WAG Express discussion

[ValleyLines142]

As quaint as it is, the WAG Express is so noisy, I had a banging headache at Central on Friday when 1V31 pulled in!

About two weeks ago the 1615 ended up being a 175. There were some funny expressions on the go at Central!

 

[jones_bangor]

As quaint as it is, the WAG Express is so noisy, I had a banging headache at Central on Friday when 1V31 pulled in!

About two weeks ago the 1615 ended up being a 175. There were some funny expressions on the go at Central!

No more noisy than the FGW 67s for Taunton though!!

 

[ValleyLines142]

No more noisy than the FGW 67s for Taunton though!!

True, they're just as bad as each other!

 

[merlodlliw]

As quaint as it is, the WAG Express is so noisy, I had a banging headache at Central on Friday when 1V31 pulled in!

About two weeks ago the 1615 ended up being a 175. There were some funny expressions on the go at Central!

When I am on Cardiff Central station platforms, I always consider the HSTs to be the most ear shattering,

Read about the 175 replacing Gerald, one wag wondered if fish & chips had been ordered at Newport x 2 for Premier Class that afternoon

Never considered 67s over noisy/


Bob

 

[tbtc]

There aren't enough 158s to go around, you won't find any more for ATW.

...hence my suggestion (above) that ATW try for some after the EGIP cascade in Scotland

 

[ValleyLines142]

When I am on Cardiff Central station platforms, I always consider the HSTs to be the most ear shattering,

Read about the 175 replacing Gerald, one wag wondered if fish & chips had been ordered at Newport x 2 for Premier Class that afternoon

Never considered 67s over noisy/


Bob

The HSTs I think are a lot quieter now that they have MTU engines.

Mind you, the daily Voyager makes the most of its time at Central, that can be absolutely deafening when it leaves platform 2 at 0700.

Haha, fish and chips, brilliant!

I think 57's are slightly noisier than 67's.

 

[sprinterguy]

There are four class 57s in ATW colours (two in full livery, two in plain dark blue). When the express started, it was run with top&tail 57s so 2 in service 2 spare. According to the junction's fleet lists, there are 18 mark 2s with Arriva:

• 2x Mark 2e TSO
• 11x Mark 2f TSO
• 2x Mark 2e BSO
• 3x Mark 2f BSO

Of these, I think I've seen a photo of 6 of them on a Rugby extra train in WAG express livery (so one spare rake), the others I believe are completly unused. Of the more knowlagable out there, does anyone know if the junction's information is correct or if there are really 22 ATW mrk2s as Wikipedia claims?

I can confirm that The Junction is correct, AFAIK.

 

[NJTom]

Since it looks like another 175 could be out for a while, does that scupper the plans to ditch the 57?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Since it looks like another 175 could be out for a while, does that scupper the plans to ditch the 57?

My moneys on more 150's popping up on Holyhead and Manchester trains.

 

[merlodlliw]

My moneys on more 150's popping up on Holyhead and Manchester trains.

ATW should immediately Put the 175 open access two coach WAG2 , back in the franchise where it came from, in place of this wicked six hour rest at Canton, that would assist passengers after today's problem, but alas ATW wont.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Since it looks like another 175 could be out for a while, does that scupper the plans to ditch the 57?

The 57s days are numbered, if ATW were professional the 67 would have been operational last Monday. The 175 WAG Ex was only supposed to be a six month stop gap, which everyone I speak to considers a waste of a franchise stock train.

 

[Gareth Marston]

ATW should immediately Put the 175 open access two coach WAG2 , back in the franchise where it came from, in place of this wicked six hour rest at Canton, that would assist passengers after today's problem, but alas ATW wont.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The 57s days are numbered, if ATW were professional the 67 would have been operational last Monday. The 175 WAG Ex was only supposed to be a six month stop gap, which everyone I speak to considers a waste of a franchise stock train.

