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WCML signalling

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MarkWi72

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I wonder if someone can explain to me some of the advancements on WCML signalling. Is it still 4 aspect in the original sense? Are there any changes since the 80s?

And the flashing yellows- does this highlight a junction access?
Cheers
 
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godfreycomplex

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I wonder if someone can explain to me some of the advancements on WCML signalling. Is it still 4 aspect in the original sense? Are there any changes since the 80s?

And the flashing yellows- does this highlight a junction access?
Cheers
Signalling on the WCML is of various vintages, the newest is around Stafford. However, all colour light and mostly 4 aspect (with some pockets of 3).

Flashing yellows highlight a diverging route, be it to a junction or moving between adjacent lines. The driver’s route knowledge will include what flashing yellows at each location read towards and what line speeds are applicable.

I’m not entirely sure where the first flashing aspects were but they became widespread in the 1980s. The WCML upgrade project of the early 2000s bought a good number to the WCML.
 

The Planner

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I wonder if someone can explain to me some of the advancements on WCML signalling. Is it still 4 aspect in the original sense? Are there any changes since the 80s?

And the flashing yellows- does this highlight a junction access?
Cheers
Vast improvements as part of the West Coast route mod programme. Originally the headway on the fasts was 5 minutes, now down to 3.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Hasn't relay-based signalling been largely eliminated on the WCML, at least south of Crewe?
Rugby-Lichfield is also bi-directional (linked to the TV4 upgrade).
At least 10 lineside signal boxes have been eliminated, with level crossings eliminated.
Crewe resignalling (dating from the 1985 remodelling) has started.
Line speed increase to 125mph with suitable adjustments to the signalling.
TASS installed, providing a form of cab signalling and ATC over 110mph.
Improvements also on WCML branches/loops.
 

Lewisham2221

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Hasn't relay-based signalling been largely eliminated on the WCML, at least south of Crewe?
Rugby-Lichfield is also bi-directional (linked to the TV4 upgrade).
At least 10 lineside signal boxes have been eliminated, with level crossings eliminated.
Crewe resignalling (dating from the 1985 remodelling) has started.
Line speed increase to 125mph with suitable adjustments to the signalling.
TASS installed, providing a form of cab signalling and ATC over 110mph.
Improvements also on WCML branches/loops.
Just to clarify, there are still a number of level crossings between Colwich and Stoke, albeit not the WCML "proper"
 

The Planner

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Crewe resignalling (dating from the 1985 remodelling) has started.
<cough> only the Independents </cough>

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Just to clarify, there are still a number of level crossings between Colwich and Stoke, albeit not the WCML "proper"
Only the two in Stone Barlaston and Wedgwood I think?
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Just to clarify, there are still a number of level crossings between Colwich and Stoke, albeit not the WCML "proper"

Only the two in Stone Barlaston and Wedgwood I think?

Aren't there also level crossings still at Meaford (Station Road), Church Lane (Redhill Road), Aston-by-Stone (Uttoxeter Road) and maybe one or two other level crossings or user worked gates as well?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Isn't Hest Bank now the first level crossing on the main line from Euston?
Generally from Weaver Jn northwards the signalling/layout dates from 1974 and is due for replacement (Carstairs-Glasgow already done).
This looks like being (with Crewe) the first deployment of ETCS on the WCML.
I note that ORR has moved some CP7 funding away from LNW(N) on the grounds the work can't be delivered in the time period (2024-29).
 
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The Planner

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Isn't Hest Bank now the first level crossing on the main line from Euston?
Generally from Weaver Jn northwards the signalling/layout dates from 1974 and is due for replacement (Carstairs-Glasgow already done).
This looks like being (with Crewe) the first deployment of ETCS on the WCML.
I note that ORR has moved some CP7 funding away from LNW(N) on the grounds the work can't be delivered in the time period (2024-29).
Crewe won't be ETCS as it stands, only Warrington, Preston and Carlisle.
 

