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WAG Express

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anthony263

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i dont know why they needed the 2nd wag, if they wanted a 2nd services it should have gone Cardiff - Holyhead & return.

I wouldnt mind a loco hauled service to holyhead in the morning, would certainly make it easier to have a day trip to north wales
 
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jones_bangor

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i dont know why they needed the 2nd wag, if they wanted a 2nd services it should have gone Cardiff - Holyhead & return.

I wouldnt mind a loco hauled service to holyhead in the morning, would certainly make it easier to have a day trip to north wales

It's a good point -I would suggest a early morning North South, a similar South North and maybe departures from Cardiff at 1615 as now and maybe 1745ish?

But then again, I'd like to see all the North South's brought up to InterCity standard.......
 

anthony263

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I though about a 06:20 Cardiff- Holyhead (Arr 10:55) and something like a 17:35 Holyhead - Cardiff (Arr 22:10)
 

merlodlliw

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Where is this timetable available for consultation? A quick google didn't help. Are the Fishguard services in it? If so, I'd like a look to see what has been changed since the Fishguard timetable consultation.

I hope WAG pulls out the funding for WAG2 now that it won't be 67 hauled and either makes a new contract to get some other form of LHCS on the service or suspends the service altogether until LHCS (or extra 158s to make the 175s available for the service, rather than 150-stituting the franchise commitment regional express services) can be found.

I will look it up, the consultation was sent out on disc to all County Councils,Rugs & areas such as Taith in North Wales.
The consultation timetable is not in the public domain, but it should be,other tocs Con timetables are in the public domain.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I will look it up, the consultation was sent out on disc to all County Councils,Rugs & areas such as Taith in North Wales.
The consultation timetable is not in the public domain, but it should be,other tocs Con timetables are in the public domain.

The disc is read only, & wont copy, the Fishguard timings are there, so ill do it manually for you later.

Bob
 
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TDK

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Seems like the 2nd WAG is staying as a 175 for a bit after december 2011, that said there area few people not happy considering the WAG is paying for it to be a loco hauled service.

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

If its going to take a while to get some MK3 carriage refubished couldnt we hire some off chiltern, if not the wrexham & shropshire ones why not the mix & match mk3 set.

Failing that sort out the rest of the MK2 carriages and use some of the stored virgin trains class 57's

Because Chiltern need them to run their mainline service that is a lot more important and productive than a jolly train for the WAG that is an OA run. AFAIK ATW are charging the WAG to hire the 175 from themselves, a good business plan I would say
 

merlodlliw

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I have taken the timings from ATW consultation timetable , here they are for Dec 2011/Dec2012. table 128 Monday to Friday

Up to
0150 Swansea
0653 Clarbeston Rd
0804 Manchester
0953 Carmarthen
1330 Cheltenham Spa
1900 Clarbeston Rd
2050 Carmarthen

Down from
0127 Swansea
0645 Carmarthen
0759 Clarbeston Rd
0947 Whitland
1326 Cardiff
1834 Cardiff
2030 Clarbeston Rd
 

Greenback

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I have taken the timings from ATW consultation timetable disc, here they are for Dec 2011/Dec2012. table 128

Up to
0150 Swansea
0653 Clarbeston Rd
0804 Manchester
0953 Carmarthen
1330 Cheltenham Spa
1900 Clarbeston Rd
2050 Carmarthen

Down from
0127 Sweansea
0645 Carmarthen
0759 Clarbeston Rd
0947 Whitland
1326 Cardiff
1834 Cardiff
2030 Clarbeston Rd

Thanks Bob, looks interesting. I am looking forward to a day out in Fishguard next year!
 

anthony263

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Thanks Bob, looks interesting. I am looking forward to a day out in Fishguard next year!

you have a very large gap in th afternoon especially since the 10:55 Cardiff - Fishguard service can some times arrive into fishguard hbr up to 20 minutes early. Last time i used it i was in fishguard at 13:06.