In Arriva's defense (which I don't do often or lightly) I think the air of uncertainty as to the whole future of WAG 1 & 2 played its part in them being cautious and not wanting to get fingers burnt financially. It took Labour 7 months to get their budget approved, remember in that time any one asking anything about transport was told that a re prioritized national transport plan would appear in the autumn. This uncertainty lead to this thread starting.

 

[jones_bangor]

ATW should immediately Put the 175 open access two coach WAG2 , back in the franchise where it came from, in place of this wicked six hour rest at Canton, that would assist passengers after today's problem, but alas ATW wont.

Wicked? Is their something taking place on that train that we don't know about........

 

[Michael.Y]

One day, I'd love WAG2 to be a Pacer. Just for the novelty factor.

 

[merlodlliw]

Lots of info this week http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm about the WAGS

Driver training on 67s, for the via Crewe run.

General banter etc


Bob
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In Arriva's defense (which I don't do often or lightly) I think the air of uncertainty as to the whole future of WAG 1 & 2 played its part in them being cautious and not wanting to get fingers burnt financially. It took Labour 7 months to get their budget approved, remember in that time any one asking anything about transport was told that a re prioritized national transport plan would appear in the autumn. This uncertainty lead to this thread starting.

Ieuan Wyn Jones then Plaid Minister for Rail gave £3.5millions to ATW to get 67s up & running , that was in March this year from the previous years budget if I am not mistaken, what have ATW done with this public money, this was at the same time he extended WAGAIRs life.

I agree the transport plan was in chaos.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wicked? Is their something taking place on that train that we don't know about........

How about wicked waste of public money,having a desperately needed franchise 175 (where it came from) just lying idle for six hours between Noon & 6p.m.

 

[Squaddie]

Lots of info this week http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm about the WAGS

Although they do seem to have gone "off-message", describing it as "one of the last civilised trains in Britain".

 

[Rhydgaled]

Although the NW rail page says there will be no DVT on the WAG express, it appears that 67003 at least has recived the necessary fire precautions to work with DVTs which have had the necessary modifications to work with 67s. I assume therefore that they are still planning to get the DVTs eventually, but when? I guess they haven't any spare DVTs that have the necessary gear to work with 67s, so sadly the 175 on WAG2 will have to wait until they modify more DVTs.

 

[merlodlliw]

Although the NW rail page says there will be no DVT on the WAG express, it appears that 67003 at least has recived the necessary fire precautions to work with DVTs which have had the necessary modifications to work with 67s. I assume therefore that they are still planning to get the DVTs eventually, but when? I guess they haven't any spare DVTs that have the necessary gear to work with 67s, so sadly the 175 on WAG2 will have to wait until they modify more DVTs.

TDK who drives 67s & others will know about fire precautions etc. they should get the DVTs, part of the £3.5 millions contract WG have paid ATW for open access stock

 

[Rhydgaled]

TDK who drives 67s & others will know about fire precautions etc. they should get the DVTs, part of the £3.5 millions contract WG have paid ATW for open access stock

Have you found out if ATW refunded part of the £3.5m due to their failure to provide LHCS to get the 175 off WAG 2 and back into franchise service yet? Perhaps ATW would have charged the same for the 175 anyway, so are providing that instead. I certainly hope WAG aren't paying for 175 as well as non-existant 67s with DVTs.

 

[merlodlliw]

Have you found out if ATW refunded part of the £3.5m due to their failure to provide LHCS to get the 175 off WAG 2 and back into franchise service yet? Perhaps ATW would have charged the same for the 175 anyway, so are providing that instead. I certainly hope WAG aren't paying for 175 as well as non-existant 67s with DVTs.

I have requested two of my A.Ms to ask the Minister about perceived double funding to ATW over this, I don't expect a response until the new year.


