WCML substations

[RichardAsh1981]

hence lots of 132/33kV substations are referred to as "grid". Does this mean that a 33/xyz connection would be a PT (for primary [distribution] transformer)?

I've never seen that, the labels are just T1, T2 etc. Probably helped by distribution sites being historically more separated into layers - once you know you are at a Primary site, the only sort of transformer is primary from 33kV to 11kV. An 11kV to 400V substation at the same place is often suffixed "Local" and is considered a separate site, not least because the authorisation for access is often different.

Primary sites are also often the oldest - so the naming of "XYZ Grid" substations was a way to avoid confusion when the new Grid substation was added on in the 1930s, the same as when the Super Grid was overlaid in the 1970s.

The other naming used is GSP (Grid Supply Point) for 132kV to 33kV, the historic Grid to Regional Board handover, and BSP (Bulk Supply Point) for 275/400kV to 132kV sites on the super grid.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

I've never seen that, the labels are just T1, T2 etc. Probably helped by distribution sites being historically more separated into layers - once you know you are at a Primary site, the only sort of transformer is primary from 33kV to 11kV. An 11kV to 400V substation at the same place is often suffixed "Local" and is considered a separate site, not least because the authorisation for access is often different.

Primary sites are also often the oldest - so the naming of "XYZ Grid" substations was a way to avoid confusion when the new Grid substation was added on in the 1930s, the same as when the Super Grid was overlaid in the 1970s.

ah how interesting, two different eras of attempting to clarify themselves. I don't think i've come across many substations using the term "Super Grid" in their name apart from Hackney. I often see "main" used as the super grid clarifier (like Rayleigh Main or Norwich Main, there is a Rayleigh Local (132kV) but no Norwich Local)

The other naming used is GSP (Grid Supply Point) for 132kV to 33kV, the historic Grid to Regional Board handover, and BSP (Bulk Supply Point) for 275/400kV to 132kV sites on the super grid.

East Mids and West Mids license areas (right now with NGED) do it the other way around with "GSP" for 275-400kV to 132kV, and "BSP" for 132/33kV. Similarly London Underground say BSP for their 132kV to 11-22kV connections - so the inconsistencies simply mount up. Perhaps lazily, I've been using the term "GSP" for a site where any kind of ESI meets any kind of railway be it 400/25kV or 33/11kV on merseyrail.

I think the more amusing inconsistencies come from trying to differentiate things by picking a different geographic name for additions built onto the same site.

An example I came across recently was on the 132kV line between Chelmsford East and Braintree. In 1993 a new 132/25 substation was put in for the Great Eastern ML. It was and is named "Springfield BR" which delivered a dual circuit 25kV powerline across a field to the railway's "Springfield FS". Fast forward to 2016 and an AT replacement was sought from the nearby Rayleigh to Braintree 400kV line. It is known on the NG side as "Bulls Lodge", on the railway side it was "Boreham ATFS" literally next door on the same site as Springfield FS. Then owing (presumably) to the new station getting built around their, it is now being called "Beaulieu ATFS" - for what it's worth it looks fully constructed but not yet actually in use despite the grid connection apparently coming 10 years ago. Also throughout all of this, the neutral section for Springfield FS is variably referred to "Brick House".

 

[Richard123]

Lots of power quality problems on railway grid supplies these days; Beaulieu isn't the only one, although it has gained a very large harmonic filter (visible on Google Earth) to try and reduce the problem.

I thought it had come into service with limited capacity though...

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Perhaps it has, I wouldn't know. Definitely within the last year or two a lot more equipment got built at the site but I admit it's hard to tell if it's connecting to the OLE when skipping past at 80mph.

Is it actually for any autotransformer feeding or is it just going to be classic both ways? I had assumed the new FS at Beaulieu was to do with making some level of redundancy for the AT feeding out of Pudding Mill Lane. (What is the feeding for an N-2 at Pudding Mill Lane? Does Crowlands still operate on standby?)