Glad to see there getting new trains and they do manage to get fishguard & goodwick station re-opened quickly and cheaply which should give a large increase in the number of passengers.

Lets hope this trial is a sucess so that the number of trains to fishguard is increased when more DMU's are available. That said once more dmu's become available i think a 5th or even 6th train on the heart of wales line should have a higher priority, providing the dmu's which do become availble are cleared to work teh heart of wales route.

I am planning to go to fishguard on the 1st day of the new service, i must admit it will be strange being on a train which terminates at claberston road.

Also shouldn't that 09:47 arrival from whitland be shown as coming from Cardiff/Swansea as i thought it would be worked by 1 of the class 153's which normally work on the 06:42 Cardiff - Pembroke Dock service?
 
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Greenback

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you have a very large gap in th afternoon especially since the 10:55 Cardiff - Fishguard service can some times arrive into fishguard hbr up to 20 minutes early. Last time i used it i was in fishguard at 13:06.

Glad to see there getting new trains and they do manage to get fishguard & goodwick station re-opened quickly and cheaply which should give a large increase in the number of passengers.

Lets hope this trial is a sucess so that the number of trains to fishguard is increased when more DMU's are available. That said once more dmu's become available i think a 5th or even 6th train on the heart of wales line should have a higher priority, providing the dmu's which do become availble are cleared to work teh heart of wales route.

I am planning to go to fishguard on the 1st day of the new service, i must admit it will be strange being on a train which terminates at claberston road.

Also shouldn't that 09:47 arrival from whitland be shown as coming from Cardiff/Swansea as i thought it would be worked by 1 of the class 153's which normally work on the 06:42 Cardiff - Pembroke Dock service?

I'll be doing my bit by popping down for the day! I've always thought that Fishguard is a pleasant place, with some nice pubs. Depending on the detail of the timetable it might be fun to change at Clarbeston Road - I think it happened quite a lot years ago.

I remember that there used to be an additional train from Fishguard in the early 1980's that left at around 0720. This only went to Clarbeston Road, after which it went down to Milford Haven to form a Swansea service. Passengers from Fishguard changed at Clarby for an earlier service to Swansea.
 

jones_bangor

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AFAIK ATW are charging the WAG to hire the 175 from themselves, a good business plan I would say

If this is the case, it's a disgrace and raises serious questions about the former Minister's grasp of his portfolio.
 

merlodlliw

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If this is the case, it's a disgrace and raises serious questions about the former Minister's grasp of his portfolio.

It is the case, I have raised this several times,ATW took the previous Minister to the cleaners, excellent business case for ATW to get away with, but I am convinced it breaks the ORR rules for open access.

ATW Hiring in a 175 franchise train from themselves for open access & charging WAG over £100K a month for it, is an immoral use of public money and franchise stock.

The current Minister is more street wise & wont be taken in so easily.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also shouldn't that 09:47 arrival from whitland be shown as coming from Cardiff/Swansea as i thought it would be worked by 1 of the class 153's which normally work on the 06:42 Cardiff - Pembroke Dock service?[/QUOTE]

Its train number 2E18.
Whitland 0907
Clunderwen 0914
Clarbeston Rd 0922
Fishguard 0947

It may well come from somewhere else, but only showing Whitland start
 

anthony263

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It is the case, I have raised this several times,ATW took the previous Minister to the cleaners, excellent business case for ATW to get away with, but I am convinced it breaks the ORR rules for open access.

ATW Hiring in a 175 franchise train from themselves for open access & charging WAG over £100K a month for it, is an immoral use of public money and franchise stock.

The current Minister is more street wise & wont be taken in so easily.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also shouldn't that 09:47 arrival from whitland be shown as coming from Cardiff/Swansea as i thought it would be worked by 1 of the class 153's which normally work on the 06:42 Cardiff - Pembroke Dock service?

