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WAG EXPRESS Mark 2 to be announced today

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merlodlliw

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I have seen advance copy to be announced today,that contrary to all discussions & representations, Ieuan Jones Minister for Wales Transport will announce today the commence of Wag Express mark 2, remarkably this train will run Holyhead,Junction Chester, Crewe, Shrewsbury and Hereford.

It will not call at any other North Wales Station, it is a 7 year deal with DB & its subsidaries

So the 67s will not run via Wrexham as expected. Permission is granted by ORR,NR etc.

The copy is embargoed to Monday, but was around on Sunday, so I will not inform of the cost to WAG, but it is £Ms.

I have to go out for the day now, you saw it first on RF.

M
 
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The Planner

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So is this different to the paths I put up ages ago ?? I cant find the original posts at the mo.
 

TDK

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So is this different to the paths I put up ages ago ?? I cant find the original posts at the mo.

As you well know planner there are paths via Wrexham but it isn't profitable to run the loco round at Chester
 

EltonRoad

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For my own interest, why isn't it profitable to run round at Chester? Is it the time delay? Or the staffing cost?
 

headshot119

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Can't see it only calling at Holyhead, Llandudno Junction and Chester, I would expect it to call at Bangor at least.
 

RichW1

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For my own interest, why isn't it profitable to run round at Chester? Is it the time delay? Or the staffing cost?

Yes, I always wondered this. I always thought railways had tracks, and these were used to pull coaches and sometimes they may need to run round to the other end of the train; how silly of me!
 

MCR247

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I don't think there are any day to day scheduled services that have a loco run around
 

TheWalrus

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The current 2 hrly Holyhead to Cardiff service via Wrexham will be gaining extra stops south of Shrewsbury to compensate for the speeding up of some Manchester to Cardiff services in May 11.
Sounds gd! like an idea ive had but couldnt make it work. how they doing it?
 
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I don't think there are any day to day scheduled services that have a loco run around

Unless you are just talking about the Wales Operations. The Fort William sleeper runs round everyday, all be it with a few shunting manouvers as well, but is all done with the one 67. I do miss large scale loco haulage, so much more interesting.
 
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I'm loving this comment:

"On what kind of research have they based this idea of not stopping in Denbighshire and Flintshire but stopping in Cheshire and Shropshire?"

Welsh nationalists never fail to stupefy me. Let's see... Chester, Crewe, Shrewsbury... major junctions (with lots of services to/from Wales, as well as London services) and much larger towns than anything in Denbighshire or Flintshire.
 

merlodlliw

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I'm loving this comment:

"On what kind of research have they based this idea of not stopping in Denbighshire and Flintshire but stopping in Cheshire and Shropshire?"

Welsh nationalists never fail to stupefy me. Let's see... Chester, Crewe, Shrewsbury... major junctions (with lots of services to/from Wales, as well as London services) and much larger towns than anything in Denbighshire or Flintshire.

I dont think tories & Libs are Nats, Now if Cheshire,Crewe & Nantwich,Salop & Hereford were paying for the train OK, do
 

175001

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Welsh nationalists never fail to stupefy me.
Haha I guess you can't read then............. Re-read that article and THEN tell me it was an MP for Plaid Cymru who said that. Give ne the exact point in the article that states that he/she is a Nationalish like myself.

Once again a naive comment from a next door neigbour!

Hwyl
 

tbtc

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You have to love the childish comments from the parochial Assembley members and the like!

I mean, look at this quote: "Local authorities across North Wales are urging WAG to modify the plans. They claim the train could also call at Rhyl, Flint, Wrexham and Abergavenny, omitting Crewe and Hereford". Fair enough, if it goes via Wrexham it can't go via Crewe, but why omit Hereford? Not only is Hereford a big place, with rail connections, but also the local station for a number of people living in Wales. The "lets go non-stop through England" idea is either farcial or petty, I can't be sure of which...

As for the idea that this would "leave half of North Wales high and dry" - are they serious? It wouldn't make anyone worse off than they were before, and the stations in North Wales currently have their best ever service to Cardiff (it was only one train a day before the WAG interfered). Seriously, some perspective wouldn't go amiss...
 

merlodlliw

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The whole idea is bathed in farce by this Plaid politician & Transport Minister in his last 4 months in power.

To have one political train running to Cardiff for the benefit of the few is bad enough, to have two political trains running two hours apart becomes crazy.
I note the promised statement has now been delayed, due to A.Ms queuing to seek a meeting with the Minister following the press disclosure.

Note later, only press release used by WAG.
 
