WAG Express discussion

[ValleyLines142]

It's not working it yet. The 67+DVT setup isn't due yet. Still 57s only at the mo.

Ah okay, I'll look out for it when it comes into service, the 57s are so noisy!!

 

[CardiffKid]

Having looked at the photos again, I believe the DVT is standing at the rear/west of platform 2 and that the angle of the photo / photographer means that the water tower is to the right of the photo/photographer. Compare the position of the lights.

Correct, you can also tell as there are four tracks between where the photo was taken(#3) and the next platform across (#2)

 

[ValleyLines142]

Correct, you can also tell as there are four tracks between where the photo was taken(#3) and the next platform across (#2)

Yes, there's a pair of through tracks between platforms 2 and 3.

 

[merlodlliw]

No the DVT is standing on platform 2. The water tower is on the other side of platform 0 behind the car park.

Hang on, is this photoshopped? Or genuine?

Thanks I thought it was platform two, who do you think the DVT is hired in from,as I think we now agree it exists.

Wrexham General is busy on Sundays, now all the Manchester Cardiff's are diverted through it & SD & PU, as an aside.


Bob

 

[IanXC]

Thanks I thought it was platform two, who do you think the DVT is hired in from,as I think we now agree it exists.

I presume they're DB\Arriva ones, didn't they buy up quite a few while they've been on the mark 3 buying spree?

 

[merlodlliw]

I presume they're DB\Arriva ones, didn't they buy up quite a few while they've been on the mark 3 buying spree?

Very creative accounting if they can hire it from themselves like the 175 DB/ATW hired in from its own franchise for WAG2

Bob

 

[TDK]

Very creative accounting if they can hire it from themselves like the 175 DB/ATW hired in from its own franchise for WAG2

Bob

ATW will be hiring the coaches and DVT's from DB/Arriva UK as far as I am aware

 

[ValleyLines142]

Thanks I thought it was platform two, who do you think the DVT is hired in from,as I think we now agree it exists.

Wrexham General is busy on Sundays, now all the Manchester Cardiff's are diverted through it & SD & PU, as an aside.


Bob

I honestly have no idea, didn't know anything about it! (although realistically I don't think anyone did!).

 

[merlodlliw]

Down Wag Express(Gerald Wag 1) 2 hours 47 late on 5th Jan.

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

 

[Erniescooper]

Down Wag Express(Gerald Wag 1) 2 hours 47 late on 5th Jan.

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

The modern fragmented railway at its very worst , you would of thought a loco from DRS or Freightliner stood at Crewe could have been borrowed for a short trip to Nantwich and at least dragged it to Crewe , then people could have gone forward to the coast on the Crewe - Chester shuttle . It's not the first time it's happened either , it failed at beeston last year and ended up 186 minutes late into Chester.

 

[PHILIPE]

I recall an occasion on the Marches one Saturday a few years ago when a Freight (EWS at the time) failed near Ludlow. The nearest loco available to assist was at Crewe and it was a further 2 hours before a Driver was available to come and assist.

 

[jones_bangor]

Just as well the 57s are being replaced by the 67s!

 

[merlodlliw]

Just as well the 57s are being replaced by the 67s!

I wonder where a the nearest tug will be found, when the WAG goes 67,however the 67s are far more reliable, I recall Andy Hamilton MD of W/S telling us, " I would not touch a 57 with a barge pole, far too unreliable" but then Andy knew his stuff, unlike some at the land of leather.

Anyone know if the pax were ferried off the WAG57, when it failed at Nantwich as Crewe is only a few minutes away, however better stuck on a loco hauled for almost three hours than a DMU, no doubt for once the kitchen returned empty.

Bob

 

[TDK]

I wonder where a the nearest tug will be found, when the WAG goes 67,however the 67s are far more reliable, I recall Andy Hamilton MD of W/S telling us, " I would not touch a 57 with a barge pole, far too unreliable" but then Andy knew his stuff, unlike some at the land of leather.

Anyone know if the pax were ferried off the WAG57, when it failed at Nantwich as Crewe is only a few minutes away, however better stuck on a loco hauled for almost three hours than a DMU, no doubt for once the kitchen returned empty.

Bob

I would sooner be on a unit bob because if the loco failed and the engine shut down the ETH would not be avaialble for heat at least with a unit you have another engine at least if it's a 2 car to keep the set warm and with air. Another thing as well is if the engine shuts down with CDL once the air goes there is a door release automatically, this is a safety system so therefore doors will be released on both sides so therefore the guard or drive must lock the doors from the outside and this in turn is a problem for safety.

 

[merlodlliw]

I would sooner be on a unit bob because if the loco failed and the engine shut down the ETH would not be avaialble for heat at least with a unit you have another engine at least if it's a 2 car to keep the set warm and with air. Another thing as well is if the engine shuts down with CDL once the air goes there is a door release automatically, this is a safety system so therefore doors will be released on both sides so therefore the guard or drive must lock the doors from the outside and this in turn is a problem for safety.