Its train number 2E18.
Whitland 0907
Clunderwen 0914
Clarbeston Rd 0922
Fishguard 0947

It may well come from somewhere else, but only showing Whitland start[/QUOTE]

Yes it must split from the Pembroke Dock train at Whitland after it departs at 09:05
 

emoaconr

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ATW had to wait until I moved from South Wales didn't they...

Though a very welcome addition. It'll be strange for many with a return to changing at Clarbeston!
 

Rhydgaled

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I have taken the timings from ATW consultation timetable , here they are for Dec 2011/Dec2012. table 128 Monday to Friday

Up to
0150 Swansea
0653 Clarbeston Rd
0804 Manchester
0953 Carmarthen
1330 Cheltenham Spa
1900 Clarbeston Rd
2050 Carmarthen

Down from
0127 Swansea
0645 Carmarthen
0759 Clarbeston Rd
0947 Whitland
1326 Cardiff
1834 Cardiff
2030 Clarbeston Rd

Thanks.

Now, after changing my mind once I think I might have to change it back. Perhaps saving the building at Fishguard & Goodwick station should once again be my piority, not getting it open by September. The current boat train has had its dwell time at FGH reduced by 1 miniute, but I thought you need to allow 1min 30secs to 2min for a station stop, 30 seconds each way is not going to allow an extra stop is it? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm having a dilema with this building or station thing (ideally both, but the best (also not the cheapest though) way of opening the station by September probablly doesn't allow for that).

Also, somebody somewhere needs to be blacklisted or something. Assuming the miniscule changes in the timetable since the public consultation have not changed the diagraming (which I think I'd worked out), the unit that arrives from Cardiff at 18:34 then has to run the next morning's Pembroke Dock - Swansea (which currently is a Manchester train, but that will apparently move to Fishguard) and then has nothing to do all day. If I'm right, the 5hr+ gap could easily be plugged using that unit, and the 07:59 arrival from Clarbeston Road and probablly the 20:50 departure from Fishguard are really ECS workings and should not be counted among our promissed 5 extra trains between Fishguard and Carmarthen (ok, the evening service does go to Carmarthen, but is likely to be the least used Eastbound train and there are other trips just to Clarbeston Road, so discounting 1 trip each way of those proposed would only be fair). This, and the apparent lack of provision for an extra station to be opened in the timetable, point to the following possible conclusion: somebody somewhere wants to be rid of the Fishguard line. A failed trial service would be the perfect oppertunity to close it. In addition, Pembrokeshire County Council have commisioned a study into re-opening. A relativly small cost but at this time finding out their money was wasted because the timetable wouldn't allow trains to stop might at a push even turn them against the line.
 

merlodlliw

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Here are the Saturday only services. Table 128


Saturday only up (to)

1B39 0150 Swansea
2E07 0653 Clarbeston Rd
1W19 0804 Man Picc
2E19 0953 Carmarthen
1B97 1330 Cardiff
2E33 1900 Clarbeston Rd
2E35 2100 Carmarthen

Saturday only Down arrives

2E52 0127 ex Swansea 2345
2E06 0645 ex Carmathen 0550
2E08 0759 ex Clarbeston Rd 0734
1B55 0947 ex Cardiff 0642 (EF only) 2E18 ex Whitland 0907(AD&GHonly)
1B96 1315 ex Cardiff 1054
2B67 1834 ex Cardiff 1530
2E34 2055 ex Clarbeston Rd 2030 runs 25 minutes later on Saturdays.

One has to presume the 2B67 down train originates in Manchester.Also note the five hour gap between trains in the afternoon not good for tourists,change needed here,will someone tell the WAG Rail Division to wake up, bit like the WAGs lying idle in Cardiff for six hours.

On Sundays a good tourist day,as Leppard would say "No milk today"except for the 2 boat trains.

If anyone wants the train numbers for Mon to Fri, let me know.
 
