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Wagon fleet news and discussion

Adrian Barr

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
797
Location
Doncaster
4L73 is routed via Cambridge and the WAML, so needs FLA

That's an interesting route, I hadn't noticed that! I assume that routing makes it easier to get a path through London in the evening peak.

I can't think of any other regular container traffic that's been routed through Cambridge in recent years, apart from a feeder service several years back that used to run between Ipswich to Tilbury via Bury St Edmunds in the days of Freightliner Class 57s.
 
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Adrian Barr

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
797
Location
Doncaster
There was an interesting 6Z96 Freightliner working from WH Davis at Shirebrook to Earles Sidings on Friday, which included 4 new MWA conversions. I think these are the first box wagons converted from HHA wagons under the latest project mentioned in post #39:

...the movement of 16 HHA coal hoppers from York to Shirebrook on December 9th, likely in connection with this Freightliner project to convert coal wagons into aggregate box wagons: https://www.freightliner.co.uk/news/wagon-fleet-re-purposing-project/.
This is not a new idea - Freightliner already used components from HHAs as the basis of their MWA wagons back in 2016.
09/12/24 4D66 08:56 York Yard South to Shirebrook, 66502 + 16 HHAs
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/54192127937/ (Photo: Wilbert B)

The 6Z96 working also conveyed 4 relatively new JNA-Z box wagons. These 4 had originally left Shirebrook as part of a movement of 10 new JNA-Z wagons to Barrow Hill as a 6N63 on 03/10/24, seen here behind 66788: https://www.flickr.com/photos/49068127@N06/54042361665/ (Photo: Gavin B)

4 of those JNAs then returned to Shirebrook on a 4D66 on 16th June before emerging again on 6Z96 on Friday with the MWAs:

6Z96 16:40 Shirebrook - Earles Sidings 27/06/25
Loco 66601
7059328671 JNA
7059328622 JNA
7059328630 JNA
7059328655 JNA
7058917045 MWA
7058917037 MWA
7058917029 MWA
7058917011 MWA

6Z96 is seen at Sheffield: https://www.flickr.com/photos/192731604@N04/54622195325/ (Photo: David Hill)

The 10 JNAs which originally left Shirebrook on 3rd October had been in temporary storage at Barrow Hill along with another 25 new unbranded JNA wagons which had arrived from Shirebrook on 21/08/24 as a 6A25 behind 37218: https://www.flickr.com/photos/47843_vulcan/53938079071/ (Photo: Rob Reedman)

The 31 JNAs remaining at Barrow Hill moved as a 4M68 10:45 Barrow Hill - Dowlow on Saturday (28th June). Freightliner are taking over the Breedon contract for Dowlow trains from this weekend, and the first working of these new JNA wagons built at Shirebrook should be 6M09 to Walsall in the early hours of Monday morning (returning as 4M82).

Details for JNA-Z 7059328671:

817059328671 JNAZ JN074A OL:046FT/13.970M IL:12.688M OW:2.708M IW:2.416M
DW:00.000M HT:0.000M
CP: DSGN 079.1T ACTL 079.1T CU:60.0 TARE: DSGN 22.500T ACTL 22.500T
44BSU MS 75MPH RA1 VBF00 ABF13 BKEFCE CHG: 00.000T SPDCHG: 22.600T
GROSS DATA: GLW101.600T MS 60MPH RA0 VBF00 ABF50 BUILT: 24 CCS00
COUPLING DETAILS: TYPE: S STRENGTH:C ( 56.000T) AXLES: 4.0 NO. UNITS: 1
*BRAKE DISTRIBUTOR DATA NOT AVAILABLE* REG.DTLS: SBDBHH DBHH
CURRENT DATA:- 22.500T MS 75 RA1 VBF 0.000 ABF 13.869

Details for MWA-C 7058917011

817058917011 MWAC MW003A OL:046FT/13.970M IL:12.690M OW:2.765M IW:2.438M
DW:00.000M HT:0.000M
CP: DSGN 077.4T ACTL 077.4T CU:60.0 TARE: DSGN 24.200T ACTL 24.200T
47BSU MS 75MPH RA1 VBF00 ABF14 BKEFCE CHG: 00.000T SPDCHG: 24.300T
GROSS DATA: GLW101.600T MS 60MPH RA0 VBF00 ABF44 BUILT: 25 CCS00
COUPLING DETAILS: TYPE: D STRENGTH:C ( 56.000T) AXLES: 4.0 NO. UNITS: 1
*BRAKE DISTRIBUTOR DATA NOT AVAILABLE* REG.DTLS: SBDBHH DBHH
CURRENT DATA:- 24.200T MS 75 RA1 VBF 0.000 ABF 14.151

There were also some JNA-Z wagons built at Shirebrook which went into use with Direct Rail services on the Shap to Drigg trains.

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[Note: the automerge function is extremely unwelcome in cases where unrelated posts are being made several days apart]

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NEW POST 05/07/25

Wagon Review of the year 2024

Continued from post #44...

===============
JRA bogie box wagons
===============


In this latest thrilling instalment of the 2024 wagon review I continue my look at bogie box wagons - this time the JRA fleet. It delves a little further back than 2024, and extends into 2025, to provide context and bring the situation up to date.

100 JRA wagons (number series 70.6790.000 to 70.6790.099) were built in France in 1988/1989, originally coded PIA. There have only been 5 scrapped since then, although some are now in store and a few moved to France. There's a bit more historical info on them in the caption to this photo by Adrian Nicholls: https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/54376140649/
Gallery of photos from Paul Bartlett here: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferrytiphookaggregatebox

At the beginning of 2024 there were 20 JRAs allocated to aggregates traffic from Cliffe, but the other 75 were based at Acton for use on the spoil trains from London for FCC Environment, conveying waste soil from construction projects. During 2024 this was moved from loading points at Bow, Cricklewood, Neasden, and Ripple Lane to Peterborough (since replaced by Forders Sidings), Tinsley and Burton. Once unloaded, the spoil is transported onward by lorry to fill holes created by old quarry or opencast mine workings. The wagons are owned and hired out by Touax (they were previously owned by Tiphook) and have been used on various aggregate and scrap flows over the years, with occasional periods out of use when "off hire."

