Wales Rail, re schedule?

[anthony263]

How about putting the class 121 to work the addional workings to Fishguard Hbr? since its shorter than the heart of wales line.

I agree with the idea of using a parry people mover on the cardiff bay line anoter idea would be to use some on the Pontyclun - Beddau route once it is re-opened

 

[Greenback]

Potential for a couple of Parry People Movers in Wales? One for the Cardiff Bay branch, one for the Barry Island branch?

Stick the 121 off the Cardiff Bay branch onto the HoW and pack it out with rail enthusiasts?

The HoW doesn't need extra rail enthusiasts packing out its trains in the Summer! Yesterday there was a 3 car train on the HoW, and quite a few getting on at Llanelli!

Not sure about the PPM - the Bay trains can be quite busy, though I am not familiar with Barry Island loadings these days.

 

[anthony263]

they can be very busy particulary during peak times and at weekends. summer time they can be very packed. Dont really think a parry people mover would be good for the route

 

[Greenback]

they can be very busy particulary during peak times and at weekends. summer time they can be very packed. Dont really think a parry people mover would be good for the route

I suspected as much, but I;ve only been down there on a midweek spring evening in the last few years. The trains I caught were pretty quiet then!

 

[anthony263]

in the evenings they can be pretty quiete i admit
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
as for the heart of wales line, when ATW eventually get enough rolling stock i think the frequency should be increased to 7 trains per day, with perhaps re-building the Grovesend - Gorseinon -Gowerton Line and running the heart of wales trains via that route instead of via Llanelli which should save a few minutes.

 

[Greenback]

Llanelli does provide quite a bit of customer for the HoW trains. There always a few people getting off and on the trains to and from Llandeilo. Much as I'd like to see Gorseinon reconnected, I don't think it's worth it.

I won't lie in that the HoW trains allow an extra option for us Swansea commuters too!

 

[tbtc]

they can be very busy particulary during peak times and at weekends. summer time they can be very packed. Dont really think a parry people mover would be good for the route

It should be a bit faster/ better accelerating than the 121, so you could use it to run an improved frequency (which would mean more seats per hour)?

Just a thought

 

[jones_bangor]

The most effective way to free up stock in Wales is to get all the Arriva Mk2's into day to day use - we know there are at least 6 x coaches in serviceable condition....more could easily be found and brought up to standard. Bring along a 67 and DVT, and away you go.........

 

[merlodlliw]

The most effective way to free up stock in Wales is to get all the Arriva Mk2's into day to day use - we know there are at least 6 x coaches in serviceable condition....more could easily be found and brought up to standard. Bring along a 67 and DVT, and away you go.........

Agree, but ATW wont pay for 67s/DVTs to hire in or run, I recall one ATW CEO was sacked for buying in the Mk 2s.


Bob

 

[The Informer]

Agree, but ATW wont pay for 67s/DVTs to hire in or run, I recall one ATW CEO was sacked for buying in the Mk 2s.


Bob

Not as easy as that! Who's going to drive em? Arriva have alreday gone quiet on class 67 driver training, which kind of suggests this whole north to south WAG might get the plug pulled!!!

 

[anthony263]

There was an article in our free local newspaper, the Bridgend GEM, about the anniversiry of the railway coming to Maesteg, an interesting point raised about the Maesteg Branch going up to every 30 minutes in 2012 . My point is where is ATW planning on getting some dmu's to extend the ebbw Vale trains to Maesteg.

I know that they use 3 sets on the ebbw vale services so that the could get 4 which should be enough to run an hourly service, but then again, i think the extra dmu would be better used on running a full hourly service between Maesteg - Cardiff - Cheltenham.

Also i know it has been suggested of cutting back the swanlines to Port Talbot if the Maesteg line gets a half hourly service, with Pyle served by services to/from Manchester, i would like to know why as there does seem to be enough room for the services.

If they want these extra services, maybe they should order so bi-mode class 172's which could be converted to full emu's when the valley lines are wired. that could free up some class 150's to work in west wales & the heart of wales route.

 

[Rhydgaled]

There was an article in our free local newspaper, the Bridgend GEM, about the anniversiry of the railway coming to Maesteg, an interesting point raised about the Maesteg Branch going up to every 30 minutes in 2012 . My point is where is ATW planning on getting some dmu's to extend the ebbw Vale trains to Maesteg.

I know that they use 3 sets on the ebbw vale services so that the could get 4 which should be enough to run an hourly service, but then again, i think the extra dmu would be better used on running a full hourly service between Maesteg - Cardiff - Cheltenham.

Also i know it has been suggested of cutting back the swanlines to Port Talbot if the Maesteg line gets a half hourly service, with Pyle served by services to/from Manchester, i would like to know why as there does seem to be enough room for the services.