Bob

 

[TDK]

TDK who drives 67s & others will know about fire precautions etc. they should get the DVTs, part of the £3.5 millions contract WG have paid ATW for open access stock

You can top and tail 67's without fire precautions on the loco as long as the rear loco is dead hauled however ATW will need to ger an NR derogation regarding a brake van as I know that this will be required unless one of their coaches is a brake van of course, with a DVT this is the brake van. If a DVT is used the loco has to have the required fire precautions installed so the driver can operate the fire system and shut down the lcoc from the DVT, if the loco does not have the fire precautions installed and the DVT is leading a fireman (competent person) must travel in the loco and be trained in shutting the loco down in the case of a fire on the loco.

ATW in their defence have not really had enough time to bring on any refubished DVT's so they will if they want to keep their word top and tail 67's for the WAG2, if this is not done there are going to be some problems for ATW not using the 3.5m for what it was given to them for - ring any bells Bob? However, the whole thing is a shambles and I can wee WAG dropping the project and letting ATW keep the money, this is my own opinion and an opinion only not from fact.

 

[Rhydgaled]

If a DVT is used the loco has to have the required fire precautions installed so the driver can operate the fire system and shut down the lcoc from the DVT, if the loco does not have the fire precautions installed and the DVT is leading a fireman (competent person) must travel in the loco and be trained in shutting the loco down in the case of a fire on the loco.

My point was one of the ATW liveried 67s has been photographed working with a DVT, so I assumed ATW had got the fire precautions fitted in that loco. Are the 67s for ATW fitted with fire precautions or was there a fireman in the loco in the train photographed?

 

[jones_bangor]

ATW in their defence have not really had enough time to bring on any refubished DVT's so they will if they want to keep their word top and tail 67's for the WAG2, if this is not done there are going to be some problems for ATW not using the 3.5m for what it was given to them for - ring any bells Bob? However, the whole thing is a shambles and I can wee WAG dropping the project and letting ATW keep the money, this is my own opinion and an opinion only not from fact.

It sounds to me like, as on the nwrail site, that WAG1 will move to 67 haulage ASAP.

Presumably the plan is eventually to have a DVT - 67 set up, but even next May isn't that far away.

 

[merlodlliw]

You can top and tail 67's without fire precautions on the loco as long as the rear loco is dead hauled however ATW will need to ger an NR derogation regarding a brake van as I know that this will be required unless one of their coaches is a brake van of course, with a DVT this is the brake van. If a DVT is used the loco has to have the required fire precautions installed so the driver can operate the fire system and shut down the lcoc from the DVT, if the loco does not have the fire precautions installed and the DVT is leading a fireman (competent person) must travel in the loco and be trained in shutting the loco down in the case of a fire on the loco.

ATW in their defence have not really had enough time to bring on any refubished DVT's so they will if they want to keep their word top and tail 67's for the WAG2, if this is not done there are going to be some problems for ATW not using the 3.5m for what it was given to them for - ring any bells Bob? However, the whole thing is a shambles and I can wee WAG dropping the project and letting ATW keep the money, this is my own opinion and an opinion only not from fact.

Thanks TDK, the interesting fact is the £3.5millions given to ATW by WG was to bring on a 67/DVT or twin 67 for WAG Ex via Wrexham, it was not for using 67s on Gerald WAG1,via Crewe which is now the case, so WG are forking out a hell of of a lot of extra public money by the proposed fudge of resources by ATW.
Again I am not against extra sensible open access services due to chronic overcrowding, but overcrowding does not apply on the Political WAG Exs.
I also am long enough in the tooth to realise some aspirations by Political leaders at Cardiff can not be met, and ATW which at times seems too cosy in Cardiff with WG Officials should say it can not be done. My opinion of course.

 

[TDK]

My point was one of the ATW liveried 67s has been photographed working with a DVT, so I assumed ATW had got the fire precautions fitted in that loco. Are the 67s for ATW fitted with fire precautions or was there a fireman in the loco in the train photographed?

All 3 ATW 67's have fire precautions fitted however from past experience 3 locos may not always be available for use when in service
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Thanks TDK, the interesting fact is the £3.5millions given to ATW by WG was to bring on a 67/DVT or twin 67 for WAG Ex via Wrexham, it was not for using 67s on Gerald WAG1,via Crewe which is now the case, so WG are forking out a hell of of a lot of extra public money by the proposed fudge of resources by ATW.