The composition of the FCC spoil sets over the past few years has been rather interesting (at least to me - I can't guarantee it will be a popular topic of conversation down the pub or on a first date). In many cases this was the final use of some of the older wagons before storage or scrapping (or in the case of some of the KEAs, their conversion to slab wagons).

This look at the use of JRAs on these spoil workings starts back at the beginning of 2022, when 25 JRA wagons were in temporary store at Wembley Yard, for use on the first Cricklewood to Peterborough spoil working. As a further digression, the previous movements of these 25 wagons are worth recording, with the information taken from a "wagon history" report on 7067900940 from early 2022 while it was at Wembley (these kind of reports show the last 40 or so TOPS "events," which depending on the wagon might show you two weeks or two years of history!).

7067900940 came out of Cardiff Canton's Pullman Rail workshop (after maintenance or overhaul) as a 6Z56 to Acton Lane sidings, Willesden on 06/07/20. It was in a 6Z21 spoil train from Willesden DCR sidings to Chaddesden on 06/10/20, with the formation noted in the DCR thread as "56106 + 25 older spoil wagons." This particular wagon was added to a rake of JNAs used on a DCR spoil working (6Z62) from Worksop to Rossington on 05/12/20. After returning empty to Chaddesden it was moved to Gascoigne Wood as a 6Z60 on 13/01/21 (presumably as the full rake of 25 JRAs). These then emerged from Gascoigne Wood on 13/05/21, being forwarded from Milford to Peak Forest as 6M96 on 21/05/21. They only worked one loaded train out of Peak (6E89 to Peterborough on 23/05/21, forward as 6L99 to Ripple Lane next day). They returned empty to Milford as 6M95 on 25/05/21, emerging on a 6Z86 move to Didcot on 28/10/21. Later that day they went forward to Wembley Yard as a 6Z70. As noted above, these JRA wagons remained at Wembley until they were used on the first Cricklewood - Peterborough FCC spoil working on 11th February 2022.

66148 at Milford with the 25 JRAs which have arrived as 6M95 from Gascoigne Wood on 13/05/21
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dbs60100/51177238628/ (Photo: DBS 60100)

The notes below give a general idea of the convoluted changes to the composition of FCC spoil sets from 2022 onwards, as older wagons (with the exception of the JRAs) gradually give way to newer types. A snapshot is given for a number of different dates, with the overall number of JRAs in the sets at the top, and composition of the sets in use (by wagon type) beneath. The actual wagon pools obviously contain more wagons than are formed in the sets at any particular time, with some wagons being spares and others out of traffic for maintenance or waiting repair.

Composition of FCC sets, 2022 to 2025:

June 2022 - 4 sets: (39 JRA)
  • Set of 20 JRAs
  • Mixed set (20 wagons) of 17 KEA, JNAs 3162 3168, JXA 3146
  • Mixed set (18 wagons) of 14 JRA, 4 JNA-B
  • Mixed set (24 wagons) of 7 JNA-A, 5 JRA, 12 JNA-B
Sep 2022 - 4 sets: (42 JRA)
  • Mixed set (21 wagons) of 6 KEA, 11 JNA-A, JNA 3166, JXA 3144, 1 JRA, JNA-B 9825
  • Mixed set (18 wagons) of 11 KEA, JNAs 3162 3168, JXA 3146, 3 JRA, JNA-B 9833
  • Set of 20 JRAs (Tinsley)
  • Set of 18 JRAs (Tinsley)
Feb 2023 - 4 sets: (42 JRA)
  • Mixed set (18 wagons) of 9 KEA, 6 JNA-A, 1 JRA, JXAs 3144 3145
  • Mixed set (19 wagons) of 8 KEA, 7 JNA-A, JNA 3168, JXA 3146, 2 JRA
  • Set of 18 JRAs
  • Set of 21 JRAs
By this time the JNA-Bs (TIPH 98xx series) had been removed from the sets, to be replaced by 15 assorted wagons from the former DB Newhaven incinerator ash set, which moved from Wembley to Acton as 6D83 on 29/08/22.

Aug 2023 - 4 sets (36 JRA)
  • Mixed set (17 wagons) of 9 KEA, 4 JNA-A, JXA 3146, JNAs 3162 3166 3168
  • Mixed set (17 wagons) of 11 KEA, 4 JNA-A, JXA 3144, 1 JRA
  • Mixed set (22 wagons) of 13 JRA, 9 JNA-A
  • Set of 22 JRAs
The numbers of JRAs on the FCC workings were boosted after the Tees Dock to Newbiggin gypsum workings switched from using JRAs to MEAs during mid-2023, with the displaced JRAs finding their way into FCC sets from August onwards.

Dec 2023 - 4 sets (60 JRA)
  • Mixed set of 15 JRA, 2 JNA-A
  • Set of 22 JRA
  • Set of 22 JRA
  • Mixed set (18 wagons) of 14 KEA, 2 JNA-A, JXA 3144, 1 JRA
The JNA-As and KEAs, along with the JXAs and JNA-Ns 3162 / 3166 / 3168, were taken out of traffic by the end of 2023.
A mixed rake of 33 wagons (10 KEA, 17 JNA-A, 3 JNA-N 3162 / 3166 / 3168, JXAs JNA-G 3259) moved as 6Z32 09:52 Acton - Wembley on 05/12/23.
Another rake of 14 wagons (11 KEAs, 2 JNA-As and JXA 3144) moved as 6Z32 10:00 Acton - Wembley on 29/12/23
A replacement set of modern JNA-T wagons replaced the final mixed set of KEA / JNA-A / JXA wagons, with JRAs making up the rest of the spoil fleet.

