WCML fast line shutdown after 10pm Euston to Milton Keynes

[Railperf]

Is it my imagination or is only the WCML whose fast lines shut sometime after 10pm on weekdays - meaning all express trains end up routed on the slow lines extending journey times? On all the other main lines - GWML, ECML, GEML, MML, i'm sure both the Slow and fast lines remain open until the close of play - unless planned engineering works. Does anyone know why this appears to be unique to the WCML?

 

[59CosG95]

A possible guess for the Euston - MK stretch is that works are currently underway for the re-commenced WCML Power Supply Upgrade, which was until recently mothballed between North Wembley & Bourne End (Herts). Small part steel has gone up in the Bushey/Carpenders Park area to this effect.

As for the ECML, all lines have to close at the same time as it's paired by direction rather than speed, and you can't jolly well shut only the Down lines on their own!

I'm sure similar track pair switching rules occur on the GW/M/GE main lines too.

 

[The Planner]

Is it my imagination or is only the WCML whose fast lines shut sometime after 10pm on weekdays - meaning all express trains end up routed on the slow lines extending journey times? On all the other main lines - GWML, ECML, GEML, MML, i'm sure both the Slow and fast lines remain open until the close of play - unless planned engineering works. Does anyone know why this appears to be unique to the WCML?

A possible guess for the Euston - MK stretch is that works are currently underway for the re-commenced WCML Power Supply Upgrade, which was until recently mothballed between North Wembley & Bourne End (Herts). Small part steel has gone up in the Bushey/Carpenders Park area to this effect.

As for the ECML, all lines have to close at the same time as it's paired by direction rather than speed, and you can't jolly well shut only the Down lines on their own!

I'm sure similar track pair switching rules occur on the GW/M/GE main lines too.

Standard two track railway, been like that since West Coast Route Mod, if not before. Bushey power supply normally gets done in the disruptive bank holiday blocks.

 

[JonathanH]

Is it my imagination or is only the WCML whose fast lines shut sometime after 10pm on weekdays - meaning all express trains end up routed on the slow lines extending journey times?

MML is two track from 2300 each night.

 

[apinnard]

@Bald Rick has answered this question before, I believe. It becomes a two track railway in the evenings.

 

[swt_passenger]

@Bald Rick has answered this question before, I believe. It becomes a two track railway in the evenings.

It’s certainly been answered just within the last few weeks, IIRC after west coast route modernisation Virgin insisted on weekday evening closures in preference to regular Sunday closures for normal planned maintenance activities.

Ah, here we are, basically the same discussion started only last week:

What to do about the WCML early finish from London to Manchester/Liverpool

It’s really early finish by Avanti to Manchester/ Liverpool at around 2200-2230 while not restoring any post 2300 departures; which compare to ECML do have a late 2345 service to Leeds. I am thinking since Caledonian Lowlander leave Euston at 2345, and call at Crewe and Preston. Would it be...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Hadrian]

As I remember it the evening/night arrangements for the London end of the WCML are provision for all trains to be pathed to operate over one pair of tracks and to be timed to the speed limitations of the slow lines. On any specific occasion engineers' possesion(s) can be taken for part or all of either the fast lines or the slow lines (or alternatively part(s) of the fasts and different part(s) of the slows). These arrangements were initially very similar to the Saturday nights and Sundays (until approx 1600) which had applied for many years. I do not know whether the additional provision for centre tracks possessions, leaving the down fast and the up slow open for traffic, which used to apply at weekends, also now applies to weeknights. I ceased to be involved in specifying the relevant rules of the route too many years ago to be fully aware of the current details - including whether the timing allowances provide for two or more fast to slow (or vice versa) crossing moves.

 

[The Planner]

As I remember it the evening/night arrangements for the London end of the WCML are provision for all trains to be pathed to operate over one pair of tracks and to be timed to the speed limitations of the slow lines. On any specific occasion engineers' possesion(s) can be taken for part or all of either the fast lines or the slow lines (or alternatively part(s) of the fasts and different part(s) of the slows). These arrangements were initially very similar to the Saturday nights and Sundays (until approx 1600) which had applied for many years. I do not know whether the additional provision for centre tracks possessions, leaving the down fast and the up slow open for traffic, which used to apply at weekends, also now applies to weeknights. I ceased to be involved in specifying the relevant rules of the route too many years ago to be fully aware of the current details - including whether the timing allowances provide for two or more fast to slow (or vice versa) crossing moves.

