WAG Express discussion

[sprinterguy]

Ah - 67003 IS in blue. I thought only 67001 and 002 were.. This was the one I saw today at Salop. Made a hell of a noise, and everyone on the platform was watching it.

67003 was the first 67 in Arriva blue, followed by 67001. 67002 has only recently, or is currently in the process of, joining them.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Saw WAG2 come through Cwmbran today- 3 car 175 with little sign of passengers on it.

 

[merlodlliw]

Saw WAG2 come through Cwmbran today- 3 car 175 with little sign of passengers on it.

I have always said running a Political train non stop Shrewsbury to Newport to arrive in Cardiff at noon, is a total waste of a 175, then it sits at Canton until 6.00p.m. doing nothing. Interesting you mention three car unit.


Bob

 

[Welshman]

I have always said running a Political train non stop Shrewsbury to Newport to arrive in Cardiff at noon, is a total waste of a 175, then it sits at Canton until 6.00p.m. doing nothing. Interesting you mention three car unit.


Bob

It's certainly a waste when you have 2-Car 175s substituting on the Manchester-Chester legs of North Wales services, and packed to the gunwhales.

 

[jones_bangor]

It's certainly a waste when you have 2-Car 175s substituting on the Manchester-Chester legs of North Wales services, and packed to the gunwhales.

Well it won't be for much longer, as the 67s / DVTs and Mark 3s will replace.

Found the "spec" for the Mark 3 carriages:
http://www.publictenders.net/tender/92111

Sound good - "std. class, enhanced first class (240v AC power supplies, WiFi, CCTV, passenger information, etc.), standard class, 1st class buffet car (possibly including dining area) actual numbers of carriages to be determined."

Hopefully up to Cross Country Mk3 / Chiltern grade!

 

[Welshman]

Well it won't be for much longer, as the 67s / DVTs and Mark 3s will replace.

Found the "spec" for the Mark 3 carriages:
http://www.publictenders.net/tender/92111

Are you saying there will be 67s and "proper" carriages on the NW main line?
Sounds like a dream come true!

 

[TDK]

Well it won't be for much longer, as the 67s / DVTs and Mark 3s will replace.

Found the "spec" for the Mark 3 carriages:
http://www.publictenders.net/tender/92111

Sound good - "std. class, enhanced first class (240v AC power supplies, WiFi, CCTV, passenger information, etc.), standard class, 1st class buffet car (possibly including dining area) actual numbers of carriages to be determined."

Hopefully up to Cross Country Mk3 / Chiltern grade!

The date on that document is 02.02.2011 with completion in December 2011 as yet there does not even seem to be any nearly ready, by the way that is only 5 days after the ceasing of operations of WSMR - very coincidental

 

[merlodlliw]

Are you saying there will be 67s and "proper" carriages on the NW main line?
Sounds like a dream come true!

Only very limited stops

And if they put a dinner on WAG2, that will be pure stupidity(lunch at 0930),all that is required is a buffet with so few customers.

And again both sets (if both run) parked up at Canton for six hours each is mindless, when franchise trains run standing room only.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The date on that document is 02.02.2011 with completion in December 2011 as yet there does not even seem to be any nearly ready, by the way that is only 5 days after the ceasing of operations of WSMR - very coincidental

Too coincidental, wheels within wheels.

With completion in December 2011, if that was dealing with a real Company & not the state, penalties would be pulled in, but we all know they wont, too much
closeness with a few individuals it seems.

 

[Michael.Y]

They would make SO much more money running one up to Manchester and back during the day, and one to Swansea / Carmarthen and back.

Either that, or run a bi-directional service.

 

[merlodlliw]

They would make SO much more money running one up to Manchester and back during the day, and one to Swansea / Carmarthen and back.

Either that, or run a bi-directional service.

Agree with the Manchester idea, there is already a two hour Cardiff to Holyhead service, no requirement for more down services in my opinion. Or change at Crewe and its an hourly service.

But these WAG trains are not run for the general public mores the pity,I go on about the 12 hours of no movement (X2),a sheer waste of stock, when 2 car Cardiff to Manchester 175s are standing only.

 

[swt_passenger]

The date on that document is 02.02.2011 with completion in December 2011 as yet there does not even seem to be any nearly ready, by the way that is only 5 days after the ceasing of operations of WSMR - very coincidental

There was no OJEU contract award notice for that project. Did it ever start?

 

[Bakers1970]

And again both sets (if both run) parked up at Canton for six hours each is mindless, when franchise trains run standing room only.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I totally understand your points on trains sat not in passenger service earning revenue.
However, the main reason WAG 1 sits in Cardiff from 10am ish until departure is the whole maintenance regime set up is structured around this downtime. All the maintenance/ Shunting is completed at Canton.While it may make sense to maintain at Holyhead during the weekend downtime, this at Present is not possible due to facilities and resources available at Holyhead. Although should a new shiny depot appear at Holyhead Then I 'm sure this set up may well change???

