Waiting for passengers when platform changes

[ValleyLines142]

It often used to happen at Newport before the station was refurbished (horribly) and re-signalled in the case of a westbound train (usually West Wales bound) was diverted from Platform 2 to Platform 1. (Self despatch) The tannoy announcement came as the train was running in and as the bi-lingual language used Welsh first, People would have to dash across the bridge as the train was leaving. Despite many hours on Newport statio, I have never yet heard any real voice announcement.

A last-minute platform alteration from platform 1 to platform 4 at Newport is far from fun!!

 

[infobleep]

Rarely a problem at Manchester Victoria - for with the exception of a few through services where the driver doesn't change - the last second platform change usually results in the driver plodding over the bridge behind all the passengers sprinting. I have occasionally remarked, whilst clutching my bag in one hand and a brew in the other: "Don't run folks it won't move without me..."

But surely you should be running to, or the train might end up being 10 minutes late, which would have knock on effects for other services. After all, as train companies say, they can't hold trains if they change platform at the last minute.

I'm half joking, half serious with my point there, in case anyone is wondering. I once spent the night at a train station because they switched the platform and I didn't notice. There was no announcement either. I had been in a waiting room at the time and not heard the train pull in. I was chatting to someone but wasn't listening to any loud music.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I honestly cannot recall too-late platform information being an issue until the last 10 years, but now that a 'couldn't care less' attitude about it as part of the overall 'right time departure' paranoia seems to be creeping in, whoever is in charge of franchising this week should implement a system which requires it to be managed - if passengers are there on time but are misdirected to the extent of missing their train it needs to be chalked up as a cancellation, just as much as if the train had never turned up.

Equally bad is not advising the platform at all until the last moment, and sometimes so late that those who have been waiting for information miss it. I hear that Marylebone has developed a reputation for this, to the extent of trains actually departing empty with everyone still waiting on the concourse - of course, they are chalked up in the official statistics as 'right time'.

I couldn't agree more. I'll give plenty of slack for delays due to weather, providing companies doing the best they can, but not for things like this.

 

[Tomnick]

But surely you should be running to, or the train might end up being 10 minutes late, which would have knock on effects for other services. After all, as train companies say, they can't hold trains if they change platform at the last minute.

I suspect that most drivers would be happy to let the delay minutes increase. Money talks, after all - perhaps a few late starts due to poor communication (of the platform alteration) might encourage the higher powers to do something about the problem!

 

[A-driver]

I suspect that most drivers would be happy to let the delay minutes increase. Money talks, after all - perhaps a few late starts due to poor communication (of the platform alteration) might encourage the higher powers to do something about the problem!

You wouldn't catch a driver running for any reason! We arnt paid to rush around after all.

 

[Tomnick]

Indeed not, you'll not find me running around at work either - in our case, a little bit of forward planning usually minimises the amount of walking (from one end of the box to the other) anyway. Either way, far better to take your time to get the job done properly than to rush and end up getting it wrong.

 

[455driver]

I suspect that most drivers would be happy to let the delay minutes increase. Money talks, after all - perhaps a few late starts due to poor communication (of the platform alteration) might encourage the higher powers to do something about the problem!

Or drivers wont rush to give the passengers enough time to get there!

Believe it or not most of us are more interested in shifting people than making sure a train leaves on time but empty!

 

[Tomnick]

I never doubted it! My point was that no-one (with any sense) is going to rush around to try to avoid a slight delay whilst putting themselves at greater risk of an oopsie...I wasn't being critical of my hard-working driving colleagues (and the rest ) - quite the opposite.

 

[DJL]

Why should the driver (or guard, cleaners etc) run? It's not his/her/their fault!

Although saying that I wouldn't expect the driver to be deliberately slow (unless it's to allow extra time for passengers, especially the less able, to also switch platforms).

A sensible walking pace is what is required.

 

[M60lad]

Maybe going of topic a bit, but thinking of trains from Lime Street-South Parkway how often are trains routed via the end of Edge Hill Depot (If people know where I mean), I'm talking about the top (higher lines) not the usual lower lines, there was once a coupe of years ago that this happened to a Northern stopping service I was on from Lime Street-South Parkway and I don't think it used the usual platforms through Mossley Hill and West Allerton but we crossed over and managed to use the normal platform at South Parkway

 

[infobleep]

You wouldn't catch a driver running for any reason! We arnt paid to rush around after all.

Well they refuse to wait for passengers as they claim the train can't be held, according to any response you might get back from customer relations staff. Yet it can be held for a driver to walk to the train rather than rush.