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Rhydgaled

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Here are the Saturday only services. Table 128


Saturday only up (to)

1B39 0150 Swansea
2E07 0653 Clarbeston Rd
1W19 0804 Man Picc
2E19 0953 Carmarthen
1B97 1330 Cardiff
2E33 1900 Clarbeston Rd
2E35 2100 Carmarthen

Saturday only Down arrives

2E52 0127 ex Swansea 2345
2E06 0645 ex Carmathen 0550
2E08 0759 ex Clarbeston Rd 0734
1B55 0947 ex Cardiff 0642 (EF only) 2E18 ex Whitland 0907(AD&GHonly)
1B96 1315 ex Cardiff 1054
2B67 1834 ex Cardiff 1530
2E34 2055 ex Clarbeston Rd 2030 runs 25 minutes later on Saturdays.

One has to presume the 2B67 down train originates in Manchester.Also note the five hour gap between trains in the afternoon not good for tourists,change needed here,will someone tell the WAG Rail Division to wake up, bit like the WAGs lying idle in Cardiff for six hours.

On Sundays a good tourist day,as Leppard would say "No milk today"except for the 2 boat trains.

If anyone wants the train numbers for Mon to Fri, let me know.

Counting an ECS move from Clarbeston Road to Fishguard in the morning as one of the 5 trains a day from Fishguard to Carmarthen promissed is very unfair when it results in a 5hr+ gap in the daytime timetable. It isn't just tourists, when other family members want to head off to Aberystwyth for the day and I try to suggest going by bus a much smaller 2hr 35min gap in return journeys is somtimes used as an excuse to go by car. Numbers of passengers using the service on day trips from Fishguard to Carmarthen and to a lessor extent Swansea and Cardiff will be hit due to this gapeing hole I expect.

I thought the 15:30 from Cardiff was a retimed Swanline service, therefore orriginating in Cardiff and formed of a Sprinter, not a 175 like most Manchesters. Maybe its different on a Saturday? If it is a 175 from Manchester that would muck up my diagram estimates.

Sunday is a bad day for rail travel in South Wales, the Severn Tunnel has to be closed once a week (normally Sunday) doesn't it?

What's up with two different origin points for the 09:47 (1B55 0947 ex Cardiff 0642 (EF only) 2E18 ex Whitland 0907(AD&GHonly)), and what do 'EF only' and 'AD&GH' only mean?
 
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The Planner

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The letters are timetable periods, not sure why they appear. Period F is the Olympics.
 

Greenback

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One has to presume the 2B67 down train originates in Manchester.Also note the five hour gap between trains in the afternoon not good for tourists,change needed here,will someone tell the WAG Rail Division to wake up, bit like the WAGs lying idle in Cardiff for six hours.

On Sundays a good tourist day,as Leppard would say "No milk today"except for the 2 boat trains.

Maybe we are different, but we find that 1900 is a good time to return after a day out! Generally that means avoiding the busiest trains!

The long gap is not ideal, but I think it's better to have more outward trains from Fishguard in the morning. This allows Fishguard residents to have a trip to Cardiff, go shopping in Carmarthen, or connect into longer distance journeys.

Counting an ECS move from Clarbeston Road to Fishguard in the morning as one of the 5 trains a day from Fishguard to Carmarthen promissed is very unfair when it results in a 5hr+ gap in the daytime timetable. It isn't just tourists, when other family members want to head off to Aberystwyth for the day and I try to suggest going by bus a much smaller 2hr 35min gap in return journeys is somtimes used as an excuse to go by car. Numbers of passengers using the service on day trips from Fishguard to Carmarthen and to a lessor extent Swansea and Cardiff will be hit due to this gapeing hole I expect.

I'm not so sure. I agree that a an early or mid afternoon departure from Carmarthen would be useful, I can't really see any connection with the Clarbeston Road service. Perhaps you would be kind enough to elaborate?

The letters are timetable periods, not sure why they appear. Period F is the Olympics.

Thanks for the explanation!
 