I was thinking more of comfort than other the obvious advantages of a DMU you mention, unless its the Cardiff Bay bubble car

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

The 57s days do seem numbered -after all, they are essentially "duff" based.

 

[TDK]

The 57s days do seem numbered -after all, they are essentially "duff" based.

57's are like 47's duff locos and inpractical on todays railways

 

[Gareth Marston]

Southbound WAG2 had around 20 on it leaving Shrewsbury yesterday.

I was on 1121 ex CDF to Holyhead last Thursday, only passenger in lead coach (3 car 175) between Cardiff and Newport. Market for all these north to south trains seems thinner and thinner.

I was on it as i had got all the way to Cdf and had meeting cancelled on me without anyone having courtesy to say anything.

 

[Sun!]

I was on 1121 ex CDF to Holyhead last Thursday, only passenger in lead coach (3 car 175) between Cardiff and Newport. Market for all these north to south trains seems thinner and thinner.

To be fair ive been on CDF-Holyhead trains that have left Cardiff with people standing. While few people do the full journey, many travel small sections and it means the train can be busy all the way through.

 

[jones_bangor]

Southbound WAG2 had around 20 on it leaving Shrewsbury yesterday.

I was on 1121 ex CDF to Holyhead last Thursday, only passenger in lead coach (3 car 175) between Cardiff and Newport. Market for all these north to south trains seems thinner and thinner.

But I'm sure you could travel on many other routes at that time of day and find them very quiet!

I caught WAG 2 southwards the other morning - surprisingly busy, and some pleasantly surprised passengers heading back to Cardiff when they were told by the conductor that the train was non-stop Shrewsbury - Newport. The "enhanced" trolley departed at Shrewsbury though.

 

[Rhydgaled]

57's are like 47's duff locos and inpractical on todays railways

I think I was told on here once that the engines in the 57s, while not from the 47, were still old engines not new ones. I personally think the idea of recycling the bodyshell (which should last practically forever if looked after) was a good one, but that it really should have been brand new (or almost new), super-reliable, equipement that went in rather than re-cycled engines. That said, since the early days when they the WAG express was top&tail, I haven't heard many reports of 57 failures on the WAG express and therefore I'm not entirely sure whether I should consider them to be unreliable locos.

I'd prefer the WAG Express to be hauled by a 57 done properly (47 bodyshell with reliable inards, the best possible fuel ecconomy and push-pull systems) than a less-good-looking, 125mph class 67 doing (supposedly) higher damage to the track (higher axle weight?). However, 67s will have to do for now as they are the only things that don't require OHLE and can work with a DVT at the moment and hence they are the only way to get that 175 back to keep a 150 off long-distance services.

To be fair ive been on CDF-Holyhead trains that have left Cardiff with people standing. While few people do the full journey, many travel small sections and it means the train can be busy all the way through.

Because few people do the full journey and Wrexham and Holyhead could use direct services to Crewe or Manchester I wouldn't mind seeing the 2-hourly stoppers re-routed to reduce the Holyhead - Cardiff direct service to 2 or 3 expresses each way. However, all who complain at the lack of Holyhead and Wrexham to Manchester services should note that the fleet might not stretch to running the services from Cardiff and Holyhead to Crewe or Manchester and back from the current reversal point at Chester.

 

[TDK]

But I'm sure you could travel on many other routes at that time of day and find them very quiet!

That is true Jones but those trains are franchised and not costing the Welsh taxpayer extra money

 

[merlodlliw]

I think I was told on here once that the engines in the 57s, while not from the 47, were still old engines not new ones. I personally think the idea of recycling the bodyshell (which should last practically forever if looked after) was a good one, but that it really should have been brand new (or almost new), super-reliable, equipement that went in rather than re-cycled engines. That said, since the early days when they the WAG express was top&tail, I haven't heard many reports of 57 failures on the WAG express and therefore I'm not entirely sure whether I should consider them to be unreliable locos.

I'd prefer the WAG Express to be hauled by a 57 done properly (47 bodyshell with reliable inards, the best possible fuel ecconomy and push-pull systems) than a less-good-looking, 125mph class 67 doing (supposedly) higher damage to the track (higher axle weight?). However, 67s will have to do for now as they are the only things that don't require OHLE and can work with a DVT at the moment and hence they are the only way to get that 175 back to keep a 150 off long-distance services.

Because few people do the full journey and Wrexham and Holyhead could use direct services to Crewe or Manchester I wouldn't mind seeing the 2-hourly stoppers re-routed to reduce the Holyhead - Cardiff direct service to 2 or 3 expresses each way. However, all who complain at the lack of Holyhead and Wrexham to Manchester services should note that the fleet might not stretch to running the services from Cardiff and Holyhead to Crewe or Manchester and back from the current reversal point at Chester.

There have been a few failures unreported,had the 57 not been out of service for six hours a day, there would have been more I am sure.
A 175 replaced a 57 last month.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Southbound WAG2 had around 20 on it leaving Shrewsbury yesterday.

