WCML today

[Pumbaa]

What's going on? Every service seems to be late, half the Liverpools have been cancelled this morning and there are at least 3 390s sitting empty on Edge Hill which is, err, unusual to say the least.

Yours of currently stuck at Stafford!

 

[graham43404]

I have just had a look on National Rail Enquiries. Nothing on service disruptions and currently showing a good service for Virgin, which is obviously not the case!

Hopefully someone else will be able to help you more with this one.

 

[rail-britain]

Probably a knock-on from the earlier cable theft, which is continuing to affect LM services, still showing as services disrupted by vandalism
Virgin Trains services got back to near normal several hours ago

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Might be wrong but according to someone on Facebook it was cable theft between Crewe. Feel free to correct me.

 

[Pumbaa]

NRE says vandalism, I suspect it must be at Crewe or Liverpool as this is where the disruption is centred. Even the LMs are running late to/from Birmingham.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I heard something earlier today that there was a signalling problem at Winsford and that Liverpool and Warrington bound trains were affected.

 

[martinsh]

Cable theft between Hartford and Acton Bridge is what I heard. Seems to be back to normal again now (almost !)

Note

1) as usual LM used it as an excuse to COMPLETELY cancel half the Birmingham - Liverpools, instead of just terminating them all at Crewe

2) oh for the Frodsham curve !

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Cable theft between Hartford and Acton Bridge is what I heard. Seems to be back to normal again now (almost !)

Note

1) as usual LM used it as an excuse to COMPLETELY cancel half the Birmingham - Liverpools, instead of just terminating them all at Crewe

2) oh for the Frodsham curve !

Quite right!
Still in the aspirational plans for Halton Council.
http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklyne...nd-marina-planned-for-runcorn-55368-29623308/

And some money has been allocated for a 'feasibility study'
http://www.grahamevansmp.com/news/264-halton-curve-reinstatement-moves-a-step-closer.html

 

[Jonesy]

Hi all,

Just to give my two-pennies worth with regards to the LM problems from this morning (and last night)...

I was travelling on the 21:36 from Birmingham to Liverpool (on the 20/10), which firstly got delayed at Wolverhampton for approx 30 minutes due to, apparently, overhead wires being down between Stafford and Penkridge. We then got going for Liverpool...that is until Crewe, where we promptly arrived in platform 7. I went to see the guard and asked her what to do for onward connections - she was not aware the train had been cancelled until I told her that plaform 7 is a bay platform and thus going northbound would have meant going southbound out of the station first (which I know, while possible, would be highly unlikely).

The Virgin staff gave a number of reasons, ranging from overhead line problems at Weaver Junction to cable theft at Winsford (which is what I beleive has happened). No buses or taxis had been arranged until our train arrived, at which point they started to arrange for buses but said they would be about an hour. Bearing in mind this was about 23:15, the train should have left Crewe at 22:30ish and a lot of people had been waiting for the 21:30 service which had also been cancelled, then as you can imagine there were a lot of unhappy people! Communication between London Midland and Virgin was not the best - these types of incidents are not the fault of the railways, but no-one seemed to know what was going on and bearing in mind some had been waiting for almost two hours then it was getting a little fiesty. One person had to get back to West Kirkby - I dread to think what time they would have got home. Virgin staff then said that anyone for Winsford, Hartford or Acton Bridge would have to get a taxi and claim it back from London Midland, as the buses would only go to Runcorn and Liverpool Stations. As I live in Winsford, taxi it was - well, waking the missus up and asking her to come and get me, along with two other chaps who we gave a lift to.

At this point there were numerous freights and the like queuing on Crewe Underpass, so I have no idea what time any of them got going. Interestingly, the sleeper (I presume empty stock) went past Winsford this morning at about 06:45, heading north, so that gives you an idea of the delay. I travel by train at least once a week, and delays are part and parcel of the experience, but for the first time last night I did feel communication between the relevant TOC's were a little lax. Having said that, if the guard on our train from Birmingham did not know the train was to be cancelled at Crewe then I am not surprised!

I think everything should be back to normal now for LM - fingers crossed anyway - Winsford is a difficult place to travel to and from when London Midland cannot run services !

