Was told I would not get a fine.

[AlterEgo]

So i used the machine outside the station and i clicked the railcard but i didn't have a railcard as i didnt know.

So why would you choose the option which said you had a railcard?

 

[BongoStar]

You've been charged £30 for a railcard, £12 for a ticket and £90 as a fee for costs by the sound of it? Seems to me the correct action would have been to issue a Penalty Fare so you would have been given the opportunity to only pay £50 instead of the £90 element. However this option wasn't offered to you. You can't do anything about that as unfortunately you made the mistake. The extra £40 isn't a great outcome for you of course but it could have been much, much worse. You got away with using the ticket even though you weren't entitled to it on the outward didn't you? So you have at least not been charged anything in respect of that.

I may be wrong, but I don't think that option would have been correct. Penalty Fares are for genuine mistakes, not a deliberate attempt to use a railcard you don't have, per OP below.

So i used the machine outside the station and i clicked the railcard but i didn't have a railcard as i didnt know.

If anything, OP is lucky to have been offered what he got. A £90 admin cost and just a £12 single leg (instead of both) without any action on his part. There are numerous cases of people having to pay much more, after literally begging for OOC settlement.

 

[Starmill]

I may be wrong, but I don't think that option would have been correct. Penalty Fares are for genuine mistakes, not a deliberate attempt to use a railcard you don't have, per OP below.

Yes you are wrong. It's listed specifically as a reason for issuing a Penalty Fare. Hope that helps.

 

[BongoStar]

Yes you are wrong. It's listed specifically as a reason for issuing a Penalty Fare. Hope that helps.

Thanks. Good to know.

 

[6Gman]

Unfortunately staff will sometimes say things to prevent an escalation on the train, even if they know the resolution they suggest isn’t likely to happen.

And sometimes passengers misunderstand what they have been told.

 

[BongoStar]

And sometimes passengers misunderstand what they have been told.

Agreed. I tend to believe this is what has happened most of the time.

A guard saying: "Don't worry, you won't be fined" is just that. Fines are issued by courts. Most passengers assume any form of payment is a "Fine" and when they get a PF or OOC settlement, they are surprised, as they were expecting "no fine".

 

[Starmill]

This is a distinction that just doesn't exist other than in legal proceedings, or people trying to make themselves sound clever on the internet. Nearly any dictionary you care to consult would clear it up for you, for example:

an amount of money that has to be paid as a punishment for not obeying a rule or law

fine

1. good or good enough; healthy and well: 2. excellent or much better than…

dictionary.cambridge.org

It's no different from people who claim they don't understand the expression "train station" because it's incorrect, or argue that compensation for a delay isn't a refund. What you mean is that you don't describe it like that yourself (indeed I personally don't use those terms in those situations either).

 

[Dirty_Mac]

Here comes our weekly "what is a fine" debate again. Circling back to the original point, what the RPI said at the moment honestly doesn't matter. It's definitely scummy but OP clearly broke the rules (as to why they haven't told us yet) and the £102 settlement offer is the best case scenario now.

 

[AlbertBeale]

So i used the machine outside the station and i clicked the railcard but i didn't have a railcard as i didnt know. The guard specifically said that if i bought a railcard it would be fine. I did end up buying a railcard after the conversation. He was definitely talking about paying a fine as he said that i should just pay £30 for a railcard then pay the £100 for a fine so he definitely knew i didnt have one.

I don't understand - didn't know what? Didn't know that you didn't have a railcard(?!), so you chose a discounted ticket that was only valid if yuo DID have a railcard??

 

[Royston Vasey]

We often see people come to us saying they bought a "railcard" understanding that word to be interchangeable with "ticket". Perhaps now far fewer tickets are sold as actual "cards" this may become less of an issue.

Railcards are a product bought by relatively savvy travellers and how they work may not be obvious to a new traveller. However if the OP, perhaps aware that a few years earlier they'd qualify for a child ticket, saw "16-25 Railcard" and thought it was a universal and automatic discount based on age. A 16-25 ticket. It's a naive assumption at best.

We should never assume even the most basic of definitions in our world are correctly and universally understood. I wouldn't be surprised if the conversation with the staff member also had room for misinterpretation by the OP.

That said, what has happened has happened and the OP has been given an unusually modest settlement offer for a strict liability offence. They have received honest and sound advice here from experts given only one side of the story, and would do well to rein in the hubris, learn from it, pay it and move on.

 

[jumble]

To be fair, and it's off topic, seniors get discounts in a lot of places and can just ask for a senior rate. If they look old enough, they'd get it.

Not unfeasible that someone may expect the same at a ticket office, as they would a theatre box office (for example). Of course, I'd then expect the ticket clerk to ask for their railcard and then refuse the sale if they don't have one. But I can certainly believe they might genuinely expect a discount.

This actually applies to some railway travel tickets as well
Wherry Line Senior Ranger
The Wherry Line Senior Ranger for everybody over 60 years of age is just £8.50. Time restrictions are the same as for the Adult ticket and no Railcard is required to take advantage of this discount.

 

[AlterEgo]

Here comes our weekly "what is a fine" debate again. Circling back to the original point, what the RPI said at the moment honestly doesn't matter. It's definitely scummy but OP clearly broke the rules (as to why they haven't told us yet) and the £102 settlement offer is the best case scenario now.

It's front line staff avoiding conflict, something the railway is trying to prioritise while at the same time trying to criminalise passengers. These two things cannot be resolved in a mutually exclusive way.

 

[Cowley]

I think the OP has received the relevant advice and we’re starting to stray off topic now.

@inferno47 - if you need more advice then use the report function below to contact us.

Thanks everyone