 

[merlodlliw]

And again both sets (if both run) parked up at Canton for six hours each is mindless, when franchise trains run standing room only.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I totally understand your points on trains sat not in passenger service earning revenue.
However, the main reason WAG 1 sits in Cardiff from 10am ish until departure is the whole maintenance regime set up is structured around this downtime. All the maintenance/ Shunting is completed at Canton.While it may make sense to maintain at Holyhead during the weekend downtime, this at Present is not possible due to facilities and resources available at Holyhead. Although should a new shiny depot appear at Holyhead Then I 'm sure this set up may well change???

I am not an engineer & welcome your comments, however WAG1 only covers just over 400 miles a day, but the six hours a day or 30 hours downtime Mon./Fri for maintenance seems a lot, I presume you are referring to carriage maintenance? as VT have a dept at Holyhead for fuelling the 57
But the downtime of six hours a day on the 175 is inexcusable.

Bob

 

[Michael.Y]

Won't skips/dvts and mk3s need less maintenance than bodysnatchers and mk2s?

 

[jones_bangor]

Won't skips/dvts and mk3s need less maintenance than bodysnatchers and mk2s?

You'd think so, no runaround needed - almost like an unit really.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Agree with the Manchester idea, there is already a two hour Cardiff to Holyhead service, no requirement for more down services in my opinion. Or change at Crewe and its an hourly service.

But these WAG trains are not run for the general public mores the pity,I go on about the 12 hours of no movement (X2),a sheer waste of stock, when 2 car Cardiff to Manchester 175s are standing only.

Not for the general public?

 

[Sheridan]

I think he means their purpose is politically symbolic rather than serving any genuine demand/need from the average rail passenger.

 

[merlodlliw]

I think he means their purpose is politically symbolic rather than serving any genuine demand/need from the average rail passenger.

Well put,and correct


Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Won't skips/dvts and mk3s need less maintenance than bodysnatchers and mk2s?

Even so, there is no change in the future timetable doing the rounds for consultation from May 15th I have been informed, ATW have the WAGs as now, both six hour downtimes, but this can change,consultation ends in March.

Bob

 

[Rhydgaled]

Even so, there is no change in the future timetable doing the rounds for consultation from May 15th I have been informed, ATW have the WAGs as now, both six hour downtimes, but this can change,consultation ends in March.

Is said consultation public, and about the future of the WAG Expresses? If so, I'd like to respond with a suggestion that the current pair of express are replaced by a single push-pull LHCS express service, via Wrexham, with a second push-pull LHCS express service (also via Wrexham) departing Holyhead for Cardiff at about 16:15. I would also suggest these run between Swansea (rather than Cardiff) and Holyhead and that the stock from the morning southbound service, on arrival at Swansea, take over from a 175 on a Swansea - Manchester service rather than have a 6-hour downtime in Canton. The evening Swansea - Holyhead express would then be formed of stock coming of a service from Manchester. That would of course involve providing a replacment DMU service from Cardiff to Carmarthen/Milford Haven.

 

[merlodlliw]

Is said consultation public, and about the future of the WAG Expresses? If so, I'd like to respond with a suggestion that the current pair of express are replaced by a single push-pull LHCS express service, via Wrexham, with a second push-pull LHCS express service (also via Wrexham) departing Holyhead for Cardiff at about 16:15. I would also suggest these run between Swansea (rather than Cardiff) and Holyhead and that the stock from the morning southbound service, on arrival at Swansea, take over from a 175 on a Swansea - Manchester service rather than have a 6-hour downtime in Canton. The evening Swansea - Holyhead express would then be formed of stock coming of a service from Manchester. That would of course involve providing a replacment DMU service from Cardiff to Carmarthen/Milford Haven.

Copies of the consultation document are being sent to all 22 County Councils in Wales and other stakeholders such as the http://www.taith.gov.uk/ and the others similar that represent rail travel in Wales.
Currently ATW unlike a few other tocs do not make the consultation timetable public, your local County Cllr will have access to it, as will this example http://www.borderlandsline.com/ local to me.

The local travel consortia such as Taith are made up of County Cllrs only & your local Cllr can ensure you see a copy & give feedback, Ask him.

The problem is the average traveller is unaware of such consultation.

In England all Councils who have ATW trains on their patch also have copies. The Rail travel dept of the County Council is the place to ask here.

Hope this helps

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

I think he means their purpose is politically symbolic rather than serving any genuine demand/need from the average rail passenger.

