WCML refranchise

[YorkshireBear]

http://rail-news.com/2010/08/11/virgins-reaction-to-east-coast-main-line-pendolino-proposal/

says here about if virgin get next franchise their willing to pay for the remainder of fleet to be extended to 11 car out of there own profit. I think that is fantastic and the kind of approach i hope would come with longer franchises.

He also states that the new 11 car units will run the birmingham glasgow services to release a super voyager for a new manchester heathrow service. Never head of that service been suggested before, is there a case for it?

thoughts?

 

[ukrob]

http://rail-news.com/2010/08/11/virgins-reaction-to-east-coast-main-line-pendolino-proposal/

says here about if virgin get next franchise their willing to pay for the remainder of fleet to be extended to 11 car out of there own profit. I think that is fantastic and the kind of approach i hope would come with longer franchises.

He also states that the new 11 car units will run the birmingham glasgow services to release a super voyager for a new manchester heathrow service. Never head of that service been suggested before, is there a case for it?

thoughts?

No, because Heathrow is in tunnels and 220/221s are diesel. Smells like bull to me.

Edit: It would also depend if Virgin would also fund a panto coach for the 221s - and if they were allowed to run the service to start with.

One of the new sets is a replacement for the one written off remember - which will enable Liverpool to have two services per hour (which was always the plan with the VHF timetable - the path is there for it).

 

[YorkshireBear]

Didn't know that about liverpool, so why did they not run the 2tph because of the derailment?
I guess that will be end of pretendilino also

good point about heathrow, does make it sound a bit ridiculous.

 

[ukrob]

Didn't know that about liverpool, so why did they not run the 2tph because of the derailment?
I guess that will be end of pretendilino also

good point about heathrow, does make it sound a bit ridiculous.

Because there were not enough units. The current Liverpool service has around a 75 minute turnaround at Euston because it is still only 1TPH, but not quite enough sets for 2TPH.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Because there were not enough units. The current Liverpool service has around a 75 minute turnaround at Euston because it is still only 1TPH, but not quite enough sets for 2TPH.

Does it need an extra service per hour though i haven't really got that much knowledge of west coast

 

[ukrob]

Does it need an extra service per hour though i haven't really got that much knowledge of west coast

It needs two more than Manchester needs three!

 

[Fincra5]

The only other operator i would like to see on the WCML express services would be Govia, still rather they are operated by Virgin though

 

[Dreadnought]

No, because Heathrow is in tunnels and 220/221s are diesel. Smells like bull to me.

Edit: It would also depend if Virgin would also fund a panto coach for the 221s - and if they were allowed to run the service to start with.

One of the new sets is a replacement for the one written off remember - which will enable Liverpool to have two services per hour (which was always the plan with the VHF timetable - the path is there for it).

I believe the plan is to actually run the voyager to Hayes and Harlington where it can link into the Heathrow Connect services.

 

[Pumbaa]

Just forget about Virgin getting WCML again - they're not going to. DafT unwilling to talk to them about their plans is just the start!

 

[lm321412]

The only other operator i would like to see on the WCML express services would be Govia, still rather they are operated by Virgin though

Oh god no, Imagine Pendolinos and Super Voyagers in that green livery!!!

 

[Fincra5]

Oh god no, Imagine Pendolinos and Super Voyagers in that green livery!!!

Well there are mnay colours Southeastern hasn't got any green on it

 

[duffman82]

Who do you think would get West Coast if Virgin doesn't get it though ?

 

[Fincra5]

Who do you think would get West Coast if Virgin doesn't get it though ?

Hmm, either Govia or Stagecoach, i doubt First or any other group would get it.

 

[duffman82]

Hmm, either Govia or Stagecoach, i doubt First or any other group would get it.

It will be interesting seeing 390's and voyagers in stagecoach colours !

 

[Fincra5]

Well a couple from RailWorks A stagecoach Pendolino and a first group Pendolino.

 

[At_traction]

Well a couple from RailWorks A stagecoach Pendolino and a first group Pendolino.

Prefer the latter. So, that's it then.