Rhydgaled

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Maybe we are different, but we find that 1900 is a good time to return after a day out! Generally that means avoiding the busiest trains!

The long gap is not ideal, but I think it's better to have more outward trains from Fishguard in the morning. This allows Fishguard residents to have a trip to Cardiff, go shopping in Carmarthen, or connect into longer distance journeys.
Agreed. If it was a choice between this or nothing, or perhaps even between this and the 2-hourly Carmarthen - Fishguard shuttle (something like 1st and last trains out of Fishguard at around 7:50am/pm with a roughly 2-hourly pattern between them) I had expected I'd take this instead (the 7:50 1st departure would prevent early arrivals in Swansea and Cardiff).


I'm not so sure. I agree that a an early or mid afternoon departure from Carmarthen would be useful, I can't really see any connection with the Clarbeston Road service. Perhaps you would be kind enough to elaborate?

The WAG anouncment was that Fishguard would get 5 extra trains between Fishguard & Carmarthen. That morning Clunderwen - Fishguard ECS move seems to have been counted as one of the 5 extra trains from Carmarthen to Fishguard, despite having no connection from Carmarthen. A much better use of this arrival out of our allocation of 5 would be to plug the 5hr gap and an outward working in the 5hr gap might be more benifital than the 21:00 Fishguard - Carmarthen.

There are two options to plug the 5hr gap without loosing the good aspects of the suggested timetable. The first is overnight stabling at Fishguard, meaning the 21:00 Fishguard - Carmarthen and 5:50 Carmarthen - Fishguard wouldn't run (saving one of the promissed 5 trains each way to plug the 5hr gap), with the staff driving (sharing a car they would probablly have a lower carbon footprint than the train which would be pretty much empty in that direction at that time) from Carmarthen instead.

The other option is to take it as 10 trains per day promissed, rather than 5 each way, and get them to accept that the 5:50 Carmarthen - Fishguard is an ECS move, as is the 0734 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard (which should not be counted anyway as it doesn't link with Carmarthen), and get these two trains discounted leaving two trains per day out of the promissed 10 to plug the 5hr gap. That does of course leave a stock issue, but if my diagram estimates are correct plugging the gap is a possibility.
 

merlodlliw

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Counting an ECS move from Clarbeston Road to Fishguard in the morning as one of the 5 trains a day from Fishguard to Carmarthen promissed is very unfair when it results in a 5hr+ gap in the daytime timetable. It isn't just tourists, when other family members want to head off to Aberystwyth for the day and I try to suggest going by bus a much smaller 2hr 35min gap in return journeys is somtimes used as an excuse to go by car. Numbers of passengers using the service on day trips from Fishguard to Carmarthen and to a lessor extent Swansea and Cardiff will be hit due to this gapeing hole I expect.

I thought the 15:30 from Cardiff was a retimed Swanline service, therefore orriginating in Cardiff and formed of a Sprinter, not a 175 like most Manchesters. Maybe its different on a Saturday? If it is a 175 from Manchester that would muck up my diagram estimates.

Sunday is a bad day for rail travel in South Wales, the Severn Tunnel has to be closed once a week (normally Sunday) doesn't it?

What's up with two different origin points for the 09:47 (1B55 0947 ex Cardiff 0642 (EF only) 2E18 ex Whitland 0907(AD&GHonly)), and what do 'EF only' and 'AD&GH' only mean?

