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WAG Express

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cymro inside

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I have been travelling to Cardiff by car recently as Bangor station is undergoing refurb and parking is a nightmare,otherwise there would be a report here on wag 2 loadings.as far as first class travel is concerned I have only ever seen my a.m. Alun FFred Jones using standard and that goes for Ann Jones and former a.m. Gareth Jones as well...once again it is misleading to talk of this 15 min gap in the service as you know only too well that it is 41 mins diff from Bangor and 50 mins from Rhyl.incidentally I can reach Cardiff in 4hrs and 5 mins from my house by car,the train has to compete on journey time or I may drive instead. As for through trains to Manchester the priority ought to be making the current service an express service and let dft finance a Northern all stops service from Chester to Manchester Victoria,that would solve overcrowding at a stroke and cut the journey time by 10 minutes.A service from Chester to Liverpool would now be difficult to justify via Runcorn when there are trains every 15 mins via Hooton.
 
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Squaddie

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I still find it strange that WAG2 leaves Holyhead just 15 minutes prior to the normal Cardiff service train...
Why on earth is that strange?

On railways throughout the country, and the world, express trains frequently leave just before slower, stopping trains; how else would you suggest a railway is run?
 

Gareth Marston

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As a regular business traveler to Cardiff for a decade now neither WAG funded Express has been of any use to me whatsoever. I live in the not inconsiderable middle bit between the Head of The Valleys road and North Wales Coastal strip. Neither WAG 1 or WAG 2 connect with the Cambrian.

I've only traveled once southbound on WAG1 as I fortuitously arranged a later meeting once and kicked around Shrewsbury for an hour waiting on it. Generally speaking WAG 1 arrives too late to get to meetings and for WAG2...its not for the day market. They may be of use if your staying overnight.
 

Squaddie

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As a regular business traveler to Cardiff for a decade now neither WAG funded Express has been of any use to me whatsoever. I live in the not inconsiderable middle bit between the Head of The Valleys road and North Wales Coastal strip. Neither WAG 1 or WAG 2 connect with the Cambrian.
Are you suggesting that only trains that benefit you personally should be permitted to run?
 

tbtc

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Are you suggesting that only trains that benefit you personally should be permitted to run?

I think Gareth makes a good point about the fact that central Wales has missed out in all the money thrown at the WAG Expresses (not even connecting with the Cambrian services).

For all the talk of how the WAG service is intended to "unite" Wales, its odd if they ignore the middle part.
 

merlodlliw

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Hereford would be a worthwhile stop (especially as the train crawls through anyway).

N.B. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the equivalent South - North is set up if the 67 LHCS model works out.

In this matter of time, who do you expect to fund more "Open Access Premier Service" non ATW franchise trains between South/North Wales,ATW will run them(others are not allowed to),but someone else has to bankrole them?

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have been travelling to Cardiff by car recently as Bangor station is undergoing refurb and parking is a nightmare,otherwise there would be a report here on wag 2 loadings.as far as first class travel is concerned I have only ever seen my a.m. Alun FFred Jones using standard and that goes for Ann Jones and former a.m. Gareth Jones as well...once again it is misleading to talk of this 15 min gap in the service as you know only too well that it is 41 mins diff from Bangor and 50 mins from Rhyl.incidentally I can reach Cardiff in 4hrs and 5 mins from my house by car,the train has to compete on journey time or I may drive instead. As for through trains to Manchester the priority ought to be making the current service an express service and let dft finance a Northern all stops service from Chester to Manchester Victoria,that would solve overcrowding at a stroke and cut the journey time by 10 minutes.A service from Chester to Liverpool would now be difficult to justify via Runcorn when there are trains every 15 mins via Hooton.

You always put up your comments,in a well thought out & explanatory way,
as for who travels in First, When the ex Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones did not fly to Cardiff or use the Ministerial car, he always travelled first class on "Gerald"
as a Minister he was allowed this perk,now its all backfired on him in the last elections, As for the Manchester to Chester trains something needs to be sorted urgent, my work takes me to Manchester frequent and the massive overcrowding from Piccadilly to Chester between 1630 & 1800 will have to be addressed to assist the large Numbers from North East Wales who work in the private sector in the North West & travel by train.

