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WCML southern end future. What you would like to see

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The Planner

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Ahh that’s probably a retrograde step then. Does Northampton need 4tph to Birmingham? If not, curtail 2tph of the Via Northampton services at Rugby and put the Rugby stop back in the Euston - New Street fasts. The other Northampton service could even be split there if Long Buckby still gets a direct train to London with the Rugby terminator. This then gives you:

2tph New Street - Euston (fast)
2tph New Street - Euston (semi fast via Northampton) OR 2tph New Street - Northampton
2tph New Street - Reading/Bournemouth
2tph New Street - International (all stations)
1tph Wales - International

The other question is, how many of the above should run beyond New Street in the Wolverhampton direction?
That is the same as today but putting the second XC in for the Avanti lost to HS2 (and also assumes the Cov Leamington upgrade). You keep the semi fasts to Euston IMO. One XC and TfW will carry on to Wolves as now, both Euston fasts should. Cross New St stoppers are a bit risky, the current Rugeley International mitigates it by diving off/on at Soho.
 
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The Planner

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Could you extend International to Leamington via Cov? Assuming the Leamington to Cov line is upgraded?
Would need wires and the partial redoubling. The former being a lot further off than the latter. You then likely have to choose against the cross Coventry service or this one. It would be interesting to see how much traffic from Tile Hill would be abstracted if Kenilworth had a direct service.
 

Energy

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Would need wires and the partial redoubling.
Any news on the Milverton to Ken Jcn redoubling?
The former being a lot further off than the latter.
Agreed, I cant think of any major obstructions on the line.

I suspect issues will be more local politics. Warwickshire County Council are more interested in the cross Warwickshire NUCKLE/Nuneaton services a new University station (not at all confusing with the one in Birmingham) and renaming Coventry to Leamington as the Elephant & Bear line. And they've recently opted not to join the West Midlands Combined Authority.

You could probably get some enhancements paid for by the new housing estates popping up around Kenilworth and Leamington.
It would be interesting to see how much traffic from Tile Hill would be abstracted if Kenilworth had a direct service.
It would be interesting how much if Tile Hill's traffic is Kenilworth and surrounding areas using it as a parkway station, it has a considerable car park and is easy to drive into than Coventry.
 

The Planner

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Any news on the Milverton to Ken Jcn redoubling?
As it stands with the railway at the moment, I doubt its high up any list.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The TFW services could probably terminate at New Street or even Wolverhampton P6, I know from experience that they can be quite empty from Birmingham International to New street and is probably due to the LNR service 4 minutes Infront.
Why would you curtail the TfW at Wolves? that makes no sense, it has to get to Birmingham. You cannot get into P6 anyway from the Shrewsbury direction. You also have to find a platform for 50 minutes to keep it at New St, hence why it goes to International and supplies a useful link to the airport by default.
 

Energy

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You then likely have to choose against the cross Coventry service or this one
Cross Coventry/Warwickshire (I'm guessing you mean Leamington - Nuneaton?) or CrossCountry? The former will be unpopular with the county council. The latter would be unpopular for Coventry (though with frequent trains to change at Leamington or Birmingham not the end of the world) but probably fine elsewhere.
As it stands with the railway at the moment, I doubt its high up any list.
Unsuprising, I'm guessing XC is still 1tph.
 

The Planner

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Cross Coventry/Warwickshire (I'm guessing you mean Leamington - Nuneaton?) or CrossCountry? The former will be unpopular with the county council. The latter would be unpopular for Coventry (though with frequent trains to change at Leamington or Birmingham not the end of the world) but probably fine elsewhere.

Unsuprising, I'm guessing XC is still 1tph.
The Nuneaton Leamington. Leamington would struggle to terminate two from the north.
 

