WAG Express Issues.

[The Planner]

The restriction at Albrighton is either on the up & down line - but not both.
I'll check the Sectional Appendix when I'am next on duty.

Either way it makes for dragging anything with pantograph to & from Wolves tricky.

Wording from the Appendix is:

Prohibited over the down main line between Oxley and Cosford (Bridge 359 at 145m 65ch), but authorised over the up main line in both directions, under single line working arrangements for up main line for down direction movements. Restriction in the down direction of 20mph over bridge no. 415 between Wellington and Allscott GF at 163m 70ch.

 

[merlodlliw]

Sorry, don't know any of the Bobbys at Croes Newydd - different patch you see, they are North Western Patch based under Chester Signalling manager & we are Great Western based under the Salop SM. The boundry is between Gobowen North & Wrexham Croes Newydd North Fork.

sent you a pm

 

[dylan_w]

Didn't realise that, cheers.

May explain why it was withdrawn then, since Virgin obviously didn't have Voyagers back then.

I still don't really understand what proof there is to show that the Shropshire market is "lucrative" whereas the market north of Shrewsbury (which includes one more station in Shropshire that people seem to forget about) isn't.

If there was so much money to be made out of Shrewsbury surely one of the three Birmingham trains per hour could have been diagrammed as a Voyager to run through to Shrewsbury. There was not even a hint of this when they released their plans for the VHF timetable (before W/S came on the scene).

If there is some kind of fortune to be made for Virgin at Telford and Shrewsbury I'm sure they wouldn't have cancelled their recent plans (re. running via Coleshill and Sutton Park)

 

[The Signalman]

Wording from the Appendix is:

Prohibited over the down main line between Oxley and Cosford (Bridge 359 at 145m 65ch), but authorised over the up main line in both directions, under single line working arrangements for up main line for down direction movements. Restriction in the down direction of 20mph over bridge no. 415 between Wellington and Allscott GF at 163m 70ch.[/QU

That would be it - I checked the Appendix myself last night.

This would explain why electric drags from Wolves have'nt been common place in the past.

 

[43021HST]

Blonde women that like to shop a lot devolop air leaks I thought men only farted.

 

[merlodlliw]

Looks like Virgins 57s have pulled ATW out of the mire,no failure for a week or so, Oh to be a fly on the wall, when Ieuan Wyn Jones at last called in ATW Chiefs after the Shrewsbury Chaos on the up Wag Express.

 

[anthony263]

I can safetly say that i am expecting the wag express to be cancelled next year when the budget cuts come in, especially if they have already had to scrap the M4 toll road proposal.

 

[merlodlliw]

I can safetly say that i am expecting the wag express to be cancelled next year when the budget cuts come in, especially if they have already had to scrap the M4 toll road proposal.

Real people will agree with you, but are the Assembly and its Ministers living
in the real world,The Wag Express is the toy of Ieuan Wyn Jones,Deputy First Minister and the guy in charge of the Welsh Rail Franchise, it would appear
what ever ATW wants it gets, there is too cosy a relationship with WAG
officials and ATW, I am not saying they are in bed now, but they were 6 months ago, as we all know. But still Too cosy.
A bigger joke is ATWs 158s to London, but then Wag Express @ £7600 a day
taxpayers subsidy to run it, the jokes on us.

 

[The Planner]

I still fail to see the big deal with this, ATW didnt want to run the WAG express, they had little choice but to bid for it. As for the Marylebone runs, likely to start in May 2010 as Virgin arent likely to now object.

 

[Ferret]

A bigger joke is ATWs 158s to London, but then Wag Express @ £7600 a day
taxpayers subsidy to run it, the jokes on us.

Ah yes, but couldn't you use the same line when talking about the supposedly privatised railway as a whole?

 

[87015]

Ah yes, but couldn't you use the same line when talking about the supposedly privatised railway as a whole?

The man makes a good point...