At the beginning of 2024, there were 3 sets of 20 JRAs each, plus the set of 20 JNA-T.

A 5th set formed of MBA wagons was introduced in February 2024, for a new spoil flow from Cricklewood to Burton. These MBA wagons had previously been used on Rossington - Roxby spoil trains or the Ward scrap services (mainly Barking to Immingham). Both the Rossington spoil and the Ward scrap had ceased running by this time.

The MBAs remained in use on spoil traffic until the end of June 2024, when the set was taken out of traffic and stored at Peterborough. A second set of JNA-T wagons (previously used on Tytherington aggregate workings for HS2) was introduced to replace them on FCC services in July 2024. Eight of the MBAs stored at Peterborough were moved to Milford as a 6Z26 on 07/04/25. Six of the remaining eight MBAs at Peterborough moved to Toton as a 6G15 on 21/05/25 behind 66070, before moving onward to Rotherham as a 6E23 on 23/05/25 with 66088. Here they were attached as empties to the rear of 6V81 scrap train to Cardiff Tidal. Two of those MBAs were briefly put back into traffic on scrap traffic based at Cardiff, but all six ended up stored at Cardiff Tidal. The final two MBAs at Peterborough moved to Toton as 6G15 on 24/06/25 behind 66047 and remained there.

An unusual movement of JRAs occurred on 27/09/24, when 66121 took 11 wagons (previously in these FCC spoil sets) as 6B71 19:37 Wembley Yard to Dollands Moor. They put their international number series to good use, disappeared into France and have not been seen since!

A set of MMAs (red DB bogie box wagons, previously used on Dowlow stone workings) replaced one of the JRA sets in November 2024. The MMAs had moved from Toton to Wembley as 6O11 on 28/10/24.

Nov 2024 - 5 sets (35 JRA)
  • Set of 20 JNA-T wagons
  • Another set of 20 JNA-T wagons
  • Set of 20 MMAs
  • Set of 20 JRAs
  • Set of 15 JRAs
The set of 15 JRAs moved as 6M01 21:10 Peterborough to Wembley Yard on 10th November for storage, but these were in turn replaced by a different set of 20 JRA wagons, which I think had been collected together from spares and wagons off repair.

Dec 2024 - 5 sets (40 JRA)
  • Set of 20 JNA-T wagons
  • Another set of 20 JNA-T wagons
  • Set of 20 MMAs
  • Set of 20 JRAs
  • Another set of 20 JRAs
As of February 2025, another of the JRA sets had been taken out of traffic, leaving 4 sets in total on spoil traffic. The remaining JRA set was used on the Neasden to Forders circuit (with Forders Sidings having replacing Peterborough as a destination for the spoil, alongside Tinsley and Burton). Since then the second JRA set has returned to use, replacing one of the sets of JNA-Ts.

Apr 2025 - 4 sets (42 JRA)
  • Set of 22 JRA
  • Set of 20 JRA
  • Set of 17 MMA + 5 JNA-T
  • Set of 20 JNA-T
As mentioned above, 15 JRA wagons were moved to Wembley on 10/11/24. 14 of these departed Wembley on 17/02/25 as a 6M63 to Warrington Arpley. 11 of these JRAs were then sent to Fiddlers Ferry for storage on 24/02/25 as a 6Z01 (the reason for leaving 3 at Arpley will become clear below).

Jul 2025 - 4 sets (36 JRA)
  • Set of 20 JRA (used on Neasden / Thorney Mill to Forders flow)
  • Set of 16 JRA + 6 JNA-T
  • Set of 17 MMA + 5 JNA-T
  • Set of 21 JNA-T
Current loading points for the FCC spoil are Neasden, Cricklewood, Bow, with trains recently also loading at Thorney Mill roughly once a week. Regular spoil loading at Ripple Lane (H Group sidings) ceased in November 2023, and the remaining stockpile of spoil at Ripple Lane was finally cleared in 2024 with the last train running on 17/10/24. Main flows are currently Neasden / Thorney Mill to Forders, Cricklewood to Burton, and Neasden / Bow to Tinsley. Workings usually run to, from, or via Acton.

With the recent displacement of DB Cargo MMA wagons from the Dowlow aggregate workings (as the contract changed to Freightliner) it remains to be seen whether some of those will filter into the FCC spoil traffic to displace the JRAs hired from Touax.

===================
JRAs on aggregate workings
===================


In addition to their use on the FCC spoil workings, another set of JRA wagons began 2024 in use on sea-dredged aggregate workings from Cliffe (in North Kent near Hoo Junction) for Brett Aggregates. This set was frequently seen on 6M95 to Neasden and similar workings. After replacement by a set of the now ubiquitous JNA-T wagons, an interesting working occurred on 29/03/24 when 18 of the JRAs of the former Cliffe set were taken from Hither Green Down Sidings (Bramdean) to Tees Yard as 6Z54 by 66190.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/199980337@N04/53619729096/ (Photo: Charlie Everton)

17 of the wagons went forward as 6Z66 to North Blyth for storage, with 66035 & 66175 top & tailing on 23/04/24. The 18th wagon was retained for use on FCC spoil traffic, before escaping to France at the end of September on the 6B71 mentioned above. The 6Z66 move is seen here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/billwelsh/53673790734/ (Photo: Bill Welsh)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23119954@N07/53672172267/ (Photo: Stephen Lewins)

After ten months of storage, the 17 JRA wagons at North Blyth emerged on 25/02/25, taken to Warrington Arpley by 66727 as 6M79. Here, 3 additional JRAs were picked which had arrived from Wembley on the 17/02/25 on the 6M63 move mentioned earlier.