AT fittings are in varying states of construction between Gidea Park and Shenfield. And a whole SATS was built a while ago at Shenfield which presumably is not yet doing anything. But this makes me wonder if there is a intention for AT feeding between Shenfield and Beaulieu.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

I saw on another thread that the original Stafford FS is still in use as a hot-standby grid supply/feeder station. Is this also the case for the Rugby and Tamworth? That they can supply the OLE from the old 132/25kV connection or are they totally removed with the site repurposed for the SATS

 

[m0ffy]

I saw on another thread that the original Stafford FS is still in use as a hot-standby grid supply/feeder station. Is this also the case for the Rugby and Tamworth? That they can supply the OLE from the old 132/25kV connection or are they totally removed with the site repurposed for the SATS

Tamworth 132/25 no longer has a transformer, so it’s unlikely to be any use.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

that's a good point, aerial views suggest they were still there all the way until 2021. Could have been out of use longer than that I suppose.

 

[thecrofter]

that's a good point, aerial views suggest they were still there all the way until 2021. Could have been out of use longer than that I suppose.

Tamworth FS became defunct when Brereton South (feeding to Nuneaton MPATS) went AT.
Rugby FS (which only had one feeder back then due to cable damage on the other) was aslo disconnected when Patford Bridge North AT was commissioned. Can't remember the exact dates but your list of Neutral Sections may give the answer.
Stafford FS being the anomly (neutral section removed) but retained as an emergency feed in the unlikely event of the total loss of Brereton.

 

[Elecman]

Speke Feeder is now the in the same Hot Standby facility

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Thank you both! Seems that it's fairly common when AT upgrades take place, that some of the older 132/25 connections remain. Grahame Park on MML, Hayes on GWML, and I think Crowlands has remained on GEML.

Speke Feeder is now the in the same Hot Standby facility

Was Weaver Jnc to Lime Street/Edge Hill taken over by Weaver Jnc ATFS or Willow Park?

 

[thecrofter]

Thank you both! Seems that it's fairly common when AT upgrades take place, that some of the older 132/25 connections remain. Grahame Park on MML, Hayes on GWML, and I think Crowlands has remained on GEML.

Was Weaver Jnc to Lime Street/Edge Hill taken over by Weaver Jnc ATFS or Willow Park?

Weaver ATFS was designed to feed to Lime Street - F9 if memory serves me correct.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Is F9 also normally for crewe-weaver, or for weaver-euxton? (Guessing that the other one is F7?)

 

[thecrofter]

Is F9 also normally for crewe-weaver, or for weaver-euxton? (Guessing that the other one is F7?)

Frodsham/Weaver feeders are numbered F8 & F9 in line with National Grid's nomenclature and the railway convention of numerbering accordingly. @Elecman may have later information than I since Speke has been taken off line after I retired.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Frodsham/Weaver feeders are numbered F8 & F9 in line with National Grid's nomenclature and the railway convention of numerbering accordingly.

Yeah i've seen it vaguely explained that substations assets are numbered even or odd depending on what side of the bus section circuit breaker they lie on - but I've found it quite hard to figure that out from aerial images so I was assuming if something's next to something else it's different by two - but anyway, on to something more interesting

Can't remember the exact dates but your list of Neutral Sections may give the answer.

June 2017 is given as the date of removal for "Newbold" NS which is at Rugby's mileage. Similarly Tamworth's was taken out in May of that year

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Oct 2025 ==

And finally the following Auto Feeder Sectioning Lications (AFSL)

Roade AFSL
Muscott AFSL
Bugbrooke AFSL

Just wondering about these AFSLs Are there any others? They're all between Ashton and Long Buckby Wharf, which - iirc - was the first AT trial site in the 1990s. Does this mean in later rollouts this function was incorporated into the other substations?

 

[thecrofter]

Just wondering about these AFSLs Are there any others? They're all between Ashton and Long Buckby Wharf, which - iirc - was the first AT trial site in the 1990s. Does this mean in later rollouts this function was incorporated into the other substations?