Manutd1999

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I would keep it relatively simple, with everything on the fast lines paired on a half-hourly pattern:

4ph calling at Milton Keynes only
2ph continue to Wolverton, Northampton then all-stop to Birmingham
2ph continue along the Trent Valley (1ph fast to Chester/North Wales and 1ph stopper to Crewe)

4ph calling Watford, Milton Keynes, Rugby
2ph continue fast to Coventry/Birmingham/Wolverhampton then on to Shrewsbury/Scotland
2ph continue semi-fast along the Trent Valley (1ph to Manchester, 1ph to Liverpool)

2ph calling Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes
Both continue to Wolverton, Northampton and then maybe extend to Coventry or Nuneaton
 

The Planner

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I would keep it relatively simple, with everything on the fast lines paired on a half-hourly pattern:

4ph calling at Milton Keynes only
2ph continue to Wolverton, Northampton then all-stop to Birmingham
2ph continue along the Trent Valley (1ph fast to Chester/North Wales and 1ph stopper to Crewe)

4ph calling Watford, Milton Keynes, Rugby
2ph continue fast to Coventry/Birmingham/Wolverhampton then on to Shrewsbury/Scotland
2ph continue semi-fast along the Trent Valley (1ph to Manchester, 1ph to Liverpool)

2ph calling Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes
Both continue to Wolverton, Northampton and then maybe extend to Coventry or Nuneaton
That wouldnt work on the fast lines with all those extra stops put in. Wolverton is a slow line stop. Coventry would be an awful place to terminate.
 

Energy

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The Nuneaton Leamington. Leamington would struggle to terminate two from the north.
Getting a bit crayons with this suggestion but could you axe Leamington - Stratford/Birmingham Chiltern services and use its space for a 1tph Stratford-Leamington-Nuneaton service with a reverse at Leamington?

Lapworth would lose its connection to Leamington now WMR doesn't seem to run any Snow Hill services to Leamington.
2ph calling Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes
Both continue to Wolverton, Northampton and then maybe extend to Coventry or Nuneaton
Coventry only has 4 through platforms, not a nice place to terminate. The planned platform 5 bay (if ever built) would be accessible from the north only and would be used for an additional Coventry - Nuneaton or Coventry - Leicester service.
 

Snow1964

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There is an official aspiration to the service towards the end of this document which was recently updated to post pandemic plans


eg on pages 65 and 73 has service from Crewe (which appears to be semi-fast) via Nuneaton, Coventry, Rugby to/from Euston.

Coventry only has 4 through platforms, not a nice place to terminate. The planned platform 5 bay (if ever built) would be accessible from the north only and would be used for an additional Coventry - Nuneaton or Coventry - Leicester service.
The diagram on page 65 suggests only the stoppers from Birmingham will terminate at Coventry, with those from Nuneaton continuing to Leamington
 

Energy

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There is an official aspiration to the service towards the end of this document which was recently updated to post pandemic plans


eg on pages 65 and 73 has service from Crewe (which appears to be semi-fast) via Nuneaton, Coventry, Rugby to/from Euston.


The diagram on page 65 suggests only the stoppers from Birmingham will terminate at Coventry, with those from Nuneaton continuing to Leamington
1694271610288.png
The plan is mad.

Only 1 additional platform is planned (platform 5 bay but that's marked as under review) but Coventry now has to terminate 2tph from Nottingham and 2tph from Rugeley.

Who does the Euston-Crewe via Coventry and Nuneaton service serve? All the stations already have services to Euston, Rugby already connects to Coventry and Nuneaton/Trent Valley/Crewe so it is for people connecting from Coventry to Crewe/Polesworth/Atherstone/Tamworth but passengers for Crewe would be better changing at Birmingham Intl for HS2. For the other stations, they'd be better off upping the London - Crewe current service to 2tph and have passengers change at Nuneaton with the frequent Nuneaton to Coventry services.
 
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PTR 444

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The plan is mad.

Only 1 additional platform is planned (platform 5 bay but that's marked as under review) but Coventry now has to terminate 2tph from Nottingham and 2tph from Rugeley.

Who does the Euston-Crewe via Coventry and Nuneaton service serve? All the stations already have services to Euston, Rugby already connects to Coventry and Nuneaton/Trent Valley/Crewe so it is for people connecting from Coventry to Crewe/Polesworth-Atherstone-Tamworth but passengers for Crewe would be better changing at Birmingham Intl for HS2 and for Trent Valley passengers could easily change at Nuneaton with the frequent Nuneaton to Coventry services.
Better to get rid of the Birmingham - Coventry terminator and put the stops in the Northampton service. Then get rid of that Euston - Crewe via Bedworth as it serves no practical purpose not already covered by existing services.
 

RT4038

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Any news on the Milverton to Ken Jcn redoubling?

