WAG Express discussion

[merlodlliw]

I asked before on this thread for evidence of private sector investment that this expensive link has created. There was no reply, funnily enough...

Local politicians certainly have some grand ideas don't they[/QUOTE] TBTC

I have never seen any evidence of any Private Sector investment created this year or last year as a result of the Open Access WAG Ex1 £2millions plus PA , Wag2 £625KHalf year,Wagair £1.5 million pa.

Yet look at this Private Investment from Mid Wales to Wrexham without the above WG trains & Planes http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-16315940

 

[jones_bangor]

I asked before on this thread for evidence of private sector investment that this expensive link has created. There was no reply, funnily enough...

Local politicians certainly have some grand ideas don't they

Well that would be a very difficult thing to tease out!

Local politicians? Is that how you see members of Wales' law making National Assembly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yet look at this Private Investment from Mid Wales to Wrexham without the above WG trains & Planes http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-16315940

Sorry...have I missed something here? Has someone pulled up the tracks into and out of Wrexham!????? Because when I last checked, I'm sure Wrexham enjoyed direct links to North Wales, Chester, Birmingham, Cardiff and Euston.....

 

[tbtc]

Well that would be a very difficult thing to tease out!

Local politicians? Is that how you see members of Wales' law making National Assembly.

Well, if the whole justification for this service is to enhance links between north and south Wales, but there's no evidence of any private sector growth that its created then I'm wondering what the point of it is...

The Assembly clearly has delusions of grandeur.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I asked before on this thread for evidence of private sector investment that this expensive link has created. There was no reply, funnily enough...

Local politicians certainly have some grand ideas don't they

TBTC

I have never seen any evidence of any Private Sector investment created this year or last year as a result of the Open Access WAG Ex1 £2millions plus PA , Wag2 £625KHalf year,Wagair £1.5 million pa.

Yet look at this Private Investment from Mid Wales to Wrexham without the above WG trains & Planes http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-16315940[/QUOTE]

Theres WG money in the Wrexham factory apparently.

 

[jones_bangor]

Well, if the whole justification for this service is to enhance links between north and south Wales, but there's no evidence of any private sector growth that its created then I'm wondering what the point of it is...

The Assembly clearly has delusions of grandeur.

Connectivity? There would need to be a detailed study. Not one off examples....


The Assembly has aspirations, that's not delusional - it's what politicians are meant to do.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Hard evidence of an ATW DVT! Unless that's a photoshop of course.

For all that think there is an over-provision of Holyhead - Cardiff services, I wonder if the Cardiff - Chester section of the 2-hourly Cardiff - Holyhead slows could be combined with some Shrewsbury - Crewe and Crewe - Chester into a curciular route. So:

Cardiff - Shrewsbury - Wrexham - Chester - Crewe - Shrewsbury​

Shrewsbury - Crewe - Chester - Wrexham - Shreswbury - Cardiff​

or:

Cardiff - Shrewsbury - Wrexham - Chester - Crewe - Shrewsbury - Cardiff​

Cardiff - Shrewsbury - Crewe - Chester - Wrexham - Shreswbury - Cardiff​

That would give Wrexham a direct link to Crewe instead of Holyhead (although, as I have said, I think between 1 and 3 daily Holyhead-Cardiff express services should continue to operate, each way, and at weekends too). It'd probablly need more rolling stock, but ATW has plenty of mark 2s. It just needs WAG to use some of the windfalls recently recived from Westminster from the Olympics and autumn statement to fit some diesel locos with TDM and get hold of the mark 2 DBSOs or more DVTs (the DBSOs are probablly cheaper to operate since they can carry passengers).

WAG should scrap Ieaun Air to provide some more revenue funding for rail too, but I'd suggest that other lines in Wales need improvment more than the marches.

 

[Michael.Y]

Hard evidence of an ATW DVT! Unless that's a photoshop of course.

Can I just say... YUMMY.

 

[merlodlliw]

TBTC

I have never seen any evidence of any Private Sector investment created this year or last year as a result of the Open Access WAG Ex1 £2millions plus PA , Wag2 £625KHalf year,Wagair £1.5 million pa.

Yet look at this Private Investment from Mid Wales to Wrexham without the above WG trains & Planes http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-16315940

Theres WG money in the Wrexham factory apparently.[/QUOTE]

Of course there is money in the Wrexham factory, WG own it my point was,following TBTCs request,neither the WG open access trains or its airline had any involvement in the extra jobs in Wrexham.
WG doing its job in gaining employment is fine,thats what it should be doing.

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
WAG should scrap Ieaun Air to provide some more revenue funding for rail too, but I'd suggest that other lines in Wales need improvment more than the marches.[/QUOTE]

Fully agree,as do most in Wales,but IWJ signed the 4 year contract which would have to be bought out,unless like before the airline goes bust,

 

[Rhydgaled]

Fully agree,as do most in Wales,but IWJ signed the 4 year contract which would have to be bought out,unless like before the airline goes bust,

By that I meant stopping it when the contract expires, but the new transport plan seems to include renewal of the airline's contract, with a larger aircraft after 2014/15.