Centre lines generally need all lines now.

 

[Bald Rick]

To add to the above, the WCML has been a two track railway overnight since time immemorial, and not just since Route Mod. Indeed, before about 1982, there was a two track railway somewhere between Willesden and Hanslope every weekday between the peaks.

As others have said the MML is a two track railway overnight too (As I will find again later this evening).

And there is planned engineering work every night somewhere on the closed lines Of the WCML - it takes a lot of maintenance as it gets a hammering.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

To add to the above, the WCML has been a two track railway overnight since time immemorial, and not just since Route Mod. Indeed, before about 1982, there was a two track railway somewhere between Willesden and Hanslope every weekday between the peaks.
As others have said the MML is a two track railway overnight too (As I will find again later this evening).
And there is planned engineering work every night somewhere on the closed lines.

Something else that should be bypassed with HS2 (south of Handsacre, or however far it gets).
HS2 itself will be able to close one track for maintenance while the other track remains open between crossovers.

 

[Man_with_beard]

Are there ever occasions on fast and slow lines where one slow and one fast have been out of action with up or down trains being routed on the outer lines and while the inner two lines are closed?

 

[Hadrian]

To add to the above, the WCML has been a two track railway overnight since time immemorial, and not just since Route Mod. Indeed, before about 1982, there was a two track railway somewhere between Willesden and Hanslope every weekday between the peaks.

As others have said the MML is a two track railway overnight too (As I will find again later this evening).

And there is planned engineering work every night somewhere on the closed lines.

The WCML daytime 'weave' in the 70s and early 80s was a operational nightmare. The times for possession of the two tracks were significantly different for the two directions, which made for plenty of conflict at the junctions at each end of the section. During these times at the beginning or the end of the weave period all down trains could conflict with all up trains twice. Fortunately there were rather fewer trains in those days.

Even when both directions were weaved (in the middle part of the period) the convergence from four tracks to two at the junctions at each end still left plenty of conflicting movements. The additional recovery time during the weave period, while sufficient for slow line running for trains which would normally use the fast lines, did not adequately allow for delays from conflicts at fast/slow junctions. In those days class one (InterCity) trains almost always took precedence, so the class two local service often suffered from poor punctuality.

 

[The Planner]

Are there ever occasions on fast and slow lines where one slow and one fast have been out of action with up or down trains being routed on the outer lines and while the inner two lines are closed?

No, as it brings in adjacent line open issues. Centre lines need an all line block.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

No, as it brings in adjacent line open issues. Centre lines need an all line block.

Brighton Main has centre line blocks through East Croydon.

 

[The Planner]

Brighton Main has centre line blocks through East Croydon.

Different region, NW&C don't do it for whatever reason.

 

[59CosG95]

Different region, NW&C don't do it for whatever reason.

East Coast don't do it either.

I'm surprised NW&C don't do it on the Trent Valley section of the WCML - all that bi-directional signalling seems a tad pointless now!
Then again, I suppose it could easily be worked like the southern section of the WCML (paired by speed).

 

[The Planner]

East Coast don't do it either.

I'm surprised NW&C don't do it on the Trent Valley section of the WCML - all that bi-directional signalling seems a tad pointless now!
Then again, I suppose it could easily be worked like the southern section of the WCML (paired by speed).

The Trent Valley bidi isnt set up to do that. It only allows two track pairs.

 

[Boodiggy]

East Coast don't do it either.

I'm surprised NW&C don't do it on the Trent Valley section of the WCML - all that bi-directional signalling seems a tad pointless now!
Then again, I suppose it could easily be worked like the southern section of the WCML (paired by speed).

If you used only the outside lines in the Trent you wouldn’t need Bi-Di! Plus the outside lines are not bi-di signalled. But the Bi-Di gets plenty of use midweek nights.