WCML Capacity

[Kingfisher200262]

I caught a Manchester Piccadilly - Euston service this afternoon. As we departed Stoke, the SC announced that due to a bridge bash, the service would be diverted via Stafford and that we would probably arrive M-K and Euston at least 15 mins down.

As it turned out, we arrived right time.

Two questions (be gentle with me you ops guys, I'm a lowly rolling stock engineer!): -

1. If the WCML is so "full up", how can they slot an extra service in on the Stafford route at the drop of a hat?

2. How can we creep around the curve at Stone to pick up the Stafford route and end up right time by M-K? Is there really that much slack in the operational timings?

 

[northwichcat]

If it was an off-peak service then the answer is easy: the WC line is full up at peak times and the route via Stone is never full up!

Paths is only a term used for timetabling and doesn't really relate to actual running. If it did then sometimes trains would have to terminate early even if they just lost a couple of minutes. In reality Virgin have priority on the WCML and the signallers at Stockport frequently hold on time trains from the Sheffield, Buxton and Chester directions to allow a late running Pendolino through first.

 

[The Planner]

1. Thank the signallers for that, they know what they can fit in and where. They can work to much tighter margins than what we can plan to.
2. The train manager was a bit conservative there, it's only 5 or 6 miles longer via Stafford and you would never lose 15 going that way.

 

[Pumbaa]

1. If the WCML is so "full up", how can they slot an extra service in on the Stafford route at the drop of a hat?

2. How can we creep around the curve at Stone to pick up the Stafford route and end up right time by M-K? Is there really that much slack in the operational timings?

1. It's full from Rugby/MK to Euston, and very difficult to slot in extra paths there. There's room for 2 125EPS trains an hour more, or 1 non-EPS train by fag packet calculations.

2. As Planner said, not much longer. It doesn't hold many things up and is effectively in its own path.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Thanks guys.

To me, this is the strength of these forums.

They allow professionals in one sector of our industry to ask and learn from professionals in other sectors of our industry.

Many thanks again for imparting your knowledge.

 

[YorkshireRider]

The point about the amount of slack is still a good one. It would be intresting to compare the east coast mainline timetable of 8 years ago to todays one and look at the arrival times of identical services (by that i mean depart at same time and have the same stops) to see just how many extra mins have been added for no good reason other than to improve PPMs.

 

[Aictos]

The way I see it with late running trains is to add a little extra time so as a example if the 1018 Hertford North to Royston (service starts from Kings Cross) was running 12 minutes late due to the late arrival at Kings Cross of it's previous working then if the expected arrival is 1030, I announce it as being 15 minutes late just in case it does get later which is usually the case or it might get back lost time.

Where possible I also try to have as much information available to why the train is delayed so passengers know what's going on as there's nothing worse then being somewhere on the railway either on a train or a platform and there's no information.

 

[Tomnick]

Surely it's not all about PPM? If there's a good chance that trains are going to be knocked for a few minutes on a busy route approaching a London terminus, then I'd be happier as a punter knowing that such likely delays are accommodated for within the public timetable and that I'm not (as) likely to miss onward connections as a result!

 

[tbtc]

The point about the amount of slack is still a good one. It would be intresting to compare the east coast mainline timetable of 8 years ago to todays one and look at the arrival times of identical services (by that i mean depart at same time and have the same stops) to see just how many extra mins have been added for no good reason other than to improve PPMs.

In fairness some of the padding in the middle of journeys is to improve reliability and ensure a realistic timetable - adding extra minutes to journeys mid-route isn't necessarily to fiddle the stats.

I agree that examples where it takes twice as long to do Finsbury Park - KX than it does north bound (to give a fictitious example) would be deliberately to fiddle figures. However, adding another minute or two at Edinburgh/ York/Doncaster etc to make sure services catch up to hit their "slots" further on in the journey is acceptable in my eyes.

 

[jon0844]

Surely it's not all about PPM? If there's a good chance that trains are going to be knocked for a few minutes on a busy route approaching a London terminus, then I'd be happier as a punter knowing that such likely delays are accommodated for within the public timetable and that I'm not (as) likely to miss onward connections as a result!

It does make more sense to have a timetable that works to a 'worst case scenario'. Many trains into King's Cross will not be held waiting for a platform and arrive early, but many won't.

Given that people make plans around timetables, including connections, it wouldn't be sensible to risk more trains being late (irrespective of whether it results in more or less fines).

The railway can't win though, as I've been on trains held outside KGX because they're 5-6 minutes early and people start tutting and moaning that they're delayed. Okay, so they're not looking at their timetable and probably forgot what time it was due to arrive, but being stationery for more than a few seconds seems to trigger an automatic sighing response.

What is probably worse is that the padding is all at the end in most cases (it has to be, or trains would have to be held longer at stations along the route in order not to run early) and so a delayed train might arrive on time, yet have held up people who were alighting earlier.

 

[YorkshireRider]

Yeah i agree with the last 2 posts, it was more the time at the end of the journey i was refering to. I dont think a train thats 15 late at Peterbro and so people miss connections to Norwich, Stanstead etc should because it only arrives 7/8 late to Kings X be classed as a on time arrival. I think it gives a slightly distorted view of how good performance is, but as i say do agree with tbtc's view on a few mins on route (although TPE take the **** a bit with there airport services at York)