Ill check where the 1530 starts from via the other timetables Man to CDF,I just presumed it was Manchester.,but then I should never presume,,will also check the codification EF/AD/GH presuming its times of year,but with ATW & WAG one should never try & think as a normal person

Bob
 
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Greenback

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I have taken the timings from ATW consultation timetable , here they are for Dec 2011/Dec2012. table 128 Monday to Friday

Up to
0150 Swansea
0653 Clarbeston Rd
0804 Manchester
0953 Carmarthen
1330 Cheltenham Spa
1900 Clarbeston Rd
2050 Carmarthen

Down from
0127 Swansea
0645 Carmarthen
0759 Clarbeston Rd
0947 Whitland
1326 Cardiff
1834 Cardiff
2030 Clarbeston Rd

Agreed. If it was a choice between this or nothing, or perhaps even between this and the 2-hourly Carmarthen - Fishguard shuttle (something like 1st and last trains out of Fishguard at around 7:50am/pm with a roughly 2-hourly pattern between them) I had expected I'd take this instead (the 7:50 1st departure would prevent early arrivals in Swansea and Cardiff).

The WAG anouncment was that Fishguard would get 5 extra trains between Fishguard & Carmarthen. That morning Clunderwen - Fishguard ECS move seems to have been counted as one of the 5 extra trains from Carmarthen to Fishguard, despite having no connection from Carmarthen. A much better use of this arrival out of our allocation of 5 would be to plug the 5hr gap and an outward working in the 5hr gap might be more benifital than the 21:00 Fishguard - Carmarthen.

There are two options to plug the 5hr gap without loosing the good aspects of the suggested timetable. The first is overnight stabling at Fishguard, meaning the 21:00 Fishguard - Carmarthen and 5:50 Carmarthen - Fishguard wouldn't run (saving one of the promissed 5 trains each way to plug the 5hr gap), with the staff driving (sharing a car they would probablly have a lower carbon footprint than the train which would be pretty much empty in that direction at that time) from Carmarthen instead.

The other option is to take it as 10 trains per day promissed, rather than 5 each way, and get them to accept that the 5:50 Carmarthen - Fishguard is an ECS move, as is the 0734 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard (which should not be counted anyway as it doesn't link with Carmarthen), and get these two trains discounted leaving two trains per day out of the promissed 10 to plug the 5hr gap. That does of course leave a stock issue, but if my diagram estimates are correct plugging the gap is a possibility.

There will be no stabling in Fishguard Harbour. ATW will not be able to force their traincrew to drive cars between the depot and Fishguard for a start! There will be a lot of extra bureaucracy in order to make that work, and what if some traincrew don't have a car, or cannot drive?

The early trains to Pembroke Dock and Milford Haven are also pretty much ECS/positioning moves. Putting them in the public timetable does at least allow anyone who wants to catch them to do so. I don't see why the same shouldn't be the case at Fishguard! I would suggest that the couple of morning trains would be off ar more use to the residents of Fishguard and the surrounding area than an extra mid afternoon service.

As to five trains a day between Fishguard and Carmarthen, I'm not sure exactly what was said when the new service was announced. If it was five additional trains each way for Fishguard, then that is what has been delivered! (I am assuiming that the Clarby early service provides a connection into a Carmarthen service, but its difficult to be certain without access to the full proposals!)

I think that this is probably close to the best service that could be delivered within the constraints of train crew and stock diagramming. The timetable may be tweaked a little during the consultation period, and this is also a trial service that must be delivered within budget.
 

merlodlliw

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Ill check where the 1530 starts from via the other timetables Man to CDF,I just presumed it was Manchester.,but then I should never presume,,will also check the codification EF/AD/GH presuming its times of year,but with ATW & WAG one should never try & think as a normal person

Bob

The codes (taken as Sunday) AD 11th Dec 11 to 13th May 12
GH 16th Sept 12 to 2nd Dec 12

EF between the above.

BTW the 1530 appears to start at Cardiff,so you are correct Rhydgaled
 

Rhydgaled

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There will be no stabling in Fishguard Harbour. ATW will not be able to force their traincrew to drive cars between the depot and Fishguard for a start! There will be a lot of extra bureaucracy in order to make that work, and what if some traincrew don't have a car, or cannot drive?
Arriva buses use a company van (actually a rental I think) for driver changes around Aberystwyth, which is where I got the idea of staff driving from Carmarthen from. It'd probablly have to be a company car/van, and there is as you say the issue of ensuring either the driver or guard booked on the service can drive a car on the road. It is difficult, but as I say there is the alternative option of an extra service in the middle of the day without removing the current trains.

