WAG Express discussion

[Rhydgaled]

Talking about it with my conductor this morning, he said the DVTs won't be running until December.

A whole year late:roll:. <sarcasam>Well done Arriva Trains Wales.</sarcasam>

 

[Michael.Y]

A whole year late:roll:. <sarcasam>Well done Arriva Trains Wales.</sarcasam>

Late by whose standards?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Late by whose standards?

Doesn't merlodlliw keep saying that the £x.xm for WAG 2 (via Wrexham) with class 67s was due to start at the December 2011 timetable change? If I remember rightly the 175 on WAG 2 was orriginally contracted to run from May 2011 until December 2011. Since then, WAG have apparently been paying for a 67+DVT operated service via Wrexham AND the same service with a 175, despite ATW only providing the 175-operated train. If the post I quoted is correct that 67s won't take over that service until the December timetable change this year, that is a whole year after the 67+DVT via Wrexham was supposed to start.

 

[Gareth Marston]

1320 CDF to HHD today was a refurbished 158- 834 they terminated it at Shrewsbury Platform 4 and a 150 -251 was waiting in front of it to go on to Holyhead. The 1409 ex BHM INTL - Aberystwyth then arrived as a 2 car formation and joined up with 834. guard went through as though 834 was the unit for Pwllheli moving people. i got off at Newtown so don't' know if that actually happened.
1330 from Abersytwyth was hour late we crossed it at Welshpool it used DOWN we used UP line.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

1320 CDF to HHD today was a refurbished 158- 834 they terminated it at Shrewsbury Platform 4 and a 150 -251 was waiting in front of it to go on to Holyhead. The 1409 ex BHM INTL - Aberystwyth then arrived as a 2 car formation and joined up with 834. guard went through as though 834 was the unit for Pwllheli moving people. i got off at Newtown so don't' know if that actually happened.
1330 from Abersytwyth was hour late we crossed it at Welshpool it used DOWN we used UP line.

I did Manchester-Crewe this afternoon and 3 ATW services in succession were 2-car 175s.
The one I was on was 1430 MAN-MFH, which becomes the 1737 ex-CDF.
Would not fancy trying to board this at Cardiff.

 

[anthony263]

That 17:37 from Cardiff to west wales also provides a connection for Fishguard and is always overcrowded as people won't wit for 10 minutes for teh hst behind an dthen they moan.

I already told 1 woman before since I was going to Pyle I had to travel on that train not my problem she wouldnt wait.

Ideally that train should be a 3 carriage 175 or at least a class 158/150 between Cardiff & Swansea

 

[merlodlliw]

Doesn't merlodlliw keep saying that the £x.xm for WAG 2 (via Wrexham) with class 67s was due to start at the December 2011 timetable change? If I remember rightly the 175 on WAG 2 was orriginally contracted to run from May 2011 until December 2011. Since then, WAG have apparently been paying for a 67+DVT operated service via Wrexham AND the same service with a 175, despite ATW only providing the 175-operated train. If the post I quoted is correct that 67s won't take over that service until the December timetable change this year, that is a whole year after the 67+DVT via Wrexham was supposed to start.

You are correct in your understanding, IWJ the then Minister for rail made a statement in March/April last year, saying WAG2 175 via Wrexham would run from May to December 2011 and ATW had been given £3.5 millions to acquire stock for a loco hauled set to run via Wrexham from the Dec 2011 timetable.
£650K was given to ATW to acquire a DMU set to run May2011 to Dec 2011, which ATW immediately took a franchise set & rented it back to itself.

IWJ also stated WAG1 via Crewe was also a short term measure when it started. Looks like all will be revealed from December timetable

 

[jones_bangor]

You are correct in your understanding, IWJ the then Minister for rail made a statement in March/April last year, saying WAG2 175 via Wrexham would run from May to December 2011 and ATW had been given £3.5 millions to acquire stock for a loco hauled set to run via Wrexham from the Dec 2011 timetable.
£650K was given to ATW to acquire a DMU set to run May2011 to Dec 2011, which ATW immediately took a franchise set & rented it back to itself.

IWJ also stated WAG1 via Crewe was also a short term measure when it started. Looks like all will be revealed from December timetable

We know all that, but I'm interested to know whether Arriva actually did rent any extra DMUs (maybe a 14x class / 150 from somewhere)?

If it is the Cargo - D carriages that are used (we know they're through wired for push-pull), will they need much refurbishment? They looked in good nick in WSMR days.

The loss of the Crewe connectivity from WAG 1 southbound won't be an issue, as it's closely followed by the Virgin train.

 

[merlodlliw]

We know all that, but I'm interested to know whether Arriva actually did rent any extra DMUs (maybe a 14x class / 150 from somewhere)?

If it is the Cargo - D carriages that are used (we know they're through wired for push-pull), will they need much refurbishment? They looked in good nick in WSMR days.

