Watford Junction Blockade 8-25 August 2014

[IrishDave]

It's still equally likely to confound a certain group of customers too: those who travel at the weekend!

Yes, but weekends at least afford the possibility of diversions via the Chiltern main line. Diverting that way on a weekday is essentially impossible without taking an axe to Chiltern's timetable; at least on weekends it's a bit thinner and diversions can probably happen even on Saturdays (Sundays are no problem). So from my point of view living in Coventry, I'd rather have a few extra weekends of diverted (but direct) trains to London, than two weeks of no trains to London without changing at Leamington or Reading - and even then all the trains would be much shorter than a Pendolino, with little chance of significant strengthening.

For commuters from Hemel/MK/Northampton etc. (or at least the vast majority who work on weekdays), this means no significant disruption to their commuting, except perhaps between Christmas and New Year (I'm betting that if the August block doesn't happen, the 25th-29th Dec 2014 block will get a bit longer to compensate). Sure, it will mean disruption for a longer period of time; all I'm saying is that's not necessarily worse than shorter (but more intense) disruption.

 

[DXMachina]

And perhaps wait until Croxley comes online in a couple of weeks so that pax can be shoveled onto the Met at anything up to 6tph, possibly 9tph at a push.

in a couple of weeks? Croxley rail link??

As someone resident in Croxley, take it from me that they still have to build a 200 metre viaduct, lay several miles of double track over a single track route, widen a bridge, install 4 points and 2 crossovers, and associated resignalling, ,and re-electrify from Watford High St to Junction with a 4th rail

Its several years away. All they've done so far is start clearing up the route and an awful lot of drill-testing of underlying soil formations

 

[PeterY]

in a couple of weeks? Croxley rail link??

As someone resident in Croxley, take it from me that they still have to build a 200 metre viaduct, lay several miles of double track over a single track route, widen a bridge, install 4 points and 2 crossovers, and associated resignalling, ,and re-electrify from Watford High St to Junction with a 4th rail

Its several years away. All they've done so far is start clearing up the route and an awful lot of drill-testing of underlying soil formations

Don't forget that Watford Junction platforms 1 to 4 will need rebuilding for the lenght of S8's.

 

[Nym]

in a couple of weeks? Croxley rail link??

As someone resident in Croxley, take it from me that they still have to build a 200 metre viaduct, lay several miles of double track over a single track route, widen a bridge, install 4 points and 2 crossovers, and associated resignalling, ,and re-electrify from Watford High St to Junction with a 4th rail

Its several years away. All they've done so far is start clearing up the route and an awful lot of drill-testing of underlying soil formations

Typo luv. I ment to put years...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't forget that Watford Junction platforms 1 to 4 will need rebuilding for the lenght of S8's.

How long are the platforms there?

 

[DXMachina]

Typo luv. I ment to put years...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


How long are the platforms there?

Sorry!!

If you look at Watford Junction on google maps the satellite pic shows a 6 car train (313 or 378, not sure which) completely filling those platforms. S-stock cars look to be shorter but not by that much....

 

[Nym]

An S8 is approximately 128m long over the couplers, with the 378s moddeled as 20.4m per car, that gives 122.4m so wouldn't need much more length, add in that one would need to fit S Stock position detectors for the doors, and that the signals sit beyond the end of the platform (I'd need to check a scale diagram for this, but don't work for NR) I'd suspect one could simply use the fitted SDO to not open the end or very end door at Watford Junction. for the extra 5.4m.

 

[swt_passenger]

The extra platform length needed is probably achievable by just squaring off the existing ramped ends.

 

[Grumpy]

Why can we never look at the bigger picture in this country?

Which is what someone has done here. Rather than make a decision based solely on NR saving a few pounds and to hell with the railway users, we now seem to have a solution that reflects the potential costs and disruption to users.

 

[Nym]

The extra platform length needed is probably achievable by just squaring off the existing ramped ends.

All depends on if the signals need moving back at all, then of course you'll sod up the overlaps and whatnot so don't want to be doing that.

 

[OxtedL]

Plenty of the documents related to the TWA Order for Croxley are available here (be aware some of those files are quite big).