The early trains to Pembroke Dock and Milford Haven are also pretty much ECS/positioning moves. Putting them in the public timetable does at least allow anyone who wants to catch them to do so. I don't see why the same shouldn't be the case at Fishguard! I would suggest that the couple of morning trains would be off ar more use to the residents of Fishguard and the surrounding area than an extra mid afternoon service.
I agree that these ECS moves should be in the public timetable (unless removing them from is the only way of getting the 5hr gap plugged), you could only do away with them with stabing at Fishguard, which is difficult but not impossible. As I said earlier I'd probablly take the timetable as is over the shuttle option due to not being able to get early enough arrivals in Cardiff and Swansea otherwise. However if there is a unit sitting idle for most of the day as I think there is then it should be used for an additional Fishguard run to plug the gap.

The new departures from Fishguard all looked pretty good back in the consultation, though the last one is a little late. It is the first two trains into Fishguard (5:50 from Carmarthen and the connection-less run from Clarbeston Road) that add nothing to the usefullness of Fishguard's train service. I'm not sure how the funding works, but couldn't WAG pay ATW for 10 specified useful runs, with ATW left to put any money leftover after that and some of the money they gained from leasing a 175 from themselves into the two necessary but useless morning runs into Fishguard?

Of course if I am wrong about a unit being available to plug the gap then fair enough, what they've given us is probablly the best we can hope for. If that unit is available though then it should be used to give the Fishguard the best chance of a successful trail.
 

Greenback

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I don't know if there is a spare unit (and traincrew) available during the afternoon either. I don't think there is at the moment, it's very rare to see anything stabled at Swansea or Carmarthen, when there is it's normally awaiting attention or being used to strengthen particular services. As to train crew, the dark arts of diagramming are a bit of a mystery to me, and I am not familiar enough with the various rostering agreements that exist to even begin to guess whether we could squeeze another trip in without requring additional on train staff.

The first two train into Fishguard are pretty useless for journeys from Carmarthen and the east, but they are there for the reverse flow, allowing residents of the area to reach Cardiff before 0900, and connect for longer journeys. This is crucial to avoid the mistakes of the Whitby line, where the timings are pretty useless for most journeys beyond Middlesbrough. Similarly, the late train back exists to provide connections from further afield to Fishguard, rather than a useful service from Fishguard.

The stabling idea is a non starter. ATW would have to buy or lease a van/car for two journeys a day. Unless a third member of staff can be found to drive it down, back again and repeat the whole thing again at night. It just isn't going to happen!
 

merlodlliw

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I don't know if there is a spare unit (and traincrew) available during the afternoon either. I don't think there is at the moment, it's very rare to see anything stabled at Swansea or Carmarthen, when there is it's normally awaiting attention or being used to strengthen particular services. As to train crew, the dark arts of diagramming are a bit of a mystery to me, and I am not familiar enough with the various rostering agreements that exist to even begin to guess whether we could squeeze another trip in without requring additional on train staff.

The first two train into Fishguard are pretty useless for journeys from Carmarthen and the east, but they are there for the reverse flow, allowing residents of the area to reach Cardiff before 0900, and connect for longer journeys. This is crucial to avoid the mistakes of the Whitby line, where the timings are pretty useless for most journeys beyond Middlesbrough. Similarly, the late train back exists to provide connections from further afield to Fishguard, rather than a useful service from Fishguard.

The stabling idea is a non starter. ATW would have to buy or lease a van/car for two journeys a day. Unless a third member of staff can be found to drive it down, back again and repeat the whole thing again at night. It just isn't going to happen!