It is unfortunate politics did not allow extra services on the Cambrian between
Aberystwyth & Shrewsbury, or even make connections with the Up WAG 1, but Montgomery the big part,was never going to be Plaid so little importance
where an extra service should have been placed, in my opinion.

Bob
 
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jones_bangor

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It is unfortunate politics did not allow extra services on the Cambrian between Aberystwyth & Shrewsbury, or even make connections with the Up WAG 1, but Montgomery the big part,was never going to be Plaid so little importance where an extra service should have been placed, in my opinion.

Typically cynical again, without any justification. Seeing that Plaid controls Meirionnydd and Ceredigion (at WG level), you're talking nonsense there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think Gareth makes a good point about the fact that central Wales has missed out in all the money thrown at the WAG Expresses (not even connecting with the Cambrian services).

For all the talk of how the WAG service is intended to "unite" Wales, its odd if they ignore the middle part.

The best way to serve mid-Wales would be to have a dedicated 158 do a morning run and evening return (as per Gerald). The various possibilities around LHCS have been discussed at length, and shown to be a non-starter.
 

merlodlliw

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Typically cynical again, without any justification. Seeing that Plaid controls Meirionnydd and Ceredigion (at WG level), you're talking nonsense there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The best way to serve mid-Wales would be to have a dedicated 158 do a morning run and evening return (as per Gerald). The various possibilities around LHCS have been discussed at length, and shown to be a non-starter.

The hourly service was not going into Meirionnydd Stations in the proposal.

A morning & evening service from Mid Wales to where? surely not Cardiff.


Bob
 
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jones_bangor

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A morning & evening service from Mid Wales to where? surely not Cardiff.

Yep - Cardiff. All ATW would have to do is find a slot from Shrewsbury to Newport if they strengthened a morning Birmingham run with another 158. Could the Cardiff destined portion even join up with a North Wales / Chester / Manchester - Cardiff service?
 

merlodlliw

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Yep - Cardiff. All ATW would have to do is find a slot from Shrewsbury to Newport if they strengthened a morning Birmingham run with another 158. Could the Cardiff destined portion even join up with a North Wales / Chester / Manchester - Cardiff service?

Ill await Gareths response on your aspirations for yet more Cardiff services
this time from Mid Wales.


Bob
 

Gareth Marston

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I'm absolutely on the money here having done it for 10 years and observed with my own eyes and I work for an organisation whose higher functions are all in Cardiff- there is not sufficient demand for a through service from the Cambrian via Shrewsbury to Cardiff. The numbers are simply not there. The demand is far higher to Manchester and the North West of England than to South Wales. You only have to spend a day observing trains at Shrewsbury to realise this. Some of the original bids for the Wales and Border franchise suggested putting some through trains from Manchester to Aberystwyth back.

The connections to/from Cardiff are pretty good (apart from the WAG Express's) to the Cambrian. However Manchester is a different story with 45 minute waits on the way to Mid Wales. The biggest bug bear is the non existent connections to Wrexham and Chester.

SARPA has suggested if we do get and hourly service that the extra trains are combined with the current Crewe/Shrewsbury and Chester/Crewe shuttles to form a 2 hrly Chester to Aberystwyth service. Wem/Whitchurch/Nantwich would get through trains to Chester and Mid Wales better connections to the North West and London @ Crewe.
 

1V53

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There isn't a big flow from the Cambrian to Manchester and Liverpool. There's a flow, yes, but not significant.

The largest flows are to London and Birmingham, although with a cosmopolitan crowd (large numbers of students) it can be very mixed at times. I don't recall a particular demand for Cardiff and South Wales, Bristol and the west country more so.
 

craig87034

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A bit off topic but The WAG express is out today on
0808 Holyhead-Cardiff
1819 Cardiff-Holyhead
57313 one end and 57315 on the other
 

Rhydgaled

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A bit off topic but The WAG express is out today on
0808 Holyhead-Cardiff
1819 Cardiff-Holyhead
57313 one end and 57315 on the other

So running one of the normal Holyhead - Cardiff and return slow services? Am I right in thinking neither express service runs on Saturdays?
 

Sparky27

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The WAG express stock is used on Saturdays when an event is on in the Millenium Stadium. This is to have the 1819 Cardiff -Holyhead strengthened.
 