If they want these extra services, maybe they should order so bi-mode class 172's which could be converted to full emu's when the valley lines are wired. that could free up some class 150's to work in west wales & the heart of wales route.

Well the new Fishguard service apparently requires an extra unit to allow it to run. I'm guessing that FGW will stop borrowing the 2 ATW 150s which will cover that 1 extra unit requirment for Fishguard and leave another for strenthening or other new services, or as an extra spare.

The best information I have found regarding the Bridgend - Cardiff section is this PDF.

It says:

On the basis of 4-6 minute headways we can identify at least 6 fast (20 minute) and 4 slow (30 minute) all stations or freight paths
between Bridgend and Cardiff

Going from that, I personally would suggest:

Fast Paths
1tph PAD - SWA Semi-Fast
1tph reserved for future 2nd PAD - SWA Semi-Fast or PAD - SWA Express (no stops at PTA or Bridgend)
1tph Manchester - SWA - Milford Haven/Pembroke Dock (175 or 158)
0.5tph CDF - CMN - FGH via Swansea District Line (158 or 153 pair)
0.5tph CDF - CMN via Swansea District Line (158 or 153 pair) (In the long term I'd like to see the line to Aberystwyth re-opened and if so this service would extend there).

That leaves 2tph which perhaps electric-hauled frieght could use in future.

Slow Paths
1tph SWA - Cheltenham Spa or Bristol Temple Meads (class 377) (all-stations, replacing Cardiff - Swansea Swanline service)
1tph Maesteg - Ebbw Vale Parkway or Cheltenham Spa (class 377) (all-stations)
2tph Designated Frieght Paths

For the 2nd train per hour to Maesteg I'd either make it a portion of the SWA - Bristol/Cheltenham stopper and spilt at Bridgend or extend one Vale Of Glamorgan service per hour from Bridend to Maesteg, hopefully with connections at Bridgend into one of the fast trains to Cardiff.

 

[Greenback]

I would like to see Swanline diverted around the Vale of Glamorgan. It would make rail travel to Cardiff Airport more attractive from the west, as well as increasing the services from Llantwit Major.

 

[anthony263]

I would like to see Swanline diverted around the Vale of Glamorgan. It would make rail travel to Cardiff Airport more attractive from the west, as well as increasing the services from Llantwit Major.

Ok so long a Pyle keeps an hourly fast service running via the direct route. vale of glamorgan services may need to be retimed however

However i would run a hourly Cardiff - Carmarthen express service which would run non stop between Cardiff & Port Talbot parkway with a journey time of 31 minutes. I deally i would like to see the link between Gowerton & Grovesned re-built so that heart of wales line services can run direct through goersinon and not reverse at Llanelli. these could connect with express services at a new station at Grovesned which could help reduce overcrowding on trains departing from Swansea.

Below are some times i have come up with for passengers services stopping at or passing through Bridgend.

Bridgend - Cardiff:

00 - London Paddington

05 - Ebbw Vale Parkway

Services from west wales via swansea district line will pass Bridgend at 12 minutes past the hour.

12 Aberdare Via Barry

18 - Nottingham uses current paths between Swansea & Cardiff used by semi fast manchester services. (west wales - Manchester services would run via the swansea district Line with new statiosn at Grovesned (for Pontardulais) Morriston & Llandarcy

30 - London Paddington (Early morning peak times only)

35 - Cheltenham Spa

42 - Aberdare Via Barry

47 - Bristol Temple Meads swanline service (could use displaced Heathrow connect class 360's or class 319's from thameslink if any available.) Also serves new station at Brackla about 3/4 minutes after departing Bridgend


Departures for Swansea:

12 - Maesteg

16 - Swansea

Non stopping district line services should pass through Bridgend at around 20 minutes past the hour following the FGW departure to Swansea.

37 - Swansea (Swanline from Bristol)

42 - Maesteg

46 - Swansea (evening services from London)

53- Swansea (Crosscountry from Nottingham)


There should be room available betwen the passenger services for freight. Maximum journey time between Cardiff & Bridgend is 25 minutes (Maesteg services which serve Pontyclun, Llanharren & Pencoed) and this is based on the Cardiff - Swansea/Maesteg routes being electrified.

The extension of the crosscountry services to swansea will restore a direct link between Swansea & Birmingham/Derby and should cut down on any delays caused by the short turn arounds at Cardiff central.

 

[Greenback]

Ok so long a Pyle keeps an hourly fast service running via the direct route. vale of glamorgan services may need to be retimed however

Yes, they would need to be retimed. I do think that Pyle deserves a stop on the Manchester trains as well.