66727 is seen passing Freemans level crossing shortly after departure with 6M79 North Blyth - Warrington Arpley:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/194976767@N06/54395251864/ (Photo: ASM Railway Photography)

And later passing Hexham with the JRAs:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/146067212@N02/54355658832/ (Photo: A Transport of Delight)

The combined 20 JRAs departed Warrington later the same day as 6Z80 to Peterborough, then on to March Yard as a 6G80 the following morning (26/02/25). The JRAs returned from March to Peterborough as 6E99 on 11/03/25, and went forward to Bardon Hill as a 6M53 the following morning. They were loaded for Crawley, departing as 6O54 on 13/03/25. Now based at Tonbridge, these JRAs worked more Bardon - Crawley trains (6Z54 26th March and 3rd April, and 6O54 9th April) and as of July 2025 are still dedicated to this weekly flow.

66750 and JRAs are seen on the 6Y29 empty movement from Crawley to Tonbridge on 04/04/25:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/143144535@N05/54430906274/ (Photo: Felix Thorogood)
Most of the wagons in this train had previously been extended in height for scrap traffic, with the 5th wagon in the train in as-built condition.

This is not their first use of this wagon type on Bardon traffic; the 1990 Metro book listing "International Ferry Wagons" mentions 22 of them being on hire to Bardon Hill Quarries.

***

My next post will look at the JNA-B (TIPH 98xx) and JNA-S (GERS 44xx) wagons, after which I plan to round up the 2024 wagon review with a general mix of wagon moves that caught my attention. By then it will be 2026 at this rate...
 
Last edited:

Oxfordblues

Member
Joined
22 Dec 2013
Messages
1,128
I note a large number of Warflats and Warwells in store in the reception sidings at Bicester MoD. They've been there for a number of years, presumably as a strategic reserve. I wonder if yesterday's announcement of a significant increase in defence spending might mean their reinstatement?
Passing Bicester MoD Receptions yesterday I noted that the Warflats and Warwells stored there for several years had "disappeared". I wonder if they have (1) been moved into the MoD site for further storage, (2) been taken away for further use or (3) been scrapped on-site or within the depot. I wonder if anyone on here has insider knowledge?
 

Phil Scott

Member
Joined
21 Aug 2017
Messages
222
I saw KWA 95509 and KFA 95238 at Darley Dale on the Peak Rail a few days ago. I think at least the KWA was previously at Bicester.
 

Adrian Barr

Member
Joined
2 Jul 2020
Messages
797
Location
Doncaster
Passing Bicester MoD Receptions yesterday I noted that the Warflats and Warwells stored there for several years had "disappeared".

I don't know anything about those Warflats and Warwells specifically, but a couple of the internal user vans from Bicester were spotted on the M40 in June, so perhaps they had a general clear-out of stored wagons?

The most recent photo I've seen of a warwell or warflat moving by rail was this movement of 4 empty Warflats from Kineton to Ludgershall in October 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_head/50488940072/ (Photo: Alan Head)

There were various Warflats and Warwells stored at Ludgershall in addition to Bicester. These wagons are visible on Google Maps imagery, but a comparison with these pictures taken in May this year suggests that some have been removed that would otherwise have been visible in the sidings:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90265707@N03/54565539781/ (Photo: MJM Photography)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90265707@N03/54565869285/ (Photo: MJM Photography)

For comparison, these photos were taken in 2022:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinfoulger/52220600251/ (Photo: Foulger Rail Photos)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinfoulger/52219606527/ (Photo: Foulger Rail Photos)

The most recent picture I've seen of any of these wagons loaded is this one from 2020, with a couple of loaded Warflats from Ludgershall heading to Dereham:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/65580215@N02/49627120708/ (Photo: John Rudd)
Another longer working of MoD vehicles had run a couple of days before: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpb2011/49617360566/ (Photo: Robert Brooks)

Also of interest in those pictures is the use of IFA intermodal twins fitted with vehicle decks, like the ones in use on car traffic. Those could be a potential replacement option for the lighter vehicles carried on Warflats.

I wonder if the other fleet of KWA well wagons (designed to carry bulldozers to engineering worksites) will ever make it's way onto military traffic? The carrying capacity is lower (18 tons compared to 50 tons for a Warwell) but that's adequate for many APCs, and anything heavier would probably struggle to fit within the loading gauge in any case. The vehicles seen on Warwells on this movement from Elgin in 2019 look fairly lightweight: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexanderjohnson1212/48538451082/ (Photo: A J Transport)

There were 30 KWAs built for Network Rail use, but in recent years they seemed to spend all their time languishing at Hoo Junction, with sightings of their intended use being extremely rare.
VTG 95613 is seen loaded with a dozer at Hoo Junction in 2012: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevestrains/8210533383/ (Photo: Steve's Trains)

This fleet is now in storage. All 30 were at Gascoigne Wood, but 22 of them moved to Selby Potter Group sidings in October 2024 behind 37901:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/197671115@N03/54128218338/ (Photo: J B)

Three more KWAs have escaped from Gascoigne Wood. VTG 95623 and VTG 95624 were moved by HST power cars 43467 / 43423 as a 6Z26 to Tyseley on 22nd May:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/121100974@N07/54546247156/ (Photo: 87027)

VTG 95624 was left at Tyseley, while VTG 95623 was hauled to Bletchley as a 6B27:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/54537795304/ (Photo: robmcrorie)

VTG 95633 was also moved to Bletchley behind 20007 & 20205 on July 10th:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/181919693@N06/54659506675/ (Photo: John Catterson)

I'm not sure of the reason for those moves - perhaps to move heavy items of equipment / machinery around the depots at Tyseley and Bletchley, if they still have something to shunt them with?
 