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cymro inside

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passengers from the coast can still connect into it at Chester off the 0715 ex Holyhead,the whole idea of running non stop from LLandudno Junction to Chester is that it can get to Crewe Steel Works before the 0935 Chester to Euston gets to Beeston Castle,if it was going to be a unit instead of lhcs there would be sufficient time to call at rhyl and flint.in the 1980s there were 2 through trains a day to and from Cardiff,this idea that there was only ever one is erroneous, as for the May election it would be very difficult for Labour to get 31 seats in the senedd and it is quite likely that some form of coalition would be on the cards again,I cant see Labour getting into bed with the Libs or the Tories so there is every likelyhood that it will be same as it is now.I dont think Wrexham can complain , I remember when Mental trains ran only once every 2 hours and Worst North Festering ran 153s to Bidston(when they didnt turn round at Shotton), Wrexham has a damn good service these days. As for nationalists , arent English people Nationalists in the main?, that would explain why most of the time they call Britain England!
 

merlodlliw

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passengers from the coast can still connect into it at Chester off the 0715 ex Holyhead,the whole idea of running non stop from LLandudno Junction to Chester is that it can get to Crewe Steel Works before the 0935 Chester to Euston gets to Beeston Castle,if it was going to be a unit instead of lhcs there would be sufficient time to call at rhyl and flint.in the 1980s there were 2 through trains a day to and from Cardiff,this idea that there was only ever one is erroneous, as for the May election it would be very difficult for Labour to get 31 seats in the senedd and it is quite likely that some form of coalition would be on the cards again,I cant see Labour getting into bed with the Libs or the Tories so there is every likelyhood that it will be same as it is now.I dont think Wrexham can complain , I remember when Mental trains ran only once every 2 hours and Worst North Festering ran 153s to Bidston(when they didnt turn round at Shotton), Wrexham has a damn good service these days. As for nationalists , arent English people Nationalists in the main?, that would explain why most of the time they call Britain England!

I have been around the Railways for 50 years in North Wales, I do not recall two trains a day from Holyhead to Cardiff in the 80s, the 1800 or so Cardiff to Holyhead which I used(loco hauled Western Region stock), I do not recall another direct train,perhaps you can enlighten me.

As Charlie Hume sees it, printed with permission. http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

WAG Express Mk 2

A press release from the Welsh Assembly Government reads:

The express rail link between north and south Wales is to increase to two return services a day, the Deputy First Minister, Ieuan Wyn Jones announced today (Monday 17 January). Thanks to £3.5 million support from the Welsh Assembly Government, Arriva Trains Wales is developing plans to lease additional rolling stock to operate the extra services from Holyhead to Cardiff. By paying to lease the trains up-front for seven years, as opposed to an annual basis, the Assembly Government will save the taxpayer £350,000. Arriva Trains Wales have secured the timetable slots for the second service and they will now develop a procurement process to obtain the rolling stock. Once this process is complete, further announcements will be made on when the service is due to begin.

Mr Jones said: 'The North-South express rail link plays a vital role in not only linking north and south Wales but also rural and urban communities. With extra funding from the Welsh Assembly Government, plans will now be developed to increase the service and provide an alternative transport option to the car. This is part of our commitment to encourage sustainable transport and improve links between the north and south of the country. I'm delighted that not only are we planning to increase the frequency of this service – a route that has already been enjoyed by thousands of commuters, shoppers and tourists – but also secured a considerable saving to the taxpayer by being smarter in the way we negotiate our contracts.'

This story seems to raise more questions than it answers, but we understand that the plan is to run a second train from Holyhead later in the morning than the current very early start, with a later return from Cardiff than the current train. Odd, perhaps, as one might perhaps have expected a service for the denizens of the south to spend a day in the north. We are hearing talk of Class 67s as proposed haulage, and a controversial non-stop run between Llandudno Junction and Chester, but the actual information is not to hand. 'If this is an express service then I'm a kangaroo' says North Wales AM Eleanor Burnham in a surrealistic mood. 'People are having to travel to Bangor to catch these trains, which then stop at Chester, Crewe and Shrewsbury. It should avoid stopping in England rather than along the North Wales coast.'

We also cries from the Wrexham contingent, as the second train, like the first, is apparently to run via Crewe rather than reversing at Chester and serving Wrexham. Wrexham Council leader Aled Roberts explained to the press that the authority had campaigned for the present express to stop in the town. He added: 'Despite numerous requests for a timetable regarding the doubling of the track to Wrexham and the re-routing, in the meantime there has been no action by WAG. This announcement needs to be reversed – it is diabolical the people of Wrexham, Flintshire and Denbighshire are being treated in this way.'

Does anyone have the detailed timetable for this train? It would also be interesting to know how the fares collected for these WAG services are distributed. Do they go into the pot to reduce the public subsidy, or boost Arriva's profits?
 
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Greenback

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I'm all for improving rail services, but it seems daft to introduce a second morning train. I'd like to see a balancing working in the opposite direction instead.
 

Gareth Marston

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Sounds gd! like an idea ive had but couldnt make it work. how they doing it?

Same times Manchester to Crewe as now , then every 2 hrs one service will stop at Nantwich and Whitchurch then Shrewsbury, Craven Arms etc, the other will do Shrewsbury then Ludlow, Hereford and will take 20 mins less than the slower service. Similar sort of set up northbound with different time odd/even hours for departure from Cardiff. Some of the current DMU Holyhead to Cardiff trains will call additionally at Church Stretton, Craven Arms to plug gaps left by quicker Manchester's.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm all for improving rail services, but it seems daft to introduce a second morning train. I'd like to see a balancing working in the opposite direction instead.

We had 8 trains a day pre WAG and have 8 now. Whilst no news on re drawn National Transport Plan including redoubling line through Gowerton and hourly on Cambrian I discovered today that tenders for a £170 Million road scheme - dualling the A465 up the Clydach Gorge have been invited by WAG and submitted by construction companys.
 

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I think the WAG should address this by making a funding promise for doubling Chester-Wrexham and as soon as that route is doubled, the service will then indefinately run via that way.
 
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