 

[anthony263]

Another point or running the swanlines to Bristol TM would be that the portsmouth hbr services would have to depart cardiff at 00 minutes past the hour rather than at 30 minutes past the hour. that Bristol - Westbury /Weymouth services would also need to be swapped around so that they will depart from Bristol at 10 minutes past the hour rather than at 48 minutes past the hour.

Also on journeys to Bristol the trains would have to sit at Cardiff central for 15 minutes

 

[merlodlliw]

Not as easy as that! Who's going to drive em? Arriva have alreday gone quiet on class 67 driver training, which kind of suggests this whole north to south WAG might get the plug pulled!!!

The latest I hear is from Charlie Humes website, which reported this on Tuesday,

However, we hear that drivers who work the express have been told that they are to be 'converted' - given a short course in the differences in driving - from Class 57 to Class 67, which suggests that the train will continue. Mind you, they have been told this more than once in the past and it has yet to happen. Apparently Arriva have yet to apply for the necessary regulatory approval. Regarding the use of Class 175s, the question arises whether Arriva are actually permitted to hire out rolling stock to the Welsh Government which is part of its franchise fleet intended for use on franchised services.

So agree its all up in the WAGair, so to speak.

Back to Domestic matters of reality yesterday, a family travelled by train to Builth Rd Station for the International Welsh Pony & Cob Society event on the Royal Welsh Showground, down the road at Llanelwydd.
They were met by a colleague who had difficulty in finding the Station due to the A470 roadworks, he told me all station sign age had been taken down & it was pure luck a local told him how to find the station, on the family's return to Builth Road station by another person, it took so long to find the Station,the driver having passed the unmarked turn-off by several miles,in fact it was Newbridge before anyone was found to explain where it was,on arrival at the station, the train had well gone, on return to the Royal Welsh Showground, a lift was found for the family, but they were hours late home.

Now some one at Network Rail or ATW should have ensured signage was put up off the main road to the station, contractors way well have taken the old signs down, but that's no excuse.

On my return to Wrexham, on the same A470, I confirm not a sign was on view giving any direction to Builth Road station, what is more unforgivable is the fact Network Rails area office, is less that a few miles up the road at Llandrindod wells & must have been involved as a new bridge being constructed on the new A470 crosses over the railway.


Bob

 

[Gareth Marston]

The latest I hear is from Charlie Humes website, which reported this on Tuesday,

However, we hear that drivers who work the express have been told that they are to be 'converted' - given a short course in the differences in driving - from Class 57 to Class 67, which suggests that the train will continue. Mind you, they have been told this more than once in the past and it has yet to happen. Apparently Arriva have yet to apply for the necessary regulatory approval. Regarding the use of Class 175s, the question arises whether Arriva are actually permitted to hire out rolling stock to the Welsh Government which is part of its franchise fleet intended for use on franchised services.

So agree its all up in the WAGair, so to speak.

Back to Domestic matters of reality yesterday, a family travelled by train to Builth Rd Station for the International Welsh Pony & Cob Society event on the Royal Welsh Showground, down the road at Llanelwydd.
They were met by a colleague who had difficulty in finding the Station due to the A470 roadworks, he told me all station sign age had been taken down & it was pure luck a local told him how to find the station, on the family's return to Builth Road station by another person, it took so long to find the Station,the driver having passed the unmarked turn-off by several miles,in fact it was Newbridge before anyone was found to explain where it was,on arrival at the station, the train had well gone, on return to the Royal Welsh Showground, a lift was found for the family, but they were hours late home.

Now some one at Network Rail or ATW should have ensured signage was put up off the main road to the station, contractors way well have taken the old signs down, but that's no excuse.

On my return to Wrexham, on the same A470, I confirm not a sign was on view giving any direction to Builth Road station, what is more unforgivable is the fact Network Rails area office, is less that a few miles up the road at Llandrindod wells & must have been involved as a new bridge being constructed on the new A470 crosses over the railway.


Bob

Its been there and not there throughout the pointless road construction, they keep tinkering with temporary roads around that point and different access points.

 

[merlodlliw]

Its been there and not there throughout the pointless road construction, they keep tinkering with temporary roads around that point and different access points.

God knows what the cost of this bypass is, it has 14 entrances for works traffic,I am sure the money could be better spent on rail,this road extension seems pointless for such small amounts of traffic.

As for the station signage, Nr should sort this out,ill have a word with a local politician and get those who missed the train to write Carl Sgt.
Trouble is no one seems to care anymore.
Bob

 

[The Planner]

Why is it NRs responsibilty to put up road signs to a station, that is down to the local highways authority surely. I very much doubt that NR put signs on the M40 for Warwick Parkway for example.