DBS92042

Established Member
Joined
13 Apr 2019
Messages
1,800
I don't know anything about those Warflats and Warwells specifically, but a couple of the internal user vans from Bicester were spotted on the M40 in June, so perhaps they had a general clear-out of stored wagons?

The most recent photo I've seen of a warwell or warflat moving by rail was this movement of 4 empty Warflats from Kineton to Ludgershall in October 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_head/50488940072/ (Photo: Alan Head)

There were various Warflats and Warwells stored at Ludgershall in addition to Bicester. These wagons are visible on Google Maps imagery, but a comparison with these pictures taken in May this year suggests that some have been removed that would otherwise have been visible in the sidings:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90265707@N03/54565539781/ (Photo: MJM Photography)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90265707@N03/54565869285/ (Photo: MJM Photography)

For comparison, these photos were taken in 2022:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinfoulger/52220600251/ (Photo: Foulger Rail Photos)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinfoulger/52219606527/ (Photo: Foulger Rail Photos)

The most recent picture I've seen of any of these wagons loaded is this one from 2020, with a couple of loaded Warflats from Ludgershall heading to Dereham:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/65580215@N02/49627120708/ (Photo: John Rudd)
Another longer working of MoD vehicles had run a couple of days before: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpb2011/49617360566/ (Photo: Robert Brooks)

Also of interest in those pictures is the use of IFA intermodal twins fitted with vehicle decks, like the ones in use on car traffic. Those could be a potential replacement option for the lighter vehicles carried on Warflats.

I wonder if the other fleet of KWA well wagons (designed to carry bulldozers to engineering worksites) will ever make it's way onto military traffic? The carrying capacity is lower (18 tons compared to 50 tons for a Warwell) but that's adequate for many APCs, and anything heavier would probably struggle to fit within the loading gauge in any case. The vehicles seen on Warwells on this movement from Elgin in 2019 look fairly lightweight: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexanderjohnson1212/48538451082/ (Photo: A J Transport)

There were 30 KWAs built for Network Rail use, but in recent years they seemed to spend all their time languishing at Hoo Junction, with sightings of their intended use being extremely rare.
VTG 95613 is seen loaded with a dozer at Hoo Junction in 2012: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevestrains/8210533383/ (Photo: Steve's Trains)

This fleet is now in storage. All 30 were at Gascoigne Wood, but 22 of them moved to Selby Potter Group sidings in October 2024 behind 37901:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/197671115@N03/54128218338/ (Photo: J B)

Three more KWAs have escaped from Gascoigne Wood. VTG 95623 and VTG 95624 were moved by HST power cars 43467 / 43423 as a 6Z26 to Tyseley on 22nd May:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/121100974@N07/54546247156/ (Photo: 87027)

VTG 95624 was left at Tyseley, while VTG 95623 was hauled to Bletchley as a 6B27:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/54537795304/ (Photo: robmcrorie)

VTG 95633 was also moved to Bletchley behind 20007 & 20205 on July 10th:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/181919693@N06/54659506675/ (Photo: John Catterson)

I'm not sure of the reason for those moves - perhaps to move heavy items of equipment / machinery around the depots at Tyseley and Bletchley, if they still have something to shunt them with?
Regarding the KWAs at Bletchley, the plan was for them to be used to move construction materials from Bletchley TMD to the carriage sidings (the TMD being the nearest/most convenient point with road access). IIRC it's something to do with the building of tanking facilities in Bletchley C.S. but I'm unsure if they've been used yet
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
10,642
Location
Hampshire
Quick Wagon related question, do we know who bought the former TFL / Metronet FEA-B’s that were up for Auction earlier this year (640931 and 640939-943). I believe all that were sold have now left Eastleigh Works.

Thanks!
 

The Loads Insp

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Passing Bicester MoD Receptions yesterday I noted that the Warflats and Warwells stored there for several years had "disappeared". I wonder if they have (1) been moved into the MoD site for further storage, (2) been taken away for further use or (3) been scrapped on-site or within the depot. I wonder if anyone on here has insider knowledge?
All but 6 Warflats and Warwells have been scrapped
 

JKF

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Thought those could have been shipped off to Ukraine, they have some standard gauge lines!
 

DBS92042

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66155 has moved 10 Mendip Rail HOA hoppers from Westbury to Alexandra Dock Jnc today on 6V00. Are these wagons are for storage similar to the ones at Exeter Riverside?
 

DBS92042

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Indeed it is. x10 HOA for storage at Fiddlers Ferry power station
Interesting, thank you. I guess the reported downturn in Mendip traffic is the reason for their storage. Do you know if anymore are to follow?

Just for the record, the consist of 6V00 was:
66155 +
7067740214
7067740222
7067740271
7067740297
7067740032
7067740321
7067740248
7067740172
7067740131
7067740313
 

Rhysdabeast

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Interesting, thank you. I guess the reported downturn in Mendip traffic is the reason for their storage. Do you know if anymore are to follow?

Just for the record, the consist of 6V00 was:
66155 +
7067740214
7067740222
7067740271
7067740297
7067740032
7067740321
7067740248
7067740172
7067740131
7067740313
Can confirm as well for the record that 6M60 Alexandra Dock - Arpley was the same rake but in reverse order and with FOA's 7049081455 and 7049080895 on the rear. There is a 6Z70 Arpley - Fiddlers Ferry scheduled for today so I assume that's what they will work next, plenty of 706955 HYA's in there already.
 

Oxfordblues

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Curious schedule for 6Z70 today: running-round at Latchford twice! In fact it must have, after the Ditton run-round, propelled into Fiddlers Ferry.
 

j37401

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Curious schedule for 6Z70 today: running-round at Latchford twice! In fact it must have, after the Ditton run-round, propelled into Fiddlers Ferry.

correct it did back in. i think the schedule won’t allow it to be put in that way as the same thing happened earlier in the year.
 