The loss of the Crewe connectivity from WAG 1 southbound won't be an issue, as it's closely followed by the Virgin train.

Appreciate we know what Ministers have said, but some may not that follow the thread.
As for the Cargo D carriages,they were in good condition over a year ago.
Crewe has a 30 minutes departure from Chester,so will effect a good few who use the Wag to Crewe, but that's not a problem I agree.
As for the 150s I don't know, but there are certainly a good few used now on the Cardiff to Holyhead run.
We had a change of Minister last year,with new ideas & the delayed strategic report did not help either, but the new budget from April will have to cover the hire of the 175 and the 67s on Gerald which I did not pick up,so creative accounting is no doubt the order of the day.

Bob

 

[Rhydgaled]

We know all that, but I'm interested to know whether Arriva actually did rent any extra DMUs (maybe a 14x class / 150 from somewhere)?

I don't think so, I expect somebody would have reported something like that on this forum if that was the case. What may have happened I guess is return of one of the subleased 150, meaning ATW (rather than the subleasing TOC) had to pay the leasing bill. All guesses coming from me though, since I have no insider knowlage.

 

[jones_bangor]

I don't think so, I expect somebody would have reported something like that on this forum if that was the case. What may have happened I guess is return of one of the subleased 150, meaning ATW (rather than the subleasing TOC) had to pay the leasing bill. All guesses coming from me though, since I have no insider knowlage.

Interesting, I suppose my post was just based on the fact that you can't just go out and hire a 175, as there are no more.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The loss of the Crewe connectivity from WAG 1 southbound won't be an issue, as it's closely followed by the Virgin train.

Yes it will.
Always full from Chester, most getting off at Crewe.
The gap at Chester is 27 min.

 

[merlodlliw]

Yes it will.
Always full from Chester, most getting off at Crewe.
The gap at Chester is 27 min.

Agree most get off at Crewe when I use it, ATW may put something on from Chester to Crewe, but as Gerald is an OA service, ATW they don't have to,unless of course someone else pays for it to run.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Agree most get off at Crewe when I use it, ATW may put something on from Chester to Crewe, but as Gerald is an OA service, ATW they don't have to,unless of course someone else pays for it to run.

Pre-Gerald, Chester-Crewe was 0630, 0700, 0715VT, 0730, the middle two from the coast.
Now we have 0626VT, 0643, 0708 (Gerald), 0735VT, with all but the 0643 from the coast.

If Gerald is diverted there will be a big gap (and fewer trains than pre-Gerald).
Putting Gerald on saved ATW running the 0700 ex CTR.
Gerald is genuinely an extra in the other direction, although it is closely followed from Crewe all the way to Holyhead by a VT service.

 

[merlodlliw]

Pre-Gerald, Chester-Crewe was 0630, 0700, 0715VT, 0730, the middle two from the coast.
Now we have 0626VT, 0643, 0708 (Gerald), 0735VT, with all but the 0643 from the coast.

If Gerald is diverted there will be a big gap (and fewer trains than pre-Gerald).
Putting Gerald on saved ATW running the 0700 ex CTR.
Gerald is genuinely an extra in the other direction, although it is closely followed from Crewe all the way to Holyhead by a VT service.

Yes it was always a FREQUENT service when ATW took it over,well spotted & another reason for ATW pushing for the WAG via Crewe.
The key morning services from Chester are Liverpool,Manchester,London,Crewe,

 

[jones_bangor]

Yes it was always a FREQUENT service when ATW took it over,well spotted & another reason for ATW pushing for the WAG via Crewe.
The key morning services from Chester are Liverpool,Manchester,London,Crewe,

Wrexham, Shrewsbury and Cardiff................

 

[merlodlliw]

Wrexham, Shrewsbury and Cardiff................

Perhaps I should have said most passenger used key services from Chester in the mornings.

 

[jones_bangor]

Perhaps I should have said most passenger used key services from Chester in the mornings.

I thought there was a suppressed demand for Chester - Wrexham & vice-versa services.

 

[Gareth Marston]

bad day for 175 reliability today?

2 3 car 175's in sidings at Shrewsbury when i arrived at 0925 and I found a 150 -252 on the 0914 to CDF (0628 ex HHD) running late. I got on that and thankfully sat at a table so had leg room.

WG1 was 70% full this evening though by accents i think a fair few were getting off at Crewe and Chester after Shrewsbury. Looks like the 67 haulage has brought out the gricers..
1721 CDF to HHD was noticeably less busy 3 car 175 about 40% full at Shrewsbury.

1638 HHD to CDf this evening was 150256 ,158832 & 158823.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Station usage figures are now out for 2010/11 from ORR: http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/server/show/nav.1529

Local figures are up across the board, but not that much.
Chester 2%, Wrexham 5%, Salop 3%,
Flint 10%, Rhyl 5%, LLJ 4%, Bangor 7%

Figures at Holyhead (30%) are up strongly due to the Icelandic volcano incident.