 

[merlodlliw]

Why is it NRs responsibilty to put up road signs to a station, that is down to the local highways authority surely. I very much doubt that NR put signs on the M40 for Warwick Parkway for example.

You may be correct in what you say, I just presumed NR would check that sign age is in place, as they presumably own the station and it is NR who will be in discussions with WAG as the road crosses the line.

The highways Authority for this road is the Mid Wales Trunk Road Agency which is based in the same town as Network Rails office,Llandrindod Wells a mere ten miles or less from Builth Rd station.

Who ever is to blame, its the passenger who suffered as usual.

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

God knows what the cost of this bypass is, it has 14 entrances for works traffic,I am sure the money could be better spent on rail,this road extension seems pointless for such small amounts of traffic.

More money in road, profit margins and vested interests all round.

 

[Gareth Marston]

More money in road, profit margins and vested interests all round.

On a wider point the construction sector benefits more from road spend as this means construction work, investing in rail often means additional carriages that run on existing infrastructure. HS2 will of course turn this on its head with construction industry interested in winning contracts.

 

[The Informer]

I would put my wages on that signage being nothing to do with NR. Maybe the actual station signage itself on the forecourt and platforms yes but not on a highway.

 

[merlodlliw]

I would put my wages on that signage being nothing to do with NR. Maybe the actual station signage itself on the forecourt and platforms yes but not on a highway.

The temporary erection of the signage may have nothing to do with Network Rail, but to have a railway station in a rural area, with no signs to say it exists or how to get to it off a major A road is not giving a dam.

The station is owned by NR and managed by ATW, now if this was a shop/hotel or any kind of private business I am sure they would demand a sign to advise a temporary route that they exist and are open to the public.

The contractor may well be at fault not putting out signs(if NR or ATW) have supplied them, but nobody seems to check or care anymore.

However having brought this to the attention of the A,Ms for Radnor, I am sure this may change, but it gave a poor example of how not to do it, to non railway types & the customers of the railway.

Bob

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The contractor may well be at fault not putting out signs(if NR or ATW) have supplied them, but nobody seems to check or care anymore. However having brought this to the attention of the A,Ms for Radnor, I am sure this may change, but it gave a poor example of how not to do it, to non railway types & the customers of the railway.

How hopeful are you that matters may change? ATW tend to publicise events on parts of their website, encouraging the use of rail travel to attend them.

 

[merlodlliw]

How hopeful are you that matters may change? ATW tend to publicise events on parts of their website, encouraging the use of rail travel to attend them.

I am hopeful, I am now aware the elected A.M for Radnor,Kirsty Williams has demanded the Mid Wales Truck agency ensure signage is erected, with copies sent to NR/ ATW & the CEO of the contractors. As the problem was passed on via my listed A.Ms Aled Roberts & Mark Isherwood, they have confirmed to me the Local A.M as taken the above action.

Bob

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am hopeful, I am now aware the elected A.M for Radnor,Kirsty Williams has demanded the Mid Wales Truck agency ensure signage is erected, with copies sent to NR/ ATW & the CEO of the contractors. As the problem was passed on via my listed A.Ms Aled Roberts & Mark Isherwood, they have confirmed to me the Local A.M as taken the above action.

Bob

Perhaps the demands of Kirsty Williams concerning signage will have some positive effect when it comes to other events in the future. I was very concerned to have read matters concerning Builth Road recently.

 

[Markdvdman]

The HoW doesn't need extra rail enthusiasts packing out its trains in the Summer! Yesterday there was a 3 car train on the HoW, and quite a few getting on at Llanelli!

Not sure about the PPM - the Bay trains can be quite busy, though I am not familiar with Barry Island loadings these days.

Barry Island in the holidays is a NIGHTMARE for us workers!!!

In the week I travel Merthyr Tydfil to Cadoxton Tuesday to Thursday - I go from Llanelli on a Monday morning and back to Swansea/Llanelli on a Friday to be at my girlfriends in Gorslas.

It is so bad, I catch the 17:22 from Cadoxton as that is the only train that does not go through the island due to it being the VoG hourly. I then change in Treforest to get onto Merthyr.

The trains have been so rammed that I missed TWO trains running from Cadoxton last year as I could not get on them!

They are almost ALWAYS 2 car 150s, and would you believe 2 car pacer sets which are rammed beyond belief to Cardiff and often through to Merthyr!

They complain about lack of trains but this is ALWAYS a busy route in the sun and yet they cannot organise to have 4 car pacer sets at these times!

I cannot wait for the VoG half hourly service, and hopefully a miraculous retiming of a Bridgend to Merthyr train