 

[rail-britain]

Interestingly, the sleeper (I presume empty stock) went past Winsford this morning at about 06:45, heading north, so that gives you an idea of the delay

Not empty, it was still in service and also ended up stuck in the queue
Arrived Glasgow just after 11:00

 

[Jonesy]

Not empty, it was still in service and also ended up stuck in the queue
Arrived Glasgow just after 11:00

Thanks for the info - at least they had chance to have a lie in ! I only assumed it was empty because of the time it passed me this morning (it must have been held at Crewe for an awfully long time!).

 

[The Planner]

TRUST incident 300942 - Winsford - Weaver Jn cable cut. Sitting at 17501 minutes delay as of 1440 today. Temporary block working in place on the up and downs until 0935 this morning.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

0830 Euston-Glasgow 57 late into Glasgow, turned round in 10 mins, but still 30 late near Lancaster on the 1340 back.

1251 Edinburgh-Birmingham 105 late at Penrith.

Still plenty of disruption from overnight.

For diversions round the Hartford area, why wouldn't Voyagers run from Crewe via Chester to Warrington?

 

[ChrisTheRef]

0830 Euston-Glasgow 57 late into Glasgow, turned round in 10 mins, but still 30 late near Lancaster on the 1440 back.

1251 Edinburgh-Birmingham 105 late at Penrith.

Still plenty of disruption from overnight.

For diversions round the Hartford area, why wouldn't Voyagers run from Crewe via Chester to Warrington?

Possibly the train crew not signing Chester-Warrington

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Possibly the train crew not signing Chester-Warrington

It has been a regular diversion route during WCRM.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

OK - what about train crew hours ?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Well the 0820 BHM EDB is showing as both starting at Wolves, and missing out Warrington, so I guess it went via Manchester Picc. Arrived into Edb at around 1425, 2 hours late! (hence the 1252 being so late, as mentioned earlier).

 

[dk1]

It has been a regular diversion route during WCRM.

Only lasts 6mths without using it. Refresher then goes in & until given crews no longer sign the route.

 

[merlodlliw]

Quite right!
Still in the aspirational plans for Halton Council.
http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklyne...nd-marina-planned-for-runcorn-55368-29623308/

And some money has been allocated for a 'feasibility study'
http://www.grahamevansmp.com/news/264-halton-curve-reinstatement-moves-a-step-closer.html

Would not West Cheshire & Chester County Council also be involved as well as Halton Council?, Frodsham is in WC&C.

We have spent years here, many of us a bloody nuisance to the Assembly or Welsh Govt as it likes to be called, but it looks very much like our determination for the Wrexham/Chester redoubling is to be announced on Nov 3rd in Cardiff,the feasibility study is a start, any idea of costs for the Halton curve,the Wrexham redoubling, about nine miles of it is costed at £ 42 M,of which £28M was ring fenced from 2009 budget,the ring fencing was due to a combined supporters/A.Ms/M.Ps/ pressure group demand to the Minister,as it was known the money may well have been milked.
It did help having ATW & NR state this was North Wales worst pinch point, & the buying in of extra buses for Arriva by WAG to give a 12 minute service to Chester Station & Return ,due to demand from Wrexham,had to be addressed.

Bob

 

[Squaddie]

We have spent years here, many of us a bloody nuisance to the Assembly or Welsh Govt as it likes to be called...

[diversion]
Bob, you should know (and probably do) that the Welsh Assembly and the Welsh Government are separate institutions. The Assembly is the legislature, whereas the Government is the executive (akin to the difference between Parliament and the Government at Westminster). Furthermore, the Welsh Assembly Government was renamed the Welsh Government in May 2011, specifically in order to make clearer the distinction between these two bodies.
[/diversion]

 

[merlodlliw]

[diversion]
Bob, you should know (and probably do) that the Welsh Assembly and the Welsh Government are separate institutions. The Assembly is the legislature, whereas the Government is the executive (akin to the difference between Parliament and the Government at Westminster). Furthermore, the Welsh Assembly Government was renamed the Welsh Government in May 2011, specifically in order to make clearer the distinction between these two bodies.
[/diversion]

Yes I was aware,but I am most grateful to you for chapter & verse,this will now allow me to understand better the inner sanctums of Cardiff Bay.Again I am most appreciative of your response,I will now understand better that an A.M is an Assembly member & a Minister is elected A.M then promoted to W.G

Bob

 

[Squaddie]

Yes I was aware,but I am most grateful to you for chapter & verse,this will now allow me to understand better the inner sanctums of Cardiff Bay.