Rhysdabeast

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The first 18 new JPA wagons built by Feldbinder in Germany arrived yesterday morning. These are for Breedon and Heidelberg Materials. The wagons were moved from Dollands Moor to Wembley as 6M60 hauled by 66694, they then went onwards to Crewe Basford Hall as 6M51 hauled by 66540:
7093160866
7093160858
7093160833
7093160783
7093160767
7093160775
7093160718
7093160742
7093160734
7093160726
7093160841
7093160759
7093160825
7093160809
7093160874
7093160791
7093160882
7093160817

From the ORR Authorisation Letter the number range for these new wagons is from 7093160718 to 7093161591 and also listed are 2 TOPS codes, JPA-G and JPA-H, unfortunately nowhere in the document does it state which number range corresponds to which TOPS code, if anyone knows this info it would be very much appreciated!
 

Rhinojerry

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I don't know anything about those Warflats and Warwells specifically, but a couple of the internal user vans from Bicester were spotted on the M40 in June, so perhaps they had a general clear-out of stored wagons?

The most recent photo I've seen of a warwell or warflat moving by rail was this movement of 4 empty Warflats from Kineton to Ludgershall in October 2020:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alan_head/50488940072/ (Photo: Alan Head)

There were various Warflats and Warwells stored at Ludgershall in addition to Bicester. These wagons are visible on Google Maps imagery, but a comparison with these pictures taken in May this year suggests that some have been removed that would otherwise have been visible in the sidings:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90265707@N03/54565539781/ (Photo: MJM Photography)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/90265707@N03/54565869285/ (Photo: MJM Photography)

For comparison, these photos were taken in 2022:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinfoulger/52220600251/ (Photo: Foulger Rail Photos)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinfoulger/52219606527/ (Photo: Foulger Rail Photos)

The most recent picture I've seen of any of these wagons loaded is this one from 2020, with a couple of loaded Warflats from Ludgershall heading to Dereham:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/65580215@N02/49627120708/ (Photo: John Rudd)
Another longer working of MoD vehicles had run a couple of days before: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpb2011/49617360566/ (Photo: Robert Brooks)

Also of interest in those pictures is the use of IFA intermodal twins fitted with vehicle decks, like the ones in use on car traffic. Those could be a potential replacement option for the lighter vehicles carried on Warflats.

I wonder if the other fleet of KWA well wagons (designed to carry bulldozers to engineering worksites) will ever make it's way onto military traffic? The carrying capacity is lower (18 tons compared to 50 tons for a Warwell) but that's adequate for many APCs, and anything heavier would probably struggle to fit within the loading gauge in any case. The vehicles seen on Warwells on this movement from Elgin in 2019 look fairly lightweight: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexanderjohnson1212/48538451082/ (Photo: A J Transport)

There were 30 KWAs built for Network Rail use, but in recent years they seemed to spend all their time languishing at Hoo Junction, with sightings of their intended use being extremely rare.
VTG 95613 is seen loaded with a dozer at Hoo Junction in 2012: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevestrains/8210533383/ (Photo: Steve's Trains)

This fleet is now in storage. All 30 were at Gascoigne Wood, but 22 of them moved to Selby Potter Group sidings in October 2024 behind 37901:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/197671115@N03/54128218338/ (Photo: J B)

Three more KWAs have escaped from Gascoigne Wood. VTG 95623 and VTG 95624 were moved by HST power cars 43467 / 43423 as a 6Z26 to Tyseley on 22nd May:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/121100974@N07/54546247156/ (Photo: 87027)

VTG 95624 was left at Tyseley, while VTG 95623 was hauled to Bletchley as a 6B27:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robmcrorie/54537795304/ (Photo: robmcrorie)

VTG 95633 was also moved to Bletchley behind 20007 & 20205 on July 10th:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/181919693@N06/54659506675/ (Photo: John Catterson)

I'm not sure of the reason for those moves - perhaps to move heavy items of equipment / machinery around the depots at Tyseley and Bletchley, if they still have something to shunt them with?
Hi,can you provide any details please for the following.Sunday nights empty car carrier to Dagenham had four what looked new double deck wagons.Are they new or recently overhauled.It was about 0100.Thank you.
 

Adrian Barr

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Sunday nights empty car carrier to Dagenham had four what looked new double deck wagons. Are they new or recently overhauled?

That must have been 6L38 Carlisle Kingmoor - Dagenham (Sun 11th Jan) with the wagons from Mossend which had arrived the day before as 6M35.

I don't know of any new double-deck car wagons in use with Groupe Cat (formerly STVA) in the UK, but the double-deck wagons which were refurbished mainly for the Toyota contract (Toton to Valenciennes in France and Kolin in Czech Republic) look quite different after they were refurbished. They were painted black and have new side screens in a different arrangement.

This is refurbished double deck wagon 8743750081 leaving Eastleigh Arlington in 2022: https://www.flickr.com/photos/sparrowhawk7/51881666586/ (Photo: David Hann)

And some more refurbished double-deck wagons en route from Donnington to Warrington Arpley in 2022: https://www.flickr.com/photos/153305438@N06/51804610322/ (Photo: TimboM)

At first glance they look quite different to the un-refurbished wagons, as seen here with 8743750263 on 6L48 in 2017: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dan700/35845020483/ (Photo: Dan Adkins)
 

Rhinojerry

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Hi,thanks for the reply,i have just checked the video i took of 6L38 and the four wagons are the same as those in the picture you have loaded at Eastleigh.Thank you.
 

