Waterloo Intercity Services

[Hongkong1]

Seeing the thread about the route of the Eurostar out of Waterloo has got me thinking about the small number of intercity city services that operated to / from Waterloo during the day around the mid-nineties.

In addition to the night sleeper from Cornwall, I recall Manchester, Edinburgh and possibly Sheffield as destinations. Were there any others?

I don't recall these services lasting very long but can't remember exactly when they finished - can anyone remember? Thanks

 

[Mag_seven]

There was a Cardiff to Waterloo HST that ran on Fridays round about 1996ish

 

[Bill57p9]

Were those InterCity services not limited to Eurostar passengers only?
I recall them being very lightly loaded.

I believe Manchester and possibly Glasgow were also destinations.

 

[Mag_seven]

Were those InterCity services not limited to Eurostar passengers only?

The Cardiff services weren't.

 

[Hongkong1]

Were those InterCity services not limited to Eurostar passengers only?
I recall them being very lightly loaded.

I believe Manchester and possibly Glasgow were also destinations.

Good point about being limited to Eurostar passengers and the light loadings might explain why the services didn't last very long.

 

[Henffordd]

I used one of these services from Coventry, and back, in the 1990s. Train came from Manchester, I think, and connected with Eurostar. An HST both ways. The station staff at Coventry worked hard to dissuade any other passengers for London to board. I think there were no more than 6 of us on the train from Coventry. Perhaps 10 on the way back.

 

[30907]

Seeing the thread about the route of the Eurostar out of Waterloo has got me thinking about the small number of intercity city services that operated to / from Waterloo during the day around the mid nineties. In addition to the night sleeper from Cornwall, I recall Manchester, Edinburgh and possibly Sheffield as destinations. Were there any others? I don't recall these services lasting very long but can't remember exactly when they finished - can anyone remember? Thanks

There was an East Coast service, but not one from Sheffield.
IIRC the Manchester via Brum formed the Edinburgh (via Leeds?) and v.v.

 

[Harpo]

Maybe not an ‘InterCity’ service by this point……

The long standing 0150 ex-Fishguard Harbour ran as a (Wales & West??) 158 to Waterloo for a time with a return working to Maesteg, possibly the most bizarre destination ever for a regular service from Waterloo?

 

[Trainguy34]

Maybe not an ‘InterCity’ service by this point……

The long standing 0150 ex-Fishguard Harbour ran as a (Wales & West??) 158 to Waterloo for a time with a return working to Maesteg, possibly the most bizarre destination ever for a regular service from Waterloo?

Wow, that just sounds painful. Ouch.

 

[Helvellyn]

Think the two HSTs were effectively hired in by EuroStar and possibly used paths that would have been for North of London services. Operates by CrossCountry but not able to sell tickets for Intermediate stations (or even Waterloo) because it would likely have been seen as revenue abstractive or EuroStar trying to act as an Open Access operator for domestic services!

Wales & West with their 158s were more likely just pushing at a new service (like First North Western with their Euston services). I believe this went at some point in the 2000s with the South West Trains Bristol services being a partial replacement.

First Great Western running the Night Riveria Sleeper to Waterloo was very much about trying to feed connecting traffic to/from EuroStar. Given the lack of European flights from Newquay, Plymouth and Exeter I think the nearest airport to get a direct flight to Paris was Bristol (British Airways franchise carrier) or Heathrow for Brussels. So the once a day nature of the service, with dedicated stock that had an ECS move to/from Old Oak Common depot, probably made it a low cost/low risk think to try.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Maybe not an ‘InterCity’ service by this point……

The long standing 0150 ex-Fishguard Harbour ran as a (Wales & West??) 158 to Waterloo for a time with a return working to Maesteg, possibly the most bizarre destination ever for a regular service from Waterloo?

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a source that said a 158 started from Coryton to Waterloo.

 

[Rescars]

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a source that said a 158 started from Coryton to Waterloo.