My apologies. When you said that the Assembly "likes to be known as" the Welsh Government I assumed that you didn't know that they were different institutions.

I will now understand better that an A.M is an Assembly member & a Minister is elected A.M then promoted to W.G.

That's right. Just as an MP is a member of Parliament and a Minister is an elected MP who is promoted to a position within the UK government.

 

[merlodlliw]

My apologies. When you said that the Assembly "likes to be known as" the Welsh Government I assumed that you didn't know that they were different institutions.
That's right. Just as an MP is a member of Parliament and a Minister is an elected MP who is promoted to a position within the UK government.

Accepted, my reply was on reflection, a bit harsh,

Bob

 

[The 39 Steps]

I too was at Crewe that night and can add the following.

The 2030 Euston to Preston stood at signal WD167 for 102 minutes waiting for the points to be clipped ahead of it. It arrived at Preston at 0038 (due 2253).

The 2107 Euston to Liverpool Lime Street terminated in Crewe P12.

The 2110 Euston to Preston terminated in Crewe P6 at 2303 (due 2253) and then the set, 390046, went empty to the Down Refuge Siding at 2315. The passengers from this train were transferred to the 2120 Birmingham New Street to Preston which arrived at 2257 (40 minutes late) at P11. It had been held at Wolverhampton P3 until 2222 (41 minutes late) owing to the 1843 Euston to Crewe tripping the OHLE as it went through Rickerscote Overhead Neutral Section. The line had to be examined by the 1900 Bristol Temple Meads to Manchester Piccadilly train. The train departed at 2309 via Chester and got to Preston at 0036 (90 minutes late).

The 1852 Edinburgh to Birmingham New Street had to set back from the signal protecting Weaver Junction to Warrington Bank Quay, that and the next four signals were out of action. The driver did not sign via Chester so the set was left at Warrington Bank Quay.

The 2010 Glasgow Central to Crewe was a double set so could not couple to the set mentioned in the previous paragragh. It travelled via Chester and arrived in Crewe at about 0030 (due 2328). The set was split with one unit going onto the LNWR sidings for overnight servicing, the other to Birmingham New Street to convey the passengers from the service from Edinburgh who had transferred trains at Warrington Bank Quay.

The set left at Warrington Bank Quay was attached to the 2325 ecs from Preston to LNWR Crewe but as this ecs is formed off the (very late) 2120 ex Birmingham New Street it arrived at Crewe at 0235 (due 0031) having travelled via Chester. It moved on to the LNWR sidings immediately!

The 2116 Euston to Inverness train arrived in Crewe P6 at 2342 (6 minutes early) and, as normal, drawing up to the signal at the very north end of the platform to accommodate its 16 coaches. The engine was 90021. At 0048 the coaches were seen moving southwards so I went to investigate. A diesel was now on the front of 90021 and it was propelling the train to get behind the signal just north of the northernmost station footbridge. It had to do this in order to get the route for Manchester. It departed at 0052. It is not known whether it went via Styal or Stockport (I suspect the latter as later trains did this route) but it certaiinly did go via Chat Moss. It was shown passing Springs Branch Junction at 0203 (booked 0030.1/2). The diesel would most likely have been removed at Preston as there is time to do it whilst passengers board and Rail Gourmet load supplies. Also, there would be no reason for the diesel to remain in charge north of Preston. For those who have patiently waited for the identity of the diesel (and this has not, as far as I am aware, been reported anywhere else - I wait for the correction!). The engine was 66528. A Freightliner driver with the booked DBS driver at his side.

The 2350 Euston to Glasgow Central was shown passing Madeley at 0233 (five minutes early). It is next shown passing Crewe at 0556 (188.1/2 minutes late).

 

[kylemore]

Not empty, it was still in service and also ended up stuck in the queue
Arrived Glasgow just after 11:00

A nice lie in then!

 

[rail-britain]

A nice lie in then!

Most likely some passengers will have got off the sleeper at Preston (just after 07:00) or Carlisle (about 09:00) and then travelled on the next day service to Glasgow, thus overtaking the sleeper and arriving 30 minutes earlier

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I too was at Crewe that night and can add the following.

Thanks for the fantastic detail.
Shows the Chester diversionary route is fully utilised where possible.