Was Scotrail a separate sector under British Rail?

[Transilien]

Was Scotrail a distinctive sector of British Rail or was it just a brand of Regional Railways? If it was just a brand were any Inter-City services operated under the Scotrail brand?

 

[Ken H]

Scotrail was part of Provincial. Even Edinburgh-Glasgow were Provincial
Inter City ran into Scotland, of course. But nothing internal.

 

[Taunton]

Was Scotrail a distinctive sector of British Rail or was it just a brand of Regional Railways? If it was just a brand were any Inter-City services operated under the Scotrail brand?

Other way round. The Class 27 push-pull Mk2 sets were branded "Inter-City".

 

[Ken H]

@Taunton but that pre dates sectorisation. Many coaches were branded inter city and were used on what were to become Provincial routes. When your pic was taken, coaches were regional assets not sector ones.

 

[David Stewart]

ScotRail (initially it was Scotrail but people asked what is Sco trail? So it was changed to ScotRail). It was setup by Chris Green, General Manager of the Scottish Region, in the early 80s as a disctinctive brand for the rail network in Scotland. The Scottish Region HQ was Buchanan House in Glasgow, he changed the name to ScotRail House.
The name has lived on since.

 

[Transilien]

So under the organising for quality plan ScotRail would have ceased to exist with the phasing out of regions?

 

[JonathanH]

So under the organising for quality plan ScotRail would have ceased to exist with the phasing out of regions?

It was one of five Regional Railways operations, ScotRail, North East, North West, Central, and Wales & West

 

[Dr Hoo]

It was one of five Regional Railways operations, ScotRail, North East, North West, Central, and Wales & West

Yes. Speak it softly but basically just a ‘profit centre’ as most businesses would describe the set-up.

 

[Falcon1200]

The name has lived on since.

Although with privatisation HQ had to go back to Buchanan House, as Scotrail became just one part of the railway!

 

[hexagon789]

ScotRail (initially it was Scotrail but people asked what is Sco trail? So it was changed to ScotRail). It was setup by Chris Green, General Manager of the Scottish Region, in the early 80s as a disctinctive brand for the rail network in Scotland. The Scottish Region HQ was Buchanan House in Glasgow, he changed the name to ScotRail House.
The name has lived on since.

The term predated Chris Green's tenure, but he certainly did more to have the name publisicised and build on the improvements made throughout the decade.

 

[Helvellyn]

The Edinburgh-Glasgow push-pull services had been in consideration for allocation to InterCity at sectorisation but was ultimately excluded. Given that it was modernised with Mark 2F/Mark 3A stock (and the dedicated 47/7s) to replace the worn out 27s and Mark 2s it can be seen why it was considered so.

I think it was under Chris Green that the ScotRail Express branding was introduced for these services, with the adapted InterCity livery (red stripe replaced by Caledonian Blue), and also applied to all the Mark 2 coaches used on the Edinburgh/Glasgow push-pull sets as well.

 

[hexagon789]

I think it was under Chris Green that the ScotRail Express branding was introduced for these services, with the adapted InterCity livery (red stripe replaced by Caledonian Blue)

Late-1984 and the original livery had Rail Blue but reputedly Chris Green wasn't keen and a Caledonian Blue variation was rolled out instead; at least three vehicles carried the original version though - a Mk3A TSO, Mk3A SLEP and Mk2D TSOT.

and also applied to all the Mark 2 coaches used on the Edinburgh/Glasgow push-pull sets as well.

Until October 1987, the Mk2 air-con sets were pretty much exclusively used on Glasgow - Aberdeen and the two ScotRail Edinburgh - Aberdeen services with the E&G being all Mk3 bar the one peak hour extra with the 2Z set. After October 1987 things became more fluid and Mk2 air-con sets did appear on E&G services more commonly, though Mk3s were obviously still preferred.

 

[Transilien]

I wonder if BR had continued ScotRail would get to be its own sector with devolution.

 

[Falcon1200]

The Provincial Sector Scotrail services were effectively a totally separate operation anyway, given that the only point of contact with the other the BR regions was Carlisle, with just the odd train running beyond to and from Newcastle. 99.9% of Scotrail trains operated entirely within Scotland; The only trains in the fleet which went outside Scotland were the DMUs working to Carlisle as above.

 

[Taunton]

The Provincial Sector Scotrail services were effectively a totally separate operation anyway, given that the only point of contact with the other the BR regions was Carlisle, with just the odd train running beyond to and from Newcastle. 99.9% of Scotrail trains operated entirely within Scotland; The only trains in the fleet which went outside Scotland were the DMUs working to Carlisle as above.

This is how it had long been, way before Sectors. Scottish-allocated stock was always just used within Scotland; the Anglo-Scottish expresses on all routes were run with stock from the Eastern and London Midland regions. This extended to the Sleepers, which by definition spend half their daytimes standing in Scotland.

 

[Davester50]

Scottish-allocated stock was always just used within Scotland; the Anglo-Scottish expresses on all routes were run with stock from the Eastern and London Midland regions.

Apart from the Craigentinny Sc Prefixed HSTs of course.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It was one of five Regional Railways operations, ScotRail, North East, North West, Central, and Wales & West

It's worth remembering that major stations outside London were sectorised as Regional stations, not IC, as Regional would be the majority user.
Certainly Glasgow Cen/QS, Leeds, Liverpool LS.
Can't remember about Man Pic, New St, Newcastle.
Today I think all these are under NR management rather than the local TOC, but the local TOC normally does the dispatching.
Something else for GBR to reorganise.