Now passengers don't have to rush but when the platform changes they generally do. Recently I saw a passenger hold open a train door and shout out is everyone here. You can't just change the platform at the last minute. Now this train was station staff despatched.

Personally I think everyone had got on board but anyone in a wheelchair or with push chairs certainly wouldn't have done so. The claim would be the train must leave as soon as possible or it will lead to delays to other services. Well surely the same is true for drivers needing to get to trains.

I'm not saying drivers should rush, just that perhaps similar rules should apply to passengers as well as drivers in these cases, especially when the trains are staff despatched.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why should the driver (or guard, cleaners etc) run? It's not his/her/their fault!

Although saying that I wouldn't expect the driver to be deliberately slow (unless it's to allow extra time for passengers, especially the less able, to also switch platforms).

A sensible walking pace is what is required.

It's also not the passengers fault that they switch the platform at the very last minute and then still expect the train to leave as soon as possible. possibly even before all passengers have boarded it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Or drivers wont rush to give the passengers enough time to get there!

Believe it or not most of us are more interested in shifting people than making sure a train leaves on time but empty!

That isn't the impression I get at Woking when platforms are changed at the very last minute. I'm not saying drivers are aware of the problem but station staff should be as they despatch the trains, well at the times I've seen it happen.

 

[fowler9]

Maybe going of topic a bit, but thinking of trains from Lime Street-South Parkway how often are trains routed via the end of Edge Hill Depot (If people know where I mean), I'm talking about the top (higher lines) not the usual lower lines, there was once a coupe of years ago that this happened to a Northern stopping service I was on from Lime Street-South Parkway and I don't think it used the usual platforms through Mossley Hill and West Allerton but we crossed over and managed to use the normal platform at South Parkway

Wow, if you are talking about the lines I think you are this happens incredibly rarely, basically the lines that come through the sidings that the Pendolinos park up in? Back when the bridge over that corner by the sidings and Wavertree Mystery Park (Towards the technology park) was being removed the 304's from Crewe to Liverpool and the stoppers from Warrington to Liverpool didn't run and they stopped the inter city trains on Platforms 3 and 4 at Allerton, West Allerton and Mossley Hill as they ran down the slow lines and through the carriage sidings. I honestly cannot think of another occasion this has happened in the last few decades.

 

[6Gman]

Maybe going of topic a bit, but thinking of trains from Lime Street-South Parkway how often are trains routed via the end of Edge Hill Depot (If people know where I mean), I'm talking about the top (higher lines) not the usual lower lines, there was once a coupe of years ago that this happened to a Northern stopping service I was on from Lime Street-South Parkway and I don't think it used the usual platforms through Mossley Hill and West Allerton but we crossed over and managed to use the normal platform at South Parkway

I believe that the line is the Up & Down Through and if used then it has to then go Slow Line to Allerton West Junction. I don't even know if it is still passed for passenger use - went that way on a Liverpool - Crewe train many, many years ago.

 

[455driver]

Well they refuse to wait for passengers as they claim the train can't be held, according to any response you might get back from customer relations staff. Yet it can be held for a driver to walk to the train rather than rush.

The train isnt being held for the driver though is it?

A train with no driver wont go anywhere even if it is despatched!

SWT get my goat with thier precious "west of England" route where they wont hold a train for a few minutes at Exeter because it is a 'premier' service! :roll:

The fullipin train will be waiting time at stations for about 5 minutes before it gets any where it could affect the timekeeping of another train.

Now they have retimed them so they leave Exeter earlier making it impossible to transfer from the Cross Country to platform 1 in time, the 0826 now leaves at 0823 (and waits at Honiton for 4 minutes) just to make sure everyone misses it!

Now that is Customer service, not!

 

[LowLevel]

If you as a member of staff run, fall over, hurt yourself and the train is cancelled, you'll be hung out to dry! When I was dispatching I'd hold trains transferred from one island to the other until everyone was over (within reason) - if the signaller failed to tell us about the change we'd generally bounce it off on them anyway. If people missed platform alterations due to wearing earphones etc then it was their fault - it's not an unknown phenomenon for information to go out over the PA. I had a woman miss two trains on the bounce during disruption due to earphones, despite me warning her the first time to turn them down or take them out. She started shouting and swearing at me for not coming and finding her personally, quite viciously, so I slung her off the station and she didn't go at all!

 

[Chrisgr31]

Just had an announcement, by the customer focused guard, James on a train leaving East Croydon "Sorry for the latte departure from East Croydon, this was caused by a late platform alteration and a need to wait for thee passengers to make the change."