Adrian Barr

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The first 18 new JPA wagons built by Feldbinder in Germany arrived yesterday morning. These are for Breedon and Heidelberg Materials. The wagons were moved from Dollands Moor to Wembley as 6M60 hauled by 66694, they then went onwards to Crewe Basford Hall as 6M51 hauled by 66540:

From the ORR Authorisation Letter the number range for these new wagons is from 7093160718 to 7093161591 and also listed are 2 TOPS codes, JPA-G and JPA-H, unfortunately nowhere in the document does it state which number range corresponds to which TOPS code, if anyone knows this info it would be very much appreciated!

Interesting. The wagons went forward to Earles Sidings as a 6H96 on Monday 12th Jan. Some of those 18 have since been out and about in revenue service, on 6L45 07:37 Earles Sdgs - Dagenham on 21/01 (returning as 6M93), and 6V91 22:58 Earles Sdgs - Theale (27/01) returning as 6M91.

On TOPS, it looks like 7093160718 to 7093161245 (first 54 wagons) are all coded JPA-C with design code JP009A.
7093161252 to 7093161591 (last 35 wagons) are coded JPA-D with design code JP010A.

In the list of carkinds within TOPS (which is not always accurate or up to date) the difference between JPA-C and JPA-D appears to be between mechanical and electrical operation of the discharge valves:

JPA C TANK,BOGIE,CEMNT MECH CPLG/DIS VALV CAP 81.7T GLW 101.6T
JPA D TANK,BOGIE,CEMNT ELEC CPLG/DIS VALV CAP 81.7T GLW 101.6T

In the existing fleet of 709316xxxx cement wagons, Heidelberg are using JPA-D wagons at Clitheroe and Penyffordd, while Breedon use JPA-C wagons at Hope.

With the first 18 JPA-C wagons going to Breedon at Hope, I suspect Breedon will get the 54 JPA-C wagons with the 35 JPA-D wagons going to Heidelberg to match the current fleets.

I'm not sure why the codes in TOPS don't match the ORR letter, but I remember something similar with the Network Rail Wascosa order, where the FEAs were expected to be FEA-W and then appeared as FEA-S in TOPS.

TOPS data for the first and last wagons in the order is identical apart from the JPA-C vs JPA-D difference and design code - presumably the year of build for 7093161591 will be updated when it's ready for delivery:

817093160718 JPAC JP009A OL:053FT/16.140M IL:00.000M OW:2.795M IW:0.000M
DW:00.000M HT:0.000M
CP: DSGN 081.4T ACTL 081.4T CU:78.0 TARE: DSGN 20.200T ACTL 20.200T
39BSU MS 75MPH RA1 VBF00 ABF14 BKEFCE CHG: 00.000T SPDCHG: 82.000T
GROSS DATA: GLW101.600T MS 60MPH RA0 VBF00 ABF47 BUILT: 25 CCS00
COUPLING DETAILS: TYPE: D STRENGTH:C ( 56.000T) AXLES: 4.0 NO. UNITS: 1
*BRAKE DISTRIBUTOR DATA NOT AVAILABLE* REG.DTLS: 80VTG


817093161591 JPAD JP010A OL:053FT/16.140M IL:00.000M OW:2.795M IW:0.000M
DW:00.000M HT:0.000M
CP: DSGN 081.4T ACTL 081.4T CU:78.0 TARE: DSGN 20.200T ACTL 20.200T
39BSU MS 75MPH RA1 VBF00 ABF14 BKEFCE CHG: 00.000T SPDCHG: 82.000T
GROSS DATA: GLW101.600T MS 60MPH RA0 VBF00 ABF47 BUILT: 00 CCS00
COUPLING DETAILS: TYPE: D STRENGTH:C ( 56.000T) AXLES: 4.0 NO. UNITS: 1
*BRAKE DISTRIBUTOR DATA NOT AVAILABLE* REG.DTLS: 80VTG
 

Rhysdabeast

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Interesting. The wagons went forward to Earles Sidings as a 6H96 on Monday 12th Jan. Some of those 18 have since been out and about in revenue service, on 6L45 07:37 Earles Sdgs - Dagenham on 21/01 (returning as 6M93), and 6V91 22:58 Earles Sdgs - Theale (27/01) returning as 6M91.

On TOPS, it looks like 7093160718 to 7093161245 (first 54 wagons) are all coded JPA-C with design code JP009A.
7093161252 to 7093161591 (last 35 wagons) are coded JPA-D with design code JP010A.

In the list of carkinds within TOPS (which is not always accurate or up to date) the difference between JPA-C and JPA-D appears to be between mechanical and electrical operation of the discharge valves:

JPA C TANK,BOGIE,CEMNT MECH CPLG/DIS VALV CAP 81.7T GLW 101.6T
JPA D TANK,BOGIE,CEMNT ELEC CPLG/DIS VALV CAP 81.7T GLW 101.6T

In the existing fleet of 709316xxxx cement wagons, Heidelberg are using JPA-D wagons at Clitheroe and Penyffordd, while Breedon use JPA-C wagons at Hope.

With the first 18 JPA-C wagons going to Breedon at Hope, I suspect Breedon will get the 54 JPA-C wagons with the 35 JPA-D wagons going to Heidelberg to match the current fleets.

I'm not sure why the codes in TOPS don't match the ORR letter, but I remember something similar with the Network Rail Wascosa order, where the FEAs were expected to be FEA-W and then appeared as FEA-S in TOPS.