I recall catching a Waterloo-bound Alphaline service from Cardiff c.1997. It came in from further west, but I can't recall where it started. Splendid way of going direct to Clapham Junction whilst avoiding the Underground. The train announcements were made by the guard in English and Churchillian French "for the benefit of (I suspect non-existent) Eurostar passengers"!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Didn't a number of Class 158 Sprinters (with Wales and West 'Alphaline' branding) operate through journeys in the late 1990s/early 2000s between Manchester Piccadilly and London Waterloo via some ridiculously circuitous route, which included calls at Crewe, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Bristol, Bath, Salisbury + Woking?

 

[ls2270]

Didn't a number of Class 158 Sprinters (with Wales and West 'Alphaline' branding) operate through journeys in the late 1990s/early 2000s between Manchester Piccadilly and London Waterloo via some ridiculously circuitous route, which included calls at Crewe, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Bristol, Bath, Salisbury + Woking?

They did. 1517 Monday to Friday and 1417 on Saturdays from Waterloo if I remember correctly. The Monday to Friday service reversed at Newport, whereas the Saturday one used the Maindee Curve. They also had the distinction of passing through two stations with the same name on one journey…Whitchurch in Hampshire and Whitchurch in Shropshire.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a source that said a 158 started from Coryton to Waterloo.

No, never Coryton. Carmarthen and Fishguard Harbour were originating points , though.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

They did. 1517 Monday to Friday and 1417 on Saturdays from Waterloo if I remember correctly.

Was the end-to-end journey time something like 7 hours?

 

[ls2270]

Maybe not an ‘InterCity’ service by this point……

The long standing 0150 ex-Fishguard Harbour ran as a (Wales & West??) 158 to Waterloo for a time with a return working to Maesteg, possibly the most bizarre destination ever for a regular service from Waterloo?

Yes indeed, this return journey also ran via the West London Line and Reading, unlike the others which ran via Woking and Salisbury.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

Was the end-to-end journey time something like 7 hours?

Probably something like that! The Solari board display for it at Waterloo was also cobbled together from the Wales and West Cardiff display and the former HST service to Manchester, so never displayed the stations between Bristol Temple Meads/Newport and Crewe!

 

[MotCO]

There was a Cardiff to Waterloo HST that ran on Fridays round about 1996ish

Was that the first time HSTs served Waterloo? There was some discussion about HSTs being diverted to Waterloo when Paddington was closed fairly recently, presumably for Elizabeth Line or HS2 work, and I thought that that was the first time HSTs had gone to Waterloo.

 

[ls2270]

Was that the first time HSTs served Waterloo? There was some discussion about HSTs being diverted to Waterloo when Paddington was closed fairly recently, presumably for Elizabeth Line or HS2 work, and I thought that that was the first time HSTs had gone to Waterloo.

Yes, as far as I’m aware. Some were also additionally diverted to and from Waterloo in the aftermath of the Southall crash in 1997.

 

[norbitonflyer]

On some 1970s publicity showing the "Inter City" network in a Harry Beck style diagram (branded "the Overground"), Waterloo to Southampton and Charing Cross -waterloo- Dover were included as "Inter City" routes.
And at other times early Mark 2 stock branded "Inter City" appeared on several routes not part of what became the Inter City sector - Waterloo-Salisbury-Exeter and Edinburgh -Glasgow for example. (Although Salisbury, Exeter, Edinburgh and Glasgow are all indubitably cities)

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Didn't a number of Class 158 Sprinters (with Wales and West 'Alphaline' branding) operate through journeys in the late 1990s/early 2000s between Manchester Piccadilly and London Waterloo via some ridiculously circuitous route, which included calls at Crewe, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Bristol, Bath, Salisbury + Woking?

IIRC these passed non stop through Salisbury, notable for being the first timetabled service to do so in a very long time (possibly since the infamous crash there in the early 20th Century

 

[Mcr Warrior]

IIRC these passed non stop through Salisbury, notable for being the first timetabled service to do so in a very long time (possibly since the infamous crash there in the early 20th Century

Certainly be interesting to see all the various timings. Believe that in 1996 it was an 0737 departure from Manchester Piccadilly (direct to London Waterloo). Not sure if that was the only such daily working (SuX?).