Agreed, I cant think of any major obstructions on the line.
Apart from the single track bridge across the A46, which will need rebuilding or a separate extra bridge to be built.

You could probably get some enhancements paid for by the new housing estates popping up around Kenilworth and Leamington.
i would think it highly unlikely, as any enhancements are likely to be so expensive that any proportionate/ reasonable s106 contribution would be nowhere near enough. The railway line does not pass any of the new housing currently being built or planned in or near Leamington, and the Kenilworth sites are simply not big enough. You need to read up the rules on this type of contribution.
 

Energy

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Apart from the single track bridge across the A46, which will need rebuilding or a separate extra bridge to be built.
Apologies, I meant major obstructions to electrification. A few bridges were modified decades ago.

Further doubling might have issues with a couple of the bridges between Common Lane and Gibbet Hill.
i would think it highly unlikely, as any enhancements are likely to be so expensive that any proportionate/ reasonable s106 contribution would be nowhere near enough. The railway line does not pass any of the new housing currently being built or planned in or near Leamington, and the Kenilworth sites are simply not big enough. You need to read up the rules on this type of contribution.
Fair enough, the new £46m secondary school got entirely funded by Kenilworth's new build sites though it needed doing far more than any rail enhancements.
 
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RT4038

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Apologies, I meant major obstructions to electrification. A few bridges were modified decades ago.

Redoubling might have issues with a couple of the bridges between Common Lane and Gibbet Hill.

Fair enough, the new £46m secondary school got entirely funded by Kenilworth's new build sites though it needed doing far more than any rail enhancements.
Common Lane to Gibbet Hill is not between Milverton and Kenilworth. To be pedantic, redoubling is not possible on this section, because it has never been double before.

Any new build site is going to have to contribute to new schools and other local infrastructure. Unless it is an enormous scheme (new town and the like) the contribution that you could get for transport would not buy anything worthwhile on the railway and would be at the expense of local bus service enhancement/provision. Developers can, and do, play the affordability card (the contribution demands are going to push up the sale price of the housing beyond their ability to sell them) and just about anything railway is going to trigger that!
 
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Energy

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Common Lane to Gibbet Hill is not between Milverton and Kenilworth. To be pedantic, redoubling is not possible on this section, because it has never been double before.
Of course, meant further doubling :). The WMRE document mentioned earlier mentioned Kenilworth to Coventry redoubling in the 2030s, though I'd take this document with a large grain of salt.
Developers can, and do, play the affordability card (the contribution demands are going to push up the sale price of the housing beyond their ability to sell them) and just about anything railway is going to trigger that!
Indeed, the new build houses around Kenilworth are particularly pricy, Kenilworth does have higher house prices but entirely funding the new school will have pushed them up. Better cycling infrastructure would be far more important than railway enhancements anyway.
 

jfollows

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Yes, I think Wilmslow is a bit of a railhead for surrounding areas - Hale, Altrincham, and environs plus M56. Stockport may be better for Sale. There's a car park in the vicinity of the station for £5.60 a day which I believe fills up quite well (272 spaces) but has spaces for early commuters.
Interestingly, though: the council operates the 272-space car park close to the station which can be used for up to 5 days, tariff currently £5.60 for one day and £28 for 5 days. It used to be full during the day, with parking tickets issued to people who couldn't park in designated spaces.
This car park now has an average peak occupancy of 54 vehicles, or just under 20%, and the council is proposing reducing the cost to £3.40 for 1 day and £17 for 5 days.
The car park is slightly remote and hidden from the shops, so I think it's mainly used by commuters and workers, although many of the latter probably park for free in the town instead - given the sporadic nature of enforcement it's actually cheaper to pick up an occasional ticket anyway.
The figures do seem to indicate a significant downturn post COVID, and puts into question assumptions made on pre-COVID revenue figures in this report.
 

JKF

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Reopen Northampton - Market Harborough and send a few Leicester/Nottingham trains into Euston. Some of the intermediate connections might be desirable. This in turn would release some space on the MML.
 

JonathanH

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Reopen Northampton - Market Harborough and send a few Leicester/Nottingham trains into Euston. Some of the intermediate connections might be desirable. This in turn would release some space on the MML.
Doesn't that lead to slower journeys for passengers on the trains that go via Northampton to the result that it doesn't move any traffic off the MML?
 
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