The three Auto Feeder Sectioning Locations were incorporated as you say only for the first AT area trials. The Main Line through Weedon and the Northampton Loop between Ashton and Hillmorton were treated effectively as a 4 track AT site. The AFSLs (which are just OLE switching structures) were designed to give added flexibility to the AF sectioning and provide alterative feeding for the AutoFeeders when operational restrictions necessitated.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

interesting. their placements seem to allow Weedon or Blisworth ATSs to be isolated, or indeed the mainline from the Northampton Loop where the tracks actually meet at Roade. I hadn't appreciated that both the MPATS and junction are a significant distance south of where the alignments join, so it makes sense you'd want a way to fully switch off one or the other.

Does this mean ATF lines can normally only be switched off at neutral sections?

 

[thecrofter]

Does this mean ATF lines can normally only be switched off at neutral sections?

In a word No. As a general rule the ATF is designed to be as continous as practicable but switchable remotely (and with associated OLE Switches for Isolation purposes), so each ATF would have Circuit Breakers at the feeder station, intermediate (ATS) if there was one and the Mid Point. For example, the Up ATF between Leighton Buzzard ATFS and Bourne End MPATS is sectionable into just two sections by Tring ATS. Compare this with the Up Slow road which is sub divided into 10 sections for the same distance.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

How did it end up like that? Is there some reason you need a lot more specific sectioning capability above the slow lines than the fast?

 

[thecrofter]

How did it end up like that? Is there some reason you need a lot more specific sectioning capability above the slow lines than the fast?

I was comparing an ATF (minimal sectioning) to a typical electrified line which is sub-sectioned for operational reasons / wire run lengths / crossovers etc.

 

[Elecman]

ATFs are as their name suggests Feeders between substations not the actual contact catenary which is regularly sectioned for ease of maintenance

 

[GraphitProjekt]

PWI have uploaded a presentation (link to video and slides) about the planned CLC Upgrade. Network Rail commissioned consultants to produce a fairly detailed plan on delivering:
a) 6 car platforms as much as possible
b) re-signalling to 3 aspect TCB throughout
and of course c) full 25kV throughout - 85 STK
The whole thing was pegged at £443m due to lots of innovative clearance designs requiring only 3 total bridge reconstructions in the end. I know in reality a real project would be quite a lot more than that - but it's a pretty low start otherwise.

Unfortunately, the plan has been put on ice likely to be paired back to a shell of its former self - probably because of all the moving parts in that area (Oxford Rd remodelling, Trafford Park relocation, lots of bluster about "NPR") and probably general government aversion to rail investment.

Anyway, the interesting stuff was in this slide.

So the new wires will be powered from an FS at Warrington Central. Itself fed from a 16km dual circuit 25-0-25 independent feeder. It looks like only one of those circuits will be feeding CLC (the one that is at the moment powering Weaver-Crewe/Weaver-Lime St which I'm told is F9) but the other supply (from Weaver F8) is available as backup. So one feed for Trafford to Allerton where there'd be a proper AC/DC interface using isolation transformers I believe.

My question is, regarding the other feeders, does this feeding map represent the current layout?
It shows Willow Park supplying Ordsall Lane to Edge Hill and the St Helens line, but what is the red area that feeds the WCML from ~Earlstown to Euxton plus Bolton Line and Wigan-Lostock? Is it projecting a scenario where the other feed of Heyrod is busy feeding Stalybridge to Huddersfield and where there's another ATFS in Preston (Penwortham was it?)? The implications of the "red" area are a bit strange to me as it looks like it's coming in from north of Euxton.
And what about the other supply at Willow Park?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Penwortham in Preston was indeed the location presented about (3 ish?) years ago. If you know Penwortham, it is perfect.

 

[59CosG95]

If that's fed from Weaver Jn, it'll be coming off the same TNO supply point (Frodsham). I'd expect an "extension lead" to be run along track on the WCML, through WBQ and then up to the CLC tracks, if I were a betting man.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

If that's fed from Weaver Jn, it'll be coming off the same TNO supply point (Frodsham). I'd expect an "extension lead" to be run along track on the WCML, through WBQ and then up to the CLC tracks, if I were a betting man.