 

[The exile]

First Great Western running the Night Riveria Sleeper to Waterloo was very much about trying to feed connecting traffic to/from EuroStar. Given the lack of European flights from Newquay, Plymouth and Exeter I think the nearest airport to get a direct flight to Paris was Bristol (British Airways franchise carrier) or Heathrow for Brussels. So the once a day nature of the service, with dedicated stock that had an ECS move to/from Old Oak Common depot, probably made it a low cost/low risk think to try.

It also got it conveniently out of the way of all the works preceding HEx (electrification and all that jazz)

 

[jfollows]

IIRC these passed non stop through Salisbury, notable for being the first timetabled service to do so in a very long time (possibly since the infamous crash there in the early 20th Century

The first iteration of the Bristol-Waterloo services in 1995 ran non-stop Trowbridge-Basingstoke; I caught them in Bath to get to Basingstoke because I worked for IBM and had reason to visit colleagues there.
EDIT May 1995 timetable 1O20 06:00 Carmarthen-Waterloo (11w09) in attached timetable extract passed Salisbury 09/48.5:

w - advertised 2 minutes later

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2024 ==

Certainly be interesting to see all the various timings. Believe that in 1996 it was an 0737 departure from Manchester Piccadilly (direct to London Waterloo). Not sure if that was the only such daily working (SuX?).

The working timetable archive appears to have been slightly reorganised, but the ones for 1994-2002 are at https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/SO_506bb63b-dadf-497e-901d-1673556bcffd/ ( Railtrack PLC > Operations > Working Timetable). June 1996 CE at https://history.networkrail.co.uk/uncategorized/IO_f8ff9484-b02d-47d5-afd1-27115052c67c/ covers Manchester area. 1O86 07:37 HST Piccadilly-Waterloo from platform 10 for example (CE169). Down working 1M97 15:42 Waterloo, arriving Piccadilly 19:37 (page CE112).

 

[Helvellyn]

On some 1970s publicity showing the "Inter City" network in a Harry Beck style diagram (branded "the Overground"), Waterloo to Southampton and Charing Cross -waterloo- Dover were included as "Inter City" routes.
And at other times early Mark 2 stock branded "Inter City" appeared on several routes not part of what became the Inter City sector - Waterloo-Salisbury-Exeter and Edinburgh -Glasgow for example. (Although Salisbury, Exeter, Edinburgh and Glasgow are all indubitably cities)

InterCity was a brand pre-sectorisation so a number of longer distance regional routes were part of the network. Plus the Bournemouth and Dover routes has EMUs with more susbanstial catering vehicles (REPs and BEPs accordingly) than the Brighton line Buffets in the CIGs.

The Bournemouth route, along with TransPennine and Edinburgh-Glasgow were considered to be included in the InterCity sector but ultimately weren't. The latter two were on the wishlist to receive HSTs in BR's build plans, but it's interesting that the Bournemouth route eventually got the Wessex Electrics, considered by many the best iteration of the Mark 3 design. In original form I'd agree they were superior to the HST interiors of the time that still had the IC70 seating. In a fantasy universe the Wessex Electrics would have been InterCity units, with a follow-on AC variant for London-Norwich.

 

[Davester50]

On some 1970s publicity showing the "Inter City" network in a Harry Beck style diagram (branded "the Overground"), Waterloo to Southampton and Charing Cross -waterloo- Dover were included as "Inter City" routes.
And at other times early Mark 2 stock branded "Inter City" appeared on several routes not part of what became the Inter City sector - Waterloo-Salisbury-Exeter and Edinburgh -Glasgow for example. (Although Salisbury, Exeter, Edinburgh and Glasgow are all indubitably cities)

That poster is available on eBay if you fancy it!

 

[Taunton]

IIRC these passed non stop through Salisbury, notable for being the first timetabled service to do so in a very long time (possibly since the infamous crash there in the early 20th Century

The same was said about the early 1950s "Devon Belle" Pullman, which likewise did so .