Indeed, it's either 67's for WAG1 or a 175, 158, 150 or a 153 as the 57's are no longer available, once again in ATW's defence they did have the foresight to use one of the 67's vice a 175 Bob on WAG1 and now it is clear why they have requested 3 67's and not 2, one for WAG1, one for WAG2 and one spare. It's the DVT's and coaches that are the problem, they will not need a DVT for WAG1 of course.

 

[merlodlliw]

All 3 ATW 67's have fire precautions fitted however from past experience 3 locos may not always be available for use when in service
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Indeed, it's either 67's for WAG1 or a 175, 158, 150 or a 153 as the 57's are no longer available, once again in ATW's defence they did have the foresight to use one of the 67's vice a 175 Bob on WAG1 and now it is clear why they have requested 3 67's and not 2, one for WAG1, one for WAG2 and one spare. It's the DVT's and coaches that are the problem, they will not need a DVT for WAG1 of course.

Not quite sure what you mean by " in ATW's defence they did have the foresight to use one of the 67's vice a 175 Bob on WAG1"

Bob

 

[craig87034]

82306 ex 82144 is now in ATW livery, 82307 ex 82131 is under conversion at Brush

 

[jones_bangor]

Indeed, it's either 67's for WAG1 or a 175, 158, 150 or a 153 as the 57's are no longer available, once again in ATW's defence they did have the foresight to use one of the 67's vice a 175 Bob on WAG1 and now it is clear why they have requested 3 67's and not 2, one for WAG1, one for WAG2 and one spare. It's the DVT's and coaches that are the problem, they will not need a DVT for WAG1 of course.

I understood the aspiration was to run both the WAG Express trains via Wrexham once the stock was available.

It does sound like this will be reality if the DVTs are being prepared.

So a start to DVT operation in May? Enpugh time for driver / crew training.....

Will it be mk3s, or the mk2s and mk3 restaurant....?

 

[merlodlliw]

I understood the aspiration was to run both the WAG Express trains via Wrexham once the stock was available.

It does sound like this will be reality if the DVTs are being prepared.

So a start to DVT operation in May? Enpugh time for driver / crew training.....

Will it be mk3s, or the mk2s and mk3 restaurant....?

To put a restaurant car on a train arriving in Cardiff at noon plus 30 that departed at 8a.m. from Holyhead will be vanity gone mad.
All that is required is a buffet.

ATW do not want WAG1 to bypass Crewe.

 

[jones_bangor]

ATW do not want WAG1 to bypass Crewe.

Is that fact or personal opinion? There would not really be any loss to passengers to Crewe as the WAG (or WG!!??) 1 is followed by a Voyager about 15 minutes later. Why bother preparing the 2 x DVT if it's running via Crewe?

My understanding was that as soon as reversal at Chester was do-able, the indication from then Transport Minister IWJ was that the train would run via Wrexham. Surely ATW will do whatever WG tell them on this one.

Agree that a buffet is more than enough on WAG 2.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is that fact or personal opinion? There would not really be any loss to passengers to Crewe as the WAG (or WG!!??) 1 is followed by a Voyager about 15 minutes later. Why bother preparing the 2 x DVT if it's running via Crewe?

My understanding was that as soon as reversal at Chester was do-able, the indication from then Transport Minister IWJ was that the train would run via Wrexham. Surely ATW will do whatever WG tell them on this one.

You are probably right, but I can assure you that WAG1's load out of Chester is principally headed to Crewe (and English destinations beyond).
Yet another unnecessary clamber over the footbridge and loss of connectivity.
There will be a 52min peak-hour gap between Chester-Crewe trains if WAG1 is diverted.

Even when a DVT is available, there is still the problem of finding a Saltney-Wrexham path at a time when VT's Wrexham service is coming the other way, and sorting out the local services to Shrewsbury/Bidston.