 

[The Signalman]

The northbound WAG was very well loaded tonight on departure from Salop.
1st class was around half full.

Large amount of passengers alighted at Salop too.

 

[merlodlliw]

I still fail to see the big deal with this, ATW didnt want to run the WAG express, they had little choice but to bid for it. As for the Marylebone runs, likely to start in May 2010 as Virgin arent likely to now object.

Thanks for the infos signalman , but where does this idea ATW did not want to run the Wag Express come from, thats not what I heard or others.

 

[anthony263]

Thanks for the infos signalman , but where does this idea ATW did not want to run the Wag Express come from, thats not what I heard or others.

I believe Arriva had no choice but to run it due to some rules or somwthing which prevented Grand Union from operating the service, even though it was grand union that came up with the proposed paths for it and in my opinion the grand union bid was a lot better

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Arriva didn't want to run it at all, but like was said didn't have a lot of choice, and then there was talk of a 180 running it (quite logical with the similiarities with the 175 fleet) before we even got stuck with this 57 joke. Fortunately reliability has improved somewhat since it started but I'd still say its far from perfect. Read on the internal notices last night that 175 failures are steadily decreasing which is good news, and it anything the bulk of faults and failures in the control logs seems to be related to the pacer fleets if anything.

 

[merlodlliw]

Arriva didn't want to run it at all, but like was said didn't have a lot of choice, and then there was talk of a 180 running it (quite logical with the similiarities with the 175 fleet) before we even got stuck with this 57 joke. Fortunately reliability has improved somewhat since it started but I'd still say its far from perfect. Read on the internal notices last night that 175 failures are steadily decreasing which is good news, and it anything the bulk of faults and failures in the control logs seems to be related to the pacer fleets if anything.

Well you are on the ground, but one of your head ATW honchos A Mr Bagshaw was saying to us in North East Wales ATW could not wait
to run it( WAG EX), but then suppose thats management speak.

 

[anthony263]

Arriva didn't want to run it at all, but like was said didn't have a lot of choice, and then there was talk of a 180 running it (quite logical with the similiarities with the 175 fleet) before we even got stuck with this 57 joke. Fortunately reliability has improved somewhat since it started but I'd still say its far from perfect. Read on the internal notices last night that 175 failures are steadily decreasing which is good news, and it anything the bulk of faults and failures in the control logs seems to be related to the pacer fleets if anything.

Well the class 175s are lovely to travel on i regulary get 1 on the 06:52 Cardiff to Carmarthen, although i do like the class 158's

i think the class 175's have help to provide a much better quality of service on the milford haven - manchester route.

if anything the marks for the wag express would have been better off being used to provide extra capacity at peak times on the valley lines network

 

[merlodlliw]

Well the class 175s are lovely to travel on i regulary get 1 on the 06:52 Cardiff to Carmarthen, although i do like the class 158's

i think the class 175's have help to provide a much better quality of service on the milford haven - manchester route.

if anything the marks for the wag express would have been better off being used to provide extra capacity at peak times on the valley lines network

Well Tony you are the second person to like 158s, I hate them up here,ATW 158s are ,scruffy,smelly dirty w/cs. Besides the valleys, there is need for more capacity on the coast routes in North Wales, the population increases by a million June/July/Aug but the trains remain 2 coach 158s or 2 or 3 coach 175s winter or summer.

 

[The Planner]

You need to sort out the North Wales coast signalling first, thats what holds back a significant amount of capacity up there.

 

[Geezertronic]

Does the pair of ATW 158's that run from Birmingham International split during the journey to Wales?

 

[175001]

Does the pair of ATW 158's that run from Birmingham International split during the journey to Wales?

If bound for Holyhead, yes it does, as a portion is detached at Salop, and then added to the HHD-B'ham service, to add capacity on the Shropshire corridor.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You need to sort out the North Wales coast signalling first, thats what holds back a significant amount of capacity up there.