I only really use WAG 1 - always "nicely" busy when I use it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is said consultation public, and about the future of the WAG Expresses? If so, I'd like to respond with a suggestion that the current pair of express are replaced by a single push-pull LHCS express service, via Wrexham, with a second push-pull LHCS express service (also via Wrexham) departing Holyhead for Cardiff at about 16:15. I would also suggest these run between Swansea (rather than Cardiff) and Holyhead and that the stock from the morning southbound service, on arrival at Swansea, take over from a 175 on a Swansea - Manchester service rather than have a 6-hour downtime in Canton. The evening Swansea - Holyhead express would then be formed of stock coming of a service from Manchester. That would of course involve providing a replacment DMU service from Cardiff to Carmarthen/Milford Haven.

Sounds like a good idea. The new train should be a drive in, drive out - no need for loco run around.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Currently ATW unlike a few other tocs do not make the consultation timetable public, your local County Cllr will have access to it, as will this example http://www.borderlandsline.com/ local to me.

The local travel consortia such as Taith are made up of County Cllrs only & your local Cllr can ensure you see a copy & give feedback, Ask him.

I'm in Pembrokeshire, so I presume All Points West (SWWITCH's community rail partnership) would be the ones to contact. Have you any recomendations on how to contact them, since I think I once tried to contact either SWWITCH or All Points West and didn't get a reply?

 

[merlodlliw]

I'm in Pembrokeshire, so I presume All Points West (SWWITCH's community rail partnership) would be the ones to contact. Have you any recomendations on how to contact them, since I think I once tried to contact either SWWITCH or All Points West and didn't get a reply?

Ill find out who the contact is & let you know.

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

Ill find out who the contact is & let you know.

Bob

I'm slightly confused....surely the consultation is on franchised services, which Gerald / WAG Express is not?

But I agree that WAG 2 should be a northbound morning run, and southbound in the evening.

And I agree that a Holyhead - Crewe or Manchester run could be achieved in the downtime....

 

[merlodlliw]

I'm slightly confused....surely the consultation is on franchised services, which Gerald / WAG Express is not?

But I agree that WAG 2 should be a northbound morning run, and southbound in the evening.

And I agree that a Holyhead - Crewe or Manchester run could be achieved in the downtime....

The WAG Expresses were on and are still on the agenda of Taith in North Wales and discussed by the Cllrs, at a meeting a year ago a Flintshire Cllr complained about WAG2 not to stop at Flint, Wether or not its their remit, they do discuss.
Also David Bithel lead of WCBC transport complained to Taith about the WAG1
not going via Wrexham. The minutes are supposed read by the Minister.

A more immediate form I have found is to get a listed A.M to ask questions & pursue answers,We have two in North Wales who are very good at this & understand rail travel.

Bob

 

[TDK]

You'd think so, no runaround needed - almost like an unit really.

Slightly more complax than a unit from a driver's point of view I am sure the unions will have to allow at least 10 minutes for changing ends as the sets need to be overcharged if the key is removed or the brake pipe destroyed in all circumstances

 

[merlodlliw]

This will be the second time the stock has run via Wrexham for picking up passengers.

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm story & pics on this happening



Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

This will be the second time the stock has run via Wrexham for picking up passengers.

So the 30 minutes at Chester is the time a 57 takes to get going from a cold start? I wonder how long a 67 would take.......

 

[Michael.Y]

So the 30 minutes at Chester is the time a 57 takes to get going from a cold start? I wonder how long a 67 would take.......

One imagines, and hopes, that as a fairly modern loco it can just switch its drive from one direction to another.

 

[Rhydgaled]

One imagines, and hopes, that as a fairly modern loco it can just switch its drive from one direction to another.

I would imagine a 57 is capable of that too, it's just when reversing a top&tail train (with one loco dead on rear, rather than being on and wasting fuel) you have to start it up. Still suprising that it takes 30 minutes to power a loco up though.

 

[merlodlliw]

So the 30 minutes at Chester is the time a 57 takes to get going from a cold start? I wonder how long a 67 would take.......

The 57 on the WAG Mon to Friday, is never switched off,left ticking over all night, It is my impression with the switch at Chester the rear end 57 was in fact ticking over on departing Holyhead?. 57s according to a driver I spoke to said they are awful to start up from cold.
The triangle at Chester could not be used with passengers on board. I also think to 30 mins at Chester was just in case of problems,

TDK will give chapter & verse on 67s start up,he drives them,I also recall Andy Hamilton CEO of W/S telling me, "I would not touch 57s with a barge pole,too unreliable"

Also good to learn the main traffic of passengers was from Wrexham,for once ATW advertised the fact it was running a Rug Ex special, only £18 return for over 55s.

Bob