Yeah they were mentioning it as WWIF (weaver-warrington independent feeder) and that the design was quite complex negotiating a lot of waterways (ship canal?)

Penwortham in Preston was indeed the location presented about (3 ish?) years ago. If you know Penwortham, it is perfect.

It looks like a very well connected grid substation in terms of 400kV and 275kV.

According to the DfT announcements in summer (that ended MML) PSU work on WCML North (and South in fact ) are back on the cards so maybe it'll come about.

While we're in this area - what is the grid connection for Willow Park? It feeds AT lines but there's not any supergrid even remotely nearby?

 

[WAO]

While we're in this area - what is the grid connection for Willow Park? It feeds AT lines but there's not any supergrid even remotely nearby?

It's the same 132kV supply as the de-commissioned Parkside FS, nearby.

I also think that the diagram represents the team's aspirations as the areas fed differ from other published diagrams, e.g. Crewe is shown prematurely as ATFS not FS. The "Pause" date in March predated the MML pause in July.

WAO

 

[GraphitProjekt]

It's the same 132kV supply as the de-commissioned Parkside FS, nearby.

I didn't think such a thing was possible since Chat Moss is 2x25kV, what kind of compensations or special arrangements are there to make that work? Everything I've read seems to say AT feeding has to be from supergrid sources as 50kV of imbalance is too much for a 132kV line.

I also think that the diagram represents the team's aspirations as the areas fed differ from other published diagrams, e.g. Crewe is shown prematurely as ATFS not FS.

Yeah that makes sense. I have it as:
Weaver Junction 9 feeds Crewe-Weaver/Weaver-Lime Street classically, and feed 8 goes north to Euxton as AT
Willow Park A feeds to Ordsall; feed B from thence to Edge Hill and the St Helens
Heyrod A feeds Ordsall to Euxton/Lostock to Wigan; feed B is Heyrod to the whole central manchester area
Is that correct for the current situation

The "Pause" date in March predated the MML pause in July.

WAO

I wasn't trying to connect any events like that; just than to say PSU upgrades to the WCML route might be in the works again

 

[ABB125]

Everything I've read seems to say AT feeding has to be from supergrid sources as 50kV of imbalance is too much for a 132kV line.

Is it not more to do with the overall power draw rather than the fact it's 50kV? After all, you could take 25kV from the 132kV grid, then transform it up to 50kV (which would be silly, but the electrons wouldn't know!)

 

[GraphitProjekt]

that's sounds reasonable; just having a brief look at RTT the electric services on Chat Moss seem to be mostly 2tph and 3 occasionally 4 tph on the St Helens line.
Still, this makes it probably a one-of-a-kind grid connection. I'd be interested to know what the MVA (and/or FSC) of Willow Park is, transformers at most AT GSPs seem to be 80-104MVA but I imagine this would be quite a bit less than that.

 

[stuving]

that's sounds reasonable; just having a brief look at RTT the electric services on Chat Moss seem to be mostly 2tph and 3 occasionally 4 tph on the St Helens line.
Still, this makes it probably a one-of-a-kind grid connection. I'd be interested to know what the MVA (and/or FSC) of Willow Park is, transformers at most AT GSPs seem to be 80-104MVA but I imagine this would be quite a bit less than that.

Have you seen this? While the choice of words is a bit ambiguous, it looks to me like Willow Park is essentially an ATS, with a bit of power fed in through it "because it was there"

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Have you seen this?

Thanks for that - I'll probably use that source to bulk out a wiki article at some point.

While the choice of words is a bit ambiguous, it looks to me like Willow Park is essentially an ATS, with a bit of power fed in through it "because it was there"

But I don't entirely follow what you're implying. Either the 132kV connections feed Ordsall to Edge Hill and the St Helens Line, or they dont. Unless you're saying it's actually in-phase with Heyrod via Ordsall meaning they both feed the line and Willow Park merely "tops it up"? But I didn't get that impression from the article.