Appendix 33 "2.Cost reports", talks about 3&4 being lengthened, but 1&2 only getting regauging - indeed, a £200k cost reduction is noted by not having to lengthen 1&2 (third last page).

I can't yet see if the reason behind not needing to lengthen it is mentioned anywhere, so don't know if it'd be SDO, them already being long enough, moving buffer stops etc.

 

[Nym]

Plenty of the documents related to the TWA Order for Croxley are available here (be aware some of those files are quite big).

Appendix 33 "2.Cost reports", talks about 3&4 being lengthened, but 1&2 only getting regauging - indeed, a £200k cost reduction is noted by not having to lengthen 1&2 (third last page).

I can't yet see if the reason behind not needing to lengthen it is mentioned anywhere, so don't know if it'd be SDO, them already being long enough, moving buffer stops etc.

My money would be on operationally only using 3 and 4 for S8 services, with 1 and 2 being fitted with the appropriate position detectors for use, enabling the SDO to work properly. This would be if the signalling would support an S8 in these platforms, if not, I'd say that S8s will be operationally banned and have this enforced by the signalling system so that no LU train would be able to be platformed into 1 or 2 and the paths locked against train detection. (Similar to entry into Queens Park North Sheds from NR)...

 

[Trainfan344]

From the birmingham post this morning:

Councillors have suggested travellers should go on holiday this summer – a long way from Birmingham.

Train users going from Birmingham to London are facing a month of misery when parts of the West Coast Mainline close for £81 million engineering works

A series of upgrades to junctions and signals outside Watford will be carried out between August 9 and 25, and travellers are being urged to prepare for the worst.

Source: http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/local-news/passengers-face-summer-delays-west-6566068?ptnr_rid=93408&icid=eml_BirminghamPostdaily_NewsReadMore3

So looks like the blockade is on.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Newspapers are often very wrong.

 

[The Planner]

The newspapers are wrong, the blockade is 99% dead.

 

[Starmill]

Which is what someone has done here. Rather than make a decision based solely on NR saving a few pounds and to hell with the railway users, we now seem to have a solution that reflects the potential costs and disruption to users.

It very much depends on if the net loses are a function of total number of journeys disrupted or the qualitative effect of the disruption.

 

[carriageline]

The newspapers are wrong, the blockade is 99% dead.

So no blockade at all? Or are they still doing the weekend blockades?

 

[The Planner]

You'll still get bank holiday and weekend blocks but the big one is pretty much dead from what I hear.

 

[al green]

Just got confirmation via LM that long blockades are cancelled. Here is revised schedule for 2014;

 Sat 3 May to Mon 5 May
 Sat 9 August to Mon 11 August
 Sat 16 August to Mon 18 August
 Sat 23 August to Tue 26 August
 Wed 24 December to Mon 29 December

 

[ironstone11]

Just got confirmation via LM that long blockades are cancelled.

Press release from Network Rail:-
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...ine-during-essential-Watford-upgrad-1fb5.aspx

 

[joeykins82]

Is there any information about whether the blockades on Monday 11th August, Monday 18th August and Tuesday 26th August are all day blockades or just later than normal starts of service (with associated risk of overrunning works affecting the morning peak)?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there any information about whether the blockades on Monday 11th August, Monday 18th August and Tuesday 26th August are all day blockades or just later than normal starts of service (with associated risk of overrunning works affecting the morning peak)?

Normally, in this context 'Sat to Monday' means something like end of service Friday night until normal start of service on Monday. So up to about 54 hours.

On the bank holiday weekend it means start of service on the Tuesday.

 

[The Planner]

Meant to be elements of two track running for around 12 hours of the day after the blocks aswell. The main blocks will probably come off around 0400-0600.

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder what work has been deferred

 

[The Planner]

Nothing from what I have read.

 

[DarloRich]

Nothing from what I have read.

That will be interesting! Should be fun to plan and sequence all of that work

 

[carriageline]

What are they doing The Planner? Talking to some siggies at work I know they are sorting out the TSR, is it any resignalling work to do with Watford box shutting soon?

 

[The Planner]

Track work and re-signalling Watford into Wembley box.