But a pendo without the diagonally striped doors? B*gger.

 

[MCR247]

It is on railway eye that virgin want to
- extend the brum - Scotland to London with pendolinos
- run a Manchester - Hayes service.

This was from a press release because east coast are saying they might run one of the 11 cars for nine months Which virgin and the dft didn't know about

 

[TDK]

Who do you think would get West Coast if Virgin doesn't get it though ?

I think DB have a good chance, VT know they have a good chance of loosing the franchise and that is why they are making this announcement.

 

[jopsuk]

There's talk of Virgin getting the East Coast- but I really can't seriously see them having both. I know Stagecoach have the MML- but that doesn't compete with the WCML, whilst the ECML and WCML do to an extent. In fact, the ECML and MML compete to some destinations, making it even less likely that either the current Virgin (with minority Stagecoach) or Souter's mob on their own would be allowed to win the ECML.

 

[WatcherZero]

Virgin would be insane to trade the ECML for the WCML anyway, ones profitable and growing 15% in the last 12 months, the others a poison chalice with declining passenger numbers.

 

[Geezertronic]

If the rumourmill is correct, Virgin won't get renewed on the WCML so their only option might be the ECML

 

[YorkshireBear]

why are they unwilling to give west coast to virgin?

 

[WatcherZero]

/sigh let me guess, they want to 'shake up' something thats working well and not let them become 'part of the furniture'. Change for changes sake, 2 years from the decision have the government already made up their mind?

 

[Aictos]

The FGW livery looks quite smart on the 390 much like the GNER livery was during their own tenure of the ECML.

 

[The Planner]

/sigh let me guess, they want to 'shake up' something thats working well and not let them become 'part of the furniture'. Change for changes sake, 2 years from the decision have the government already made up their mind?

Seems to be a general concensus that Virgin have got up the Dft's nose once too often over the years.

 

[me123]

I'm glad to see some more forward thinking from Virgin. Virgin Trains, as much we all moan about the "plastic-y new trains that smell of poo", really are one of the biggest success stories of privatisation I would say. The implementation of the High Frequency timetable has (on the whole) boosted services up and down the WCML, the Pendolinos have revolutionised travel, the company has a consistently high satisfaction rating (and is the highest scoring long distance franchised TOC in this area), passengers seem to love the modern trains and have a high opinion of the company...

And I think their new plans are inspired. A sensible plan to move the Voyagers onto diesel only routes. A new link to London Heathrow (well, H&H is close enough I suppose!) relieving congestion and making travel to the airport much easier. Going into their own profits to lengthen trains... Surely this kind of forward thinking is what should have been allowed to come out of privatisation.

I certainly hope that the DfT see the potential in these proposals (indeed, a Tory government would probably want to see the private investment in a national railway network at a time of budget cuts). Sadly, if what I'm reading above is true, I wouldn't be surprised. I can only hope that someone will see the sense in giving Virgin another shot on the WCML franchise.

 

[duffman82]

Well a couple from RailWorks A stagecoach Pendolino and a first group Pendolino.

Scary but i actually like the pendolino in Stagecoach Livery! I suppose the Voyagers would just look like meridians which suit there livery.

But I Think Virgin are doing a fine job with West Coast, Why ruin it by taking it off them after all there hard work!

Also it would be an interesting service Manchester - Heathrow, hope they do it !

 

[87015]

But I Think Virgin are doing a fine job with West Coast, Why ruin it by taking it off them after all there hard work!

Because theyextracted the urine for so long and some people don't have the memory of goldfishes.

 

[TDK]

Seems to be a general concensus that Virgin have got up the Dft's nose once too often over the years.

They most certainly have especially with the money they got from the late completion of the WCML upgrade, they could have ceased operations for 6 months and still made a profit. There is also the back door deal that was signed up with the Franchise agreements. They gave up Cross Country thinking they would get the ECML and it backfired leaving them with egg on their faces. There are quite a few other incidents that upset the Dft also.

 

[WatcherZero]

Good thing Pickles aint at the Dft then, upset him twice in two months and he will axe a department thats existed for over a century (Audit Commision).