With stabling which as to be in a secure area,Fishguard is only staffed by Stena who also own the station, so it will have to be Carmarthen where there is 24 hour protection of stock, in my opinion. The only other option is taxi,which ATW use for staff between Chester & Wrexham,
An early train has to come from somewhere to start at Fishguard,up here in Gog land trains leave the garage at Chester for Manchester & Birmingham just after 0400.

Bob
 
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Greenback

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With stabling which as to be in a secure area,Fishguard is only staffed by Stena who also own the station, so it will have to be Carmarthen where there is 24 hour protection of stock, in my opinion. The only other option is taxi,which ATW use for staff between Chester & Wrexham,

Bob

I agree. Stabling at Fishguard is out of the equation.
 

merlodlliw

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I agree. Stabling at Fishguard is out of the equation.

Just thought, where would it stable at Fishguard, only one platform,in use in the middle of the night by the boat train.

Suppose it could double up, anyhow its not an option as you say. The five hour gap could well be a killer to the Countys thoughts of a new station,I am sure they wont be happy and will no doubt point this out,funders will shy away if they see this gap.

Bob
 

Rhydgaled

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Just thought, where would it stable at Fishguard, only one platform,in use in the middle of the night by the boat train.

Suppose it could double up, anyhow its not an option as you say. The five hour gap could well be a killer to the Countys thoughts of a new station,I am sure they wont be happy and will no doubt point this out,funders will shy away if they see this gap.

Bob
Both units could be in the platform, or the stabled unit could be parked on the bit beyond the platform or in the run-round loop. That particular issue is no problem. As Greenback says it is buying a road vehicle for staff (and that they'd probably have to take the token with them in the car to allow said night train) that is the hitch. Still should be cheaper than running an almost empty train (a 175 in the morning by the looks of things).

With stabling which as to be in a secure area,Fishguard is only staffed by Stena who also own the station, so it will have to be Carmarthen where there is 24 hour protection of stock, in my opinion. The only other option is taxi,which ATW use for staff between Chester & Wrexham,
An early train has to come from somewhere to start at Fishguard,up here in Gog land trains leave the garage at Chester for Manchester & Birmingham just after 0400.

Bob

My problem is not so much with running the positioning moves in itself, but that they have apparently taken up the promissed 5 services, leaving nothing for that pontential killer, the 5hr gap. See fishguardtrains.info/?p=100 for a Stena Line offer of overnight stabling at Fishguard and somebody else's explanation of the suituation.
 

merlodlliw

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Both units could be in the platform, or the stabled unit could be parked on the bit beyond the platform or in the run-round loop. That particular issue is no problem. As Greenback says it is buying a road vehicle for staff (and that they'd probably have to take the token with them in the car to allow said night train) that is the hitch. Still should be cheaper than running an almost empty train (a 175 in the morning by the looks of things).



My problem is not so much with running the positioning moves in itself, but that they have apparently taken up the promissed 5 services, leaving nothing for that pontential killer, the 5hr gap. See fishguardtrains.info/?p=100 for a Stena Line offer of overnight stabling at Fishguard and somebody else's explanation of the suituation.


ATW use a lot of taxis to move staff,as for the empty trains at dawn,thats part of the railway,however with the funding ATW are getting,if I were new Minister, the five hour gap would be sorted,I realise Ieuan Wyn Jones sprang this onto ATW for political reasons,so ATW/WAG staff tell me,but the five hour gap is in no ones interest, so I presume come next month the consultation times are what we are having, Sept to Dec.Also lets not forget ATW keep all the fares as well as the £million plus tax payers subsidy.I do think looking at the overall picture both ATW & WAG Rail Division have taken the easy option and need leaning on. My opinion of course
 
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Greenback

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I'm not sure that the long gap is going to be crucial to the success of the trial. I would prefer not to have such a gap, but at the same time I think that the traffic flow will be more long distance traffic than local. Yes, ther ewill eb some passnegers for Carmarthen, Swansea and other points in south west wales, but I think more will use the trains to get to Cardiff, Bristol, Birmingham, even Heathrow!
 
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