I was on 1121 ex CDF to Holyhead last Thursday, only passenger in lead coach (3 car 175) between Cardiff and Newport. Market for all these north to south trains seems thinner and thinner.

I was on it as i had got all the way to Cdf and had meeting cancelled on me without anyone having courtesy to say anything.

Long gone the meetings in Shrewsbury,no body was that far away then, I too have suffered cancelled meetings,attention to detail comes to mind.

Bob

 

[anthony263]

Heard that 67003 was in Cardiff today on driver training.

 

[jones_bangor]

That is true Jones but those trains are franchised and not costing the Welsh taxpayer extra money

Extra money, yes, but they still cost the taxpayer money.

My view on WAG 2 is that it leaves an hour too late from either end, it should replace the 0628 Holyhead departure southbound and 1721 Cardiff departure northbound, or even better, run as a northbound in the morning and south in the evening!

Another possibility is that WAG 1, one it becomes a DVT-67 train, could run up to Manchester and back as a midday train and return in time to form WAG 2 (assuming current timetables are more or less retained).

 

[TDK]

Extra money, yes, but they still cost the taxpayer money.

My view on WAG 2 is that leaves and hour too late from either end.

Indeed but the train is governd by what the WAG want and not what is best for passengers in general. Come on Jones, it is a complete waste of taxpayers money and to be honest the WAG should have sai to ATW, " if you need to increase capacity on any of your routes here is 6m quid to help you" The ATW could have done this themselves insted of being told by the WAG what they want them to do! This service is only good for neds, Welsh AM's and people who want 1st class travel! I thought the current WAG government was totally agains a class run country!

 

[sprinterguy]

I think I was told on here once that the engines in the 57s, while not from the 47, were still old engines not new ones. I personally think the idea of recycling the bodyshell (which should last practically forever if looked after) was a good one, but that it really should have been brand new (or almost new), super-reliable, equipement that went in rather than re-cycled engines. That said, since the early days when they the WAG express was top&tail, I haven't heard many reports of 57 failures on the WAG express and therefore I'm not entirely sure whether I should consider them to be unreliable locos.

I'd prefer the WAG Express to be hauled by a 57 done properly (47 bodyshell with reliable inards, the best possible fuel ecconomy and push-pull systems) than a less-good-looking, 125mph class 67 doing (supposedly) higher damage to the track (higher axle weight?). However, 67s will have to do for now as they are the only things that don't require OHLE and can work with a DVT at the moment and hence they are the only way to get that 175 back to keep a 150 off long-distance services.

At least some of the alternators used in the 57/3s were recovered from class 56 locos. I don't think the power units are reconditioned though, or at least not from anything British at any rate.

The 67s do indeed have a considerably higher axle weight, with a route avilability of 8 and an axle weight of 22.5 tonnes compared to a class 57s' RA of 6 and a 19.5 tonne axle weight

 

[Greenback]

Indeed but the train is governd by what the WAG want and not what is best for passengers in general. Come on Jones, it is a complete waste of taxpayers money and to be honest the WAG should have sai to ATW, " if you need to increase capacity on any of your routes here is 6m quid to help you" The ATW could have done this themselves insted of being told by the WAG what they want them to do! This service is only good for neds, Welsh AM's and people who want 1st class travel! I thought the current WAG government was totally agains a class run country!

Although I agree with the WAG and WAG2 being a waste of money, the nprevailing view these days seems to be that those who provide the money bave a right to state where and how it should be used.

What the WG should say is here is money to improve capacity between Manchester and South West Wales, and here is some more to improve capacity between Manchester and North Wales. But they won't do that for political reasons.

 

[merlodlliw]

Although I agree with the WAG and WAG2 being a waste of money, the nprevailing view these days seems to be that those who provide the money bave a right to state where and how it should be used.

What the WG should say is here is money to improve capacity between Manchester and South West Wales, and here is some more to improve capacity between Manchester and North Wales. But they won't do that for political reasons.

Wag2 the classless 175, is in my opinion a total waste of a unit that could be better used within the franchise from where it was lifted.

Fully agree with you Greenback, improve Manchester/South West Wales & Manchester Nth Wales, but it wont happen. Politics v common sense.


Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

Indeed but the train is governd by what the WAG want and not what is best for passengers in general. Come on Jones, it is a complete waste of taxpayers money and to be honest the WAG should have sai to ATW, " if you need to increase capacity on any of your routes here is 6m quid to help you" The ATW could have done this themselves insted of being told by the WAG what they want them to do! This service is only good for neds, Welsh AM's and people who want 1st class travel! I thought the current WAG government was totally agains a class run country!

Well I'm not actually sure who uses first class on the train - it does seem an extravagance - although the buffet is used by STD class passengers - at least one took advantage of an evening meal on last night's service.

I agree ATW could have come up with this themselves, I would support the integration of puish-pull stock into both Cardiff - Manchester and Holyhead, this could have cascade benefits for the rest of the ATW network.

However, it is not a complete waste of taxpayers money, far from it, and it's helped reduced perceptions of a North - South divide in Wales.

P.S. What's a ned!?