WCML question on line speed ?

[CheshirePaul]

I have just booked a ticket from Crewe to Glasgow and noticed that the journey time is just over 3hrs 15 mins, but the journey time from Crewe to London is under 2 hours.

I know the Crewe to Glasgow is a little bit further and has a couple more stops than to London but not that much that it takes nearly an hour and a half longer.

Is the WCML line speed north of Crewe really that much slower than south of Crewe ?

 

[ainsworth74]

I think it has more to do with all the stops north of Crewe rather than linespeed as there is plenty of 125mph running throughout the WCML to Glasgow. Euston to Crewe seems to be either non-stop or has one intermediate stop. Crewe to Glasgow has six or seven intermediate stops. That quickly adds up to a fair bit of extra time. Further Crewe to Glasgow is just shy of 250 miles whilst Euston to Crewe is around 150 miles, that's an extra hundred miles (roughly). Taken together I'd say you've got your explanation as to why it takes three hours.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's plenty of 125 EPS mileage north of Crewe, but there are also long stretches of slower running, some without any tilt.
Acton Grange-Wigan (15 miles) is 100-90-80-90-110 without tilt.
Carstairs to Glasgow has virtually no tilt and is quite slow through junctions in places (Law Jn, Newton, Rutherglen etc).
Trains also have to fit in with the local Glasgow passenger service.
Many a time a clear, fast run is torpedoed outside Motherwell, with a crawl onwards to Glasgow (and often a stop outside Polmadie depot).
Approaches to Preston and Carlisle are very slow.
The run over the fells (Oxenholme-Penrith) is also mostly at about 100mph, and for reasons I have never understood the EPS increment is sometimes negligible.
Shap and Beattock summits are still limited to 80mph non-EPS.
There's a crew change at Preston, and sometimes a fair wait.
Nevertheless it's a great run on a fine day.
Best long fast run on the railway.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The two posters above me have got it pretty much dead on, don't forget however that there are some very impressive runs on that route too, especially north of Carlisle, for example you can do the 72 miles from Carlisle to Carstairs in a tad over 40 mins, that's some shifting.

Most of that good work however is undone beyond Motherwell, I've been to Glasgow on VT more times than I can remember in recent years and in that time maybe 10% of trains have had a clear run into Central, often you'll get to the Newton area at a reasonable speed but I've known it take up to 10-15 mins to do the final stretch of 7 miles or so into Glasgow, especially slow around the Eglington St Tunnels. As LNW-GW Joint says, it because you basically end up in a sea of local trains that all need to reach Glasgow Central, a fair amount to the High Level too. IIRC the westbound Edinburgh-Shotts-Glasgow semi-fast takes 15 mins to do the final 8 miles, with a booked wait near the Clyde Bridge!

Edit - On a more cheery note I should add that Carlisle-Carstairs (either direction) on a 390 at full blast is one of my favourite journeys in Britain, aided by 99%+ of that route offering clear views of the surrounding beauty of the Border country. No tunnels and very, very few cuttings.
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An interesting comparison is the 1630 Euston-Glasgow Central Mon-Fri: this has only one booked call at Preston (booked for 3 mins), and that train covers the stretch between Crewe and Glasgow in 2 hours, 39.5 mins; including the stop at Preston and the 20mph (?) run through Carlisle station.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On a more cheery note I should add that Carlisle-Carstairs (either direction) on a 390 at full blast is one of my favourite journeys in Britain, aided by 99%+ of that route offering clear views of the surrounding beauty of the Border country. No tunnels and very, very few cuttings.

Absolutely agree. All thanks to Joseph Locke.

 

[cambsy]

Your probably on a Super Voyager, which due to only 6 degrees of tilt compared to 9 degrees of tilt, makes it slower round some of the tighter curves, so journey slightly slower, also from London to Colwich Jct there are 3 permanent speed restrictions below 120 mph, lowest is 100 mph at Atherstone, Colwich is about 125 miles approx from London, which helps give London to Warrington time of 1hr 44 mins but can be done in 1hr 38 mins, once north of Crewe there are indeed a lot of changes in speed, and some small sections with no tilt allowed, though there are some good high speed sections up north, and fast timings, Glasgow to Carlisle 1hr 06 mins, did on special train in 1hr 02 mins, scenery is a lot better further north, especially north of Lancaster.

 

[30907]

Also, Crewe-Glasgow timings are for Voyagers not Pendolinos, which also makes a couple of minutes' difference.

 

[Pumbaa]

Edit - On a more cheery note I should add that Carlisle-Carstairs (either direction) on a 390 at full blast is one of my favourite journeys in Britain, aided by 99%+ of that route offering clear views of the surrounding beauty of the Border country. No tunnels and very, very few cuttings.

Mine also - simply fantastic. I used to do it fairly regularly on early Summers mornings; the view as the sun came up and the mist slowly lifted was a treat. It's a shame I haven't been up that way recently.

 

[chris89]

On a more cheery note I should add that Carlisle-Carstairs (either direction) on a 390 at full blast is one of my favourite journeys in Britain, aided by 99%+ of that route offering clear views of the surrounding beauty of the Border country. No tunnels and very, very few cuttings.

Couldn't agree more as well. Not just on a 390 also on a 221 is fantastic.

Especially lovely at dusk and when it is all snowy. One of the best bits for myself seeing a Eurofighter Typhoon going on a 'attack' run on the train before banking down one of many of the valleys.

Chris

 

[Lampshade]

It's a bit of an invalid comparison; the halfway point is Leyland so it'd be more representative measuring from Preston as opposed to Crewe (40 mins difference).