More carriages would do, not more services! For once, I agree with merlodlliw on that point. The standard 30 minute frequency on the core Chester-Llandudno Junction section is fine, though, we do need more seating capacity on some summer services.

Even the Conwy Valley line needs more than a 2-car at times in the summer!

 

[The Signalman]

The northbound WAG (1W91) was again very well loaded in STD class on departure from Salop - some passengers were even standing. There were a quite a few in 1st class as well.

Also a very large amount of passengers alighted at Salop from the 1633 HRS ex Marlyebone (1J83) & was still well loaded on departure going north towards Gobowen & Wrexham tonight.

 

[merlodlliw]

The northbound WAG (1W91) was again very well loaded in STD class on departure from Salop - some passengers were even standing. There were a quite a few in 1st class as well.

Also a very large amount of passengers alighted at Salop from the 1633 HRS ex Marlyebone (1J83) & was still well loaded on departure going north towards Gobowen & Wrexham tonight.

Thanks signalman,you are on site and give true readings,your info is
very useful, all we had before was a fog from ATW.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This question was put to the Minister in Charge of the Welsh Rail Franchise
by a North Wales Regional A.M. this week in the senedd , due to concerns of cost,reliability and 1st Class loadings. The answer from the Minister is as usual,Fog.All below Q & A is in the public domain

Holyhead to Cardiff Train Service

Q3 Mark Isherwood: Will the Minister make a statement on the Holyhead to Cardiff train service? OAQ(3)0998(ECT)

The Deputy First Minister: The limited-stop express service, Y Gerallt Gymro, between Holyhead and Cardiff was successfully launched in December 2008. That is in addition to the twice-hourly train service between Holyhead and Cardiff, which operates from Monday to Saturday.

Mark Isherwood: As you know, the Welsh Government is currently paying a subsidy for the train, which is estimated at £7,600 a day. There is growing concern about the lateness of the service, its frequent failings and its low-loading of first-class passengers. On 16 April, the 16.17 return service to Holyhead was cancelled due to train faults. It limped into Newport an hour late and was then cancelled. It was also cancelled on two consecutive days in March, and the train failed on 21 April between Crewe and Shrewsbury, because of brake problems, on the way to Cardiff. What discussions are you holding to address concerns and to clarify the numbers of passengers being carried on this train? Rail staff have advised that the majority of passengers are using this as a semi-fast service to Crewe from north Wales and as a service to Abergavenny from Cardiff rather than as service between Holyhead and our capital city?

The Deputy First Minister: I am a bit surprised that you have concentrated on those infrequent occasions when there have been problems with the train, because my understanding is that, since the launch of the service, there have been 188 scheduled trips, of which there have been problems with seven. Therefore, it is a very small number. Six of those cases were in relation to rolling-stock issues, and one was in relation to Network Rail infrastructure issues. Since the launch of the service good loadings have been carried. Arriva Trains has assured me that it is actively seeking to resolve the issues with regard to the occasions when there have been problems, and we want to ensure that even that limited number of problems will be resolved satisfactorily so that we can improve the service. It is encouraging that the passenger responses to the service since its introduction have been, by and large, favourable.

 

[tbtc]

More carriages would do, not more services! For once, I agree with merlodlliw on that point. The standard 30 minute frequency on the core Chester-Llandudno Junction section is fine, though, we do need more seating capacity on some summer services

I think that's true for many lines - we have good enough frequencies, it's just that the trains are too short. Any enhancements should be better train lengths rather than more services (e.g. does York to Manchester need four trains an hour? Three longer ones would be better).

If bound for Holyhead, yes it does, as a portion is detached at Salop, and then added to the HHD-B'ham service, to add capacity on the Shropshire corridor

How does that work in practice? East Midlands Trains have talked about doing this on one of my local routes (Norwich - Nottingham - Liverpool), with half of the four car 158 from Liverpool detatching at Nottingham and being joined to the next Norwich - Liverpool service). I was wondering how easily it works, and whether there's ever been any problems?