 

[A-driver]

Sorry for the latte departure from East Croydon,

Was that in an espresso train or a stopper?

 

[bigdelboy]

Now that is Customer service, not!

- There seems to be little incentive for the railways to provide good connections.
- They may be more incentivised to ensure a scheduled connection does not occur rather than provide a connection which may be missed on occasions leading to delay repayments.

- Guildford can be quite exciting for last minute platform alterations ... there is usually enough time given. As annoying however can be missed connections by late inbound trains ..... (Redhill probably are the worst here .... a Reigate shuttle will be departed 30s early to ensure a late running connecting train does not connect!).

 

[island]

Equally bad is not advising the platform at all until the last moment, and sometimes so late that those who have been waiting for information miss it. I hear that Marylebone has developed a reputation for this, to the extent of trains actually departing empty with everyone still waiting on the concourse - of course, they are chalked up in the official statistics as 'right time'.

Quite a hike from the concourse at Marylebone to some of the platforms.

 

[Amy Worrall]

In such a situation where a platform alteration is not announced, if you were a visitor to the area, as in somebody who wouldn't recognise the train as it pulled in, and didn't follow the crowds of people on the platform as they rushed to another one, had an advance ticket for that train (or the train was the last one that went to the station you wanted) - what would happen? You would have missed the train you needed to catch, through no fault of your own, so theoretically the TOC would have to make arrangements for you to continue your journey, but actually would they, or would they make up excuses to avoid it (or blame Network Rail)?

I missed a train due to a platform change at New Street once (no announcement, as far as I could tell, and by the time I saw it on the screens it was too late). The staff endorsed the ticket to allow me to travel on a later one. Still annoying to have missed it (it was the start of a long journey to Penzance), but it would have been much worse if I'd also had to buy a new ticket.

 

[Tomnick]

I wonder how much of the problem is down to the removal of manual announcers and the reliance instead on automated systems? A dedicated announcer, often sitting in the signal box, is more likely to become aware of a change to the plan in good time, whereas an automated system usually won't pick it up until it's too late (and a manual announcement or override requires the platform staff to firstly be told about the change and then find time to sort it out in between their other duties).

 

[stut]

Ah yes, the Finsbury Park Shuffle. It's calmed down recently, but there was a spate of it happening on a far too regular basis. Half a 365-load squeezing through one set of barriers (bonus points if they're too slow to set them open), down some narrow steps, and doing the same again on platform 5 (extra bonus points if they leave them shut, and they all fail on passback). It's all very undignified.

 

[A-driver]

Ah yes, the Finsbury Park Shuffle. It's calmed down recently, but there was a spate of it happening on a far too regular basis. Half a 365-load squeezing through one set of barriers (bonus points if they're too slow to set them open), down some narrow steps, and doing the same again on platform 5 (extra bonus points if they leave them shut, and they all fail on passback). It's all very undignified.

It's a nightmare at the moment in the morning peak since the half finished works were 'completed'! All passengers changing from mainliners to moorgates have to use the subway rather than the old fashioned cross platform interchange (apparently it's called progress)!

In the first week they were advertising all Moorgate trains from plat 1 and all kings x trains from 2. They didn't even have platform alterations, the kings x train just appeared on 4. Staff were holding all trains until everyone was onboard to make a point but the entire up side 'improvements' are an embarrassment at the moment. The plan was all kings x trains on 2 and moorgates on 1 but the signals arnt set up for that and so it's currently not practicle to do and won't be for some time!

 

[Muzer]

I wonder how much of the problem is down to the removal of manual announcers and the reliance instead on automated systems? A dedicated announcer, often sitting in the signal box, is more likely to become aware of a change to the plan in good time, whereas an automated system usually won't pick it up until it's too late (and a manual announcement or override requires the platform staff to firstly be told about the change and then find time to sort it out in between their other duties).

Automated announcement systems are fine - as far as I know, there's no reason they all shouldn't be able to be made to announce platform alterations the first any person decides to make one (when a route is set into the modified platform, or (as does happen at many stations) even earlier - at Basingstoke, for example, the signaller/whoever seems to have the ability to tell the system of a platform alteration, as one for a delayed terminating service that was originally going to run around into a different platform but was instead going to run out of the same platform it came in due to its delay was displayed on the information screens over half an hour before its arrival, certainly before it had a route set). The problem, as far as I understand it, is that the railway's systems and data sources are rather messy and not amazingly well-integrated (which comes with messing around with the structure of the country's railways just as computers are really taking off in a big way), so the announcement systems aren't always programmed to use this data, or else it's not available to the people who need it.