TOPS data for the first and last wagons in the order is identical apart from the JPA-C vs JPA-D difference and design code - presumably the year of build for 7093161591 will be updated when it's ready for delivery:

817093160718 JPAC JP009A OL:053FT/16.140M IL:00.000M OW:2.795M IW:0.000M
DW:00.000M HT:0.000M
CP: DSGN 081.4T ACTL 081.4T CU:78.0 TARE: DSGN 20.200T ACTL 20.200T
39BSU MS 75MPH RA1 VBF00 ABF14 BKEFCE CHG: 00.000T SPDCHG: 82.000T
GROSS DATA: GLW101.600T MS 60MPH RA0 VBF00 ABF47 BUILT: 25 CCS00
COUPLING DETAILS: TYPE: D STRENGTH:C ( 56.000T) AXLES: 4.0 NO. UNITS: 1
*BRAKE DISTRIBUTOR DATA NOT AVAILABLE* REG.DTLS: 80VTG


817093161591 JPAD JP010A OL:053FT/16.140M IL:00.000M OW:2.795M IW:0.000M
DW:00.000M HT:0.000M
CP: DSGN 081.4T ACTL 081.4T CU:78.0 TARE: DSGN 20.200T ACTL 20.200T
39BSU MS 75MPH RA1 VBF00 ABF14 BKEFCE CHG: 00.000T SPDCHG: 82.000T
GROSS DATA: GLW101.600T MS 60MPH RA0 VBF00 ABF47 BUILT: 00 CCS00
COUPLING DETAILS: TYPE: D STRENGTH:C ( 56.000T) AXLES: 4.0 NO. UNITS: 1
*BRAKE DISTRIBUTOR DATA NOT AVAILABLE* REG.DTLS: 80VTG
Hi Adrian, thanks for the detailed reply as always, appreciate the time taken to get the info off TOPS.
 

eastwestdivide

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To add to the cement story, just noticed a string of PCAs in Holgate(?) sidings S of York, including the pleasingly-numbered 11111, a former regular on flows from Hope. Imagine these are now stored/surplus with the arrival of new bogie wagons.
 

Adrian Barr

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To add to the cement story, just noticed a string of PCAs in Holgate(?) sidings S of York, including the pleasingly-numbered 11111, a former regular on flows from Hope. Imagine these are now stored/surplus with the arrival of new bogie wagons.

Looking in TOPS, BCC 11111 arrived at York as part of a rake of 36 wagons which had previously been on the Earles - Dewsbury circuit. After the Christmas break, this wagon worked 6E91 Earles to Dewsbury and 6M89 return on 6th January. On 8th January it worked 6Z65 Earles - Dewsbury (loaded cement) but the return empties ran on 9th Jan as a 6G89 Dewsbury - York Holgate.

On 14th Jan, the Dewsbury working 6E91 / 6M89 was formed of Lafarge-branded JPA bogie wagons (VTG 124xx) which had previously been used on the Theale and Dagenham workings. The 6M89 empties are seen passing Swinton in this video by Donny Pete (at 3:50) behind 70010:

What a week Gricing. And a sad sight down Donny Decoy

The Walsall train is (for now) the one remaining working using the 2-axle PCAs from Earles Sidings, with Friday evening's (30/01/26) 6H61 17:47 Walsall - Earles empties featuring 70006, 70014 and 37 PCAs. This was the return working of 6G65 09:21 Earles Sdgs - Walsall.

The brand new JPA wagons discussed in posts #80 and #84 can be seen in this video uploaded by VTG, with some views of the wagons at Hope cement works. If you watch to the end (it's a couple of minutes of the usual corporate waffle, although the "iwagon" monitoring system they talk about is interesting) there's a good drone shot with two class 20s visible.

VTG delivers FIRST new build iWagons for Breedon

***

In the first video I linked (from Donny Pete) another working of interest at the start of the video is a 6D66 Hunslet Yard - Shirebrook movement of 10 HHA wagons for the MWA conversion programme, on 13th Jan hauled by 66529.

These HHAs had been stored in South Wales, with their last loaded workings being from Cwmbargoed to Port Talbot Grange Sidings (with coal for the steelworks) and a Portbury - Aberthaw working.
After long-term storage at East Usk, they eventually moved to Crewe Basford Hall as 6M36 on 22/12/25, continuing to Hunslet Yard on 6E53 the same day.
 

Tram203

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Unsure if worthy of note or not - last week I noticed a selection of relatively elderly "flat" wagons in the consist of a GBRF intermodal train passing Peterborough.

These were from the 600000-600024 batch, which I haven't seen in intermodal consists for several years.

Separately a question; would anyone be able to advise if any wagons from the FLA (606101-606180), FTA (607001-607140) or FSA 608001-608560) batches are long term stored, or scrapped?

I still need a handful of these for confirmed sightings, and would be interested to know if there is any chance of seeing them in service or not.
 

DBS92042

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Unsure if worthy of note or not - last week I noticed a selection of relatively elderly "flat" wagons in the consist of a GBRF intermodal train passing Peterborough.

These were from the 600000-600024 batch, which I haven't seen in intermodal consists for several years.

Separately a question; would anyone be able to advise if any wagons from the FLA (606101-606180), FTA (607001-607140) or FSA 608001-608560) batches are long term stored, or scrapped?

I still need a handful of these for confirmed sightings, and would be interested to know if there is any chance of seeing them in service or not.
There are a number of FSA/FTA (and I think a couple of FLAs as well) that have been stored for 2/3 years at Bristol Freightliner Terminal. As such I would imagine there are probably others around the country too
 
Last edited:

Jr_Vandalas

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last week I noticed a selection of relatively elderly "flat" wagons in the consist of a GBRF intermodal train passing Peterborough.

These were from the 600000-600024 batch, which I haven't seen in intermodal consists for several years.
These would be the FBA wagons, which were previously used for the HS2 Tunnel Panels between West Ruislip and Grain, however I am unsure if this flow still runs. If the run has since ceased, GBRf are probably just taking the chance to put these on intermodals since they still have the capability to carry containers and are just lying around without much else work to do. I do remember seeing a few of these at Peterborough myself last year, so I would imagine they are using it to allow more containers to be loaded?
 

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