Some other regions report much higher increases (eg Euston 13%) with 10% being typical.
Cardiff Central 4%

 

[jones_bangor]

WG1 was 70% full this evening though by accents i think a fair few were getting off at Crewe and Chester after Shrewsbury.

Accents as a measure of passenger travelling intentions...certainly a new one.

At least it's confirmation of the demand for the extra services.

 

[Michael.Y]

A 175 failed at Leominster this morning on the early CDF-MAN service, and was dragged back down later on (I think I saw it go past us at around about 12:30pm ish....).

1638 HHD to CDf this evening was 150256 ,158832 & 158823.

Not quite. Only 150256 and 158832 were in use - the 150 was flying solo CDF-CHE, whereupon we gained 158832* for the run to HHD and back. We then were hooked up to 158823** (which only had one engine working) to drag back to CDF with us. Unfortunately its door hazard light wouldn't go out at Hereford so we all had to detrain (yes, even lil ol me and my trolley) at 21:00 and were put onto the next one, 175001, the 20:45 HFD-Carmarthen service.

* refurb
**non refurb Arriva livery

 

[The Informer]

bad day for 175 reliability today?

2 3 car 175's in sidings at Shrewsbury when i arrived at 0925 and I found a 150 -252 on the 0914 to CDF (0628 ex HHD) running late. I got on that and thankfully sat at a table so had leg room.

WG1 was 70% full this evening though by accents i think a fair few were getting off at Crewe and Chester after Shrewsbury. Looks like the 67 haulage has brought out the gricers..
1721 CDF to HHD was noticeably less busy 3 car 175 about 40% full at Shrewsbury.

1638 HHD to CDf this evening was 150256 ,158832 & 158823.

Was 1W07 that failed. SLW was requested but don't know if it was put in operation.

 

[merlodlliw]

I thought there was a suppressed demand for Chester - Wrexham & vice-versa services.

There is. The stations I quoted are the most passengers used destinations in the mornings from Chester today, the electrics are the busiest.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Accents as a measure of passenger travelling intentions...certainly a new one.

At least it's confirmation of the demand for the extra services.

Of course there is demand for extra services, without the frills, seeing how many 150s are in use, I would use a loco hauled.
I still think it is wrong to have the 175 set sat in Canton for six hours with such a shortage of stock
With diesel at record prices, more will use the railway.

 

[Squaddie]

WG1 was 70% full this evening though by accents i think a fair few were getting off at Crewe and Chester after Shrewsbury.

That is quite possible, of course, even though it's nothing more than wild speculation. But as you have no way of knowing how many people may have boarded at Crewe or Chester, or at north coast stations, I don't think this really supports your bizarre campaign against this train service.

I still think it is wrong to have the 175 set sat in Canton for six hours with such a shortage of stock.

It's been a few days since you mentioned that; I thought you'd given up the campaign there for a moment, Bob.

 

[merlodlliw]

That is quite possible, of course, even though it's nothing more than wild speculation. But as you have no way of knowing how many people may have boarded at Crewe or Chester, or at north coast stations, I don't think this really supports your bizarre campaign against this train service.It's been a few days since you mentioned that; I thought you'd given up the campaign there for a moment, Bob.

Gareth is talking about the down Wag ,as for the 175, in my opinion to take a 175 out of service for six hours for no reason is ridiculous with such a shortage of stock on franchise routes, yesterday was an example of no spares.

Bob

 

[Gareth Marston]

That is quite possible, of course, even though it's nothing more than wild speculation. But as you have no way of knowing how many people may have boarded at Crewe or Chester, or at north coast stations, I don't think this really supports your bizarre campaign against this train service.It's been a few days since you mentioned that; I thought you'd given up the campaign there for a moment, Bob.

Wasn't aware I campaigned against it merely observed it. The observations were that it was (northbound yesterday):

1. relatively busy
2. had gricers on it because of the 67
3. Many of the people in business attire on it were clearly not from North Wales - as well as listening to them speak when they get their paperwork, laptops and staff passes out it becomes obvious.

It perhaps shows there some demand for genuine express timed services between the North West and Cardiff.

 

[jones_bangor]

It perhaps shows there some demand for genuine express timed services between the North West and Cardiff.

I'm glad you accept that people from North West Wales need fast links to Cardiff.

 

[Michael.Y]

Further to my earlier information that the Wrexham-routed 67+DVT operation is to commence in December, I have now heard from another source that it will actually be at the September timetable change, and will involve Mark3 refurbished coaching stock.

We wait with baited breath.

 

[tbtc]

Local figures are up across the board, but not that much

Chester 2%

Slightly surprising given the recent increase in Liverpool services during this time?

I'm glad you accept that people from North West Wales need fast links to Cardiff.

I'm sure a handful do, yes