer, and if it does, is it worth it? If you look at the seat map of the Pendolino, it's scary how many seats have "restricted or no view". Clearly, the train was built with First Class in mind and, to me, it's not fair that you pay more to not be looking at a plastic wall.

(2) The toilets absolutely stink rotten - so don't stand near one - especially if someone has been for a poo or a really strong smelling wii.

This has never come across for me on the Pendolino all that much. Only in the vestibule areas where there are toilets, although it's unacceptable that there is any toilet smell, of course. Voyagers are worse in my opinion, although coach D seems to be the safest bet in my experience (perhaps because there's no toilet in that carriage?)

 

[90019]

a really strong smelling wii.

Being from the generation of games consoles doesn't show up at all does it?

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

The whole issue of the horrendous smells comeing out of the toilet on both the voyagers and pendolinos is quite well known. I think its worse on some trains than others - or more of a case of when they get absolutey battered they tend to smell worse. I have been on some that are that bad the smell gets into the aisle. Not pleasant.

Yeah the whole window thing on the pendos really irriates me too.

 

[ukrob]

I have never been on the WCML in the last few years without standard having a trolley service as well as the shop. Have I just been lucky?

 

[37401]

ECML, none of that virgin crap plus the seats are nicer to sit on plus the staff are nicer

 

[Spaceflower]

ECML, its quicker.

The scenery gets pretty monotonous on the ecml though. Northumberland, bar the borders bridge and between berwick and dunbar is overated imo. If scenery was your primary concern, i'd go wcml. If, however, like me you rapidly tire of endless streams of roads, fields and dodgy looking villages, go with the quickest option.