jfollows

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I wonder if someone can explain to me some of the advancements on WCML signalling. Is it still 4 aspect in the original sense? Are there any changes since the 80s?
The 1980s were little changed from the 1960s, when the WCML was resignalled south-to-north until the budget was cut, at which point many LNWR and early BR signal boxes remained.
So from Euston it was:
  • Euston
  • Willesden Junction
  • Watford Junction
  • Bletchley
  • Banbury Lane crossing
  • Rugby
  • Nuneaton
with the "new" stuff, but with 4 signal boxes in the Northampton area.
Then you had (to Manchester via Crewe) existing signal boxes repurposed with 4-aspect colour light signals but sometimes retaining mechanical points and ground signals:
  • Atherstone
  • Polesworth
  • Tamworth
  • Coton Crossing
  • Hademore Crossing
  • Lichfield
  • Colwich Junction
  • Stafford No. 4
  • Stafford No. 5
  • Norton Bridge (new signal box in the 1960s)
  • Madeley
  • Betley Road
  • Basford Hall Junction
  • Crewe South Junction
  • Crewe Station A (some platforms only)
  • Crewe North Junction
  • Sandbach (new)
  • Wilmslow (new)
  • Cheadle Hulme
  • Adswood Road Junction
  • Edgeley Junction No. 1
  • Edgeley Junction No. 2
  • Stockport No. 1
  • Stockport No. 2
  • Heaton Norris Junction
  • Manchester London Road (new)
via Stoke you had after Colwich Junction
  • Meaford Crossing
  • Stoke-on-Trent (new)
  • Grange Junction
  • Bradwell Sidings
  • Kidsgrove
  • Mow Cop
  • Macclesfield
I may have missed one or two, but it's from when I used to use the line a lot, and it included a number of very small boxes such as Bradwell Sidings and Adswood Road.
Some gradual improvements abolished a number of these boxes - Atherstone, Adswood Road went quite early and Crewe was remodelled, for example.
It was all 4-aspect, including the Styal Line which has since - unfortunately - been resignalled as 3-aspect.
Now I lose track of which "regional operating centre" or whatnot controls which area, but the five Stockport boxes remain, following an aborted attempt to replace them a number of years ago. Manchester South replaces most others in my area, including Macclesfield most recently. Crewe remains as resignalled in the mid-1980s. But the WCML modernisation prior to the introduction of Pendolinos essentially swept away a lot of the old stuff, which had been only changed gradually and piecemeal prior to then.
The two Stafford signal boxes survived this, which is why the earlier post refers to their replacement as pretty much the most recent change.
Basford Hall Junction is the first “traditional” signal box you’ll see today on the route from London.
 
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Railsigns

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The 1980s were little changed from the 1960s, when the WCML was resignalled south-to-north until the budget was cut, at which point many LNWR and early BR signal boxes remained.
The WCML comprises a lot more than just London - Manchester. Most of the parts you've ignored were resignalled in the 1970s.
 

Huntergreed

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Signalling on the WCML is of various vintages, the newest is around Stafford. However, all colour light and mostly 4 aspect (with some pockets of 3).
Just out of personal curiosity - where is 3 aspect used? I was under the impression the entire line (certainly the core route) was 4 aspect!
 

Mcr Warrior

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The 'double reds' approaching junctions are very annoying though.....
Is that the situation where trains are held at a (red) signal before the signal which is nearest to the relevant junction? (In order to try to reduce the possible consequence of an over-run?)
 

zwk500

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Is that the situation where trains are held at a (red) signal before the signal which is nearest to the junction? (To try to prevent possible over-runs?)
Yes, it's an additional protection. It means a move will need the signals clearing slightly earlier ahead of it to avoid cautionary aspects, marginally extending the junction margins.
 

godfreycomplex

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I know!
Otherwise occasional goods loops, back platform signals and slow lines north of Weaver Junction, but no continuous stretch that I am aware of.
Slow lines north of Weaver was what I was thinking of aye (along with all the signals north of the Clyde at Glasgow Central).
But no, no continuous stretch other than these I’m aware of either
 

Taunton

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Styal is stretching the term WCML a bit!
The Styal line was certainly part of the original WCML electrification, and for quite some years from the 1966 start a few Euston expresses used it, stopping at Wilmslow but not Stockport. Even the Manchester Pullman went this way for some time.
 

jfollows

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The Styal line was certainly part of the original WCML electrification, and for quite some years from the 1966 start a few Euston expresses used it, stopping at Wilmslow but not Stockport. Even the Manchester Pullman went this way for some time.
And had 4-aspect signalling at the time. Unfortunately it was resignalled with 3-aspect signalling shortly before the airport line opened and it became much busier.
 

Nippy

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Which ones? Down into Rugby P1 is getting sorted with a flashing yellow soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Watford mainly, the ridiculously slow approach if you miss the flashers on the DF. Very frustrating to watch on the panel. At least with the removal of the closing up signal on the UF we’ve lost the ’triple red’ protection.
 

Boodiggy

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Which ones? Down into Rugby P1 is getting sorted with a flashing yellow soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Styal is stretching the term WCML a bit!
in to P1 drops from 60 to 50 for this.
To do with P2 and existing flashers being 40mph so to mitigate against misread signals / routes.
 
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