Greenback

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I suppose there was an event - of sorts - on today in the Millennium Stadium, which is why the LHCS was out and about...not that it was particularly busy there judging from the TV!
 

Rhydgaled

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The WAG express stock is used on Saturdays when an event is on in the Millenium Stadium. This is to have the 1819 Cardiff -Holyhead strengthened.

I suppose there was an event - of sorts - on today in the Millennium Stadium, which is why the LHCS was out and about...not that it was particularly busy there judging from the TV!

Oh yeah, didn't think of said event. My point/question was is the stock being used on a normal 'slow' service (ie. not an express one with more limited stops as this stock is normally used on, or (seeing as there was an event) a special train laid on for the occasion (ie. a departure at a time that wouldn't have been running last Saturday or next, assuming there wasn't / won't be an event then too)).
 

1V53

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It was an extra train, run specially for the rugby. No Bob I don't know who pays for it.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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I have seen loads of threads that quote WAG express, but I have not heard of it, where does it go from/too and who runs it?
 

TGVDUDE

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ATW use Class 57s from Virgin with Mark 2 stock and Mk3 buffet for a service from Holyhead arriving and departing Cardiff at 10:58 & 16:15 for the return, laying over at Canton during the day, pretty much it.
 

Greenback

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I have seen loads of threads that quote WAG express, but I have not heard of it, where does it go from/too and who runs it?

The Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) pay ATW to run the train. It misses out some of the usaul stops, such as Hereford (Express!).

You might also see it called Gerald!
 

merlodlliw

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It was an extra train, run specially for the rugby. No Bob I don't know who pays for it.

Not really bothered who pays for it on Saturday, Nice to see the stock in use
as opposed to it been left idle all weekend(well the premier dining Car was)

Seems to be used as a local getting the crowds back from the match, it never appears to be advertised as an up service to Cardiff by ATW, so few in North Wales know of its existence on past records, the previous run had six counted on board at Llandudno Junction according to North Wales Rail News pages.

I wonder why ATW dont advertise these one off services to encourage use, must be a reason


Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
ATW use Class 57s from Virgin with Mark 2 stock and Mk3 buffet for a service from Holyhead arriving and departing Cardiff at 10:58 & 16:15 for the return, laying over at Canton during the day, pretty much it.
Plus the 175 which also slumbers for six hours in Cardiff also paid for by WAG, this is known locally as WAG2.
and runs 0750 from Holyhead arriving Cardiff middle day. Both are run as open access Monday to Friday.
Bob
 
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anthony263

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Seems like the 2nd WAG is staying as a 175 for a bit after december 2011, that said there area few people not happy considering the WAG is paying for it to be a loco hauled service.

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

If its going to take a while to get some MK3 carriage refubished couldnt we hire some off chiltern, if not the wrexham & shropshire ones why not the mix & match mk3 set.

Failing that sort out the rest of the MK2 carriages and use some of the stored virgin trains class 57's
 

merlodlliw

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Seems like the 2nd WAG is staying as a 175 for a bit after december 2011, that said there area few people not happy considering the WAG is paying for it to be a loco hauled service.

I put this up on the infrastructure thread this morning, in case you easily missed it.

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm (What goes on with the WAGS)


Bob
 
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The Planner

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It isn't having the stock that is the issue, it is the fact it cannot keep the same path as a 175 and throws everything out of kilter.
 

Rhydgaled

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Seems like the 2nd WAG is staying as a 175 for a bit after december 2011, that said there area few people not happy considering the WAG is paying for it to be a loco hauled service.

I put this up on the infrastructure thread this morning, in case you easily missed it.

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm (What goes on with the WAGS)

Bob

nwRailNews said:
The December 2011 Arriva Trains Wales timetable has now been made available for consultation

Where is this timetable available for consultation? A quick google didn't help. Are the Fishguard services in it? If so, I'd like a look to see what has been changed since the Fishguard timetable consultation.

I hope WAG pulls out the funding for WAG2 now that it won't be 67 hauled and either makes a new contract to get some other form of LHCS on the service or suspends the service altogether until LHCS (or extra 158s to make the 175s available for the service, rather than 150-stituting the franchise commitment regional express services) can be found.
 
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