 

[175001]

How does that work in practice? East Midlands Trains have talked about doing this on one of my local routes (Norwich - Nottingham - Liverpool), with half of the four car 158 from Liverpool detatching at Nottingham and being joined to the next Norwich - Liverpool service). I was wondering how easily it works, and whether there's ever been any problems?

Very easy in practice.

Though from my experience it can be chaos on board, especially on the move between B'ham and Salop. When the conductor tells people that the service splits at Salop, people seem to think that the train will leave them behind at Salop despite there being a good 7 minutes for the slpit to happen, so you get the rush of people and baggage, cramming into the front 2-car, whilst on the move. All I do, is wait until we get into Salop, and wait for things to calm down, then move on to the front 2-car before they split.

 

[merlodlliw]

Very easy in practice.

Though from my experience it can be chaos on board, especially on the move between B'ham and Salop. When the conductor tells people that the service splits at Salop, people seem to think that the train will leave them behind at Salop despite there being a good 7 minutes for the slpit to happen, so you get the rush of people and baggage, cramming into the front 2-car, whilst on the move. All I do, is wait until we get into Salop, and wait for things to calm down, then move on to the front 2-car before they split.

Happens at Chester around ten times a weekday, however these are real
ten coach trains devided or joined up, best thing about Voyagers is it tells you where the coach is going by the door, e.g. 18.10hrs Euston to
Holyhead and Wrexham. And yes with 158s I agree it can be chaos,
the train comes into Shrewsbury empties,those on the platform told to
stay off, doors close/train devides/doors open, I used this when it was
Birm to Aber & Chester, now I wait for 175s or better still W/S

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Well Tony you are the second person to like 158s, I hate them up here,ATW 158s are ,scruffy,smelly dirty w/cs.

I do believe refurbing of 158s is due to start soon.

Well you are on the ground, but one of your head ATW honchos A Mr Bagshaw was saying to us in North East Wales ATW could not wait
to run it( WAG EX), but then suppose thats management speak.

he's an idiot though, as you said yourself thats just management speak. No one I have spoken to in the company has anything positive to say about the service.

 

[merlodlliw]

he's an idiot though, as you said yourself thats just management speak. No one I have spoken to in the company has anything positive to say about the service.[/QUOTE]

Hes a quote from another ATW Boss, speaking to a rail society in North Wales in April
" I herd Ben Davies deliver his usual review of the Wales system with you've got what you've got because there isn't any more unless someone else, WAG, buys us some new trains."

A good supplementary question might be: are the five
Class 150 trains currently 'on hire' from Arriva Trains
Wales to First Great Western (and in use in South-West
England) going to be returned to ATW in December, or
indeed at all?

 

[tbtc]

A good supplementary question might be: are the five Class 150 trains currently 'on hire' from Arriva Trains Wales to First Great Western (and in use in South-West England) going to be returned to ATW in December, or indeed at all?

That's a good question.

I get confused with all of the loans and swaps there are (don't expect I'll ever understand the various loans between Southern/ South Eastern/ First Capital Connect etc!)...

I *thought* that these were down at FGW until they got the (much announced) new stock for the Bristol area, but I'm probably wrong.

However, even if they did get the 150s back, I'd assume that these would go on the Valley Lines routes (and surrounding areas)? Do 150s run in central/ northern Wales? All I've seen is 153/ 158/ 175s, but your experience is definately a lot more than mine.

 

[175001]

.

However, even if they did get the 150s back, I'd assume that these would go on the Valley Lines routes (and surrounding areas)? Do 150s run in central/ northern Wales? All I've seen is 153/ 158/ 175s, but your experience is definately a lot more than mine.

150's run on 4 days on the Conwy Valley at the moment, will be daily in 2 weeks, whilst 150's run on the Borderlands line, i.e Wrexham-Bidston