 

[merlodlliw]

By that I meant stopping it when the contract expires, but the new transport plan seems to include renewal of the airline's contract, with a larger aircraft after 2014/15.

That was IWJ idea, yesterdays man, WAGAIR will be gone in the next Assembly elections. Its only a tourist flight of fancy now.
Having spoken to A,Ms from all parties, none support it, even Plaid at its Annual meeting in Aberyswyth if I recall, had a motion carried to scrap it.

Bob

 

[Rhydgaled]

That was IWJ idea, yesterdays man, WAGAIR will be gone in the next Assembly elections. Its only a tourist flight of fancy now.
Having spoken to A,Ms from all parties, none support it, even Plaid at its Annual meeting in Aberyswyth if I recall, had a motion carried to scrap it.

But why is a capacity increase for it still in the transport plan? Makes no sense to me given Ieaun is the only one who supposedly wants it (and isn't he the biggest user of the flights too?)

 

[jones_bangor]

Hard evidence of an ATW DVT! Unless that's a photoshop of course.

Looks great...that's going to be a smart train!

By that I meant stopping it when the contract expires, but the new transport plan seems to include renewal of the airline's contract, with a larger aircraft after 2014/15.

!!??!! bigger planes!?

I think WG are worried about the future of Cardiff Airport....it seems to be losing a lot of its business to Bristol Airport as air travel declines.

 

[merlodlliw]

But why is a capacity increase for it still in the transport plan? Makes no sense to me given Ieaun is the only one who supposedly wants it (and isn't he the biggest user of the flights too?)

No sense at all, one wonders why Bristol/Liverpool & Manchester airports are so successful, perhaps its professionals & not politicians who run them.

 

[Greenback]

Looks great...that's going to be a smart train!



!!??!! bigger planes!?

I think WG are worried about the future of Cardiff Airport....it seems to be losing a lot of its business to Bristol Airport as air travel declines.

Cardiff Airport is probably losing business because Bristol is better - better facilties, better organised, and better run.

 

[merlodlliw]

Cardiff Airport is probably losing business because Bristol is better - better facilties, better organised, and better run.

I would agree with that.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Cardiff Airport is probably losing business because Bristol is better - better facilties, better organised, and better run.

We don't have that many services from Cardiff Airport either to be honest. In act, it's not even in Cardiff, it's in Rhoose which is twelve miles south-west!

 

[merlodlliw]

We don't have that many services from Cardiff Airport either to be honest. In act, it's not even in Cardiff, it's in Rhoose which is twelve miles south-west!

Manchester Int, is also about 12 miles from Manchester at Ringway,but as become number three in the UK. Its catchment. area is huge, I note all after noon today Xmas Day, Cardiff only has two departures & three arrivals,
whereas Manchester has 12 of each.
I only make a comparison as ATW serve each City airport.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Manchester Int, is also about 12 miles from Manchester at Ringway,but as become number three in the UK. Its catchment. area is huge, I note all after noon today Xmas Day, Cardiff only has two departures & three arrivals,
whereas Manchester has 12 of each.
I only make a comparison as ATW serve each City airport.

Manchester Airport, although being twelve miles from Manchester city ecenrre, is still in the Greater Manchester county itself. Cardiff Airport is actually in the Vale of Glamorgan. I know Heathrow is in the London Borough of Hillingdon.

Yes, Manchester has three different operators serving the station, Cardiff only has 1tph because it's so quiet! :P

 

[4SRKT]

Manchester Airport, although being twelve miles from Manchester city ecenrre, is still in the Greater Manchester county itself.

Quite a pendantic distinction, not least because there has been no such county as Greater Manchester since 1986. A catchment area is determined by where people live, not which local authority area something is in.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Quite a pendantic distinction, not least because there has been no such county as Greater Manchester since 1986. A catchment area is determined by where people live, not which local authority area something is in.

Its actually classified as being in the City of Manchester.

 

[IanXC]

Its funny how many people forget the "and Borders" part of the Wales & Borders franchise.

Sorry but I used to work for Wales and Borders and when ATW took over the franchise they lost the London, Liverpool and Bristol work to confine the franchise to mainly wales - the Wales and Borders franchise is history and it is now Arriva Trains Wales and it is a Welsh franchise

I think the current Manchester services should be clipped of their westerly routes at Cardiff and transferred to the Cross Country franchise. There is clearly an issue with governance of (primarily) this route, and the service itself would clearly benefit from a service level more akin to Intercity.

 

[merlodlliw]

Its actually classified as being in the City of Manchester.

Not that it makes any difference, before Greater Manchester, the airport was in Cheshire, now East Cheshire, some of the planning still comes under East Cheshire,

 

[ValleyLines142]

Not that it makes any difference, before Greater Manchester, the airport was in Cheshire, now East Cheshire, some of the planning still comes under East Cheshire,

Yeah, I much prefer Manchester Airport to ours!

 

[jones_bangor]

I think the current Manchester services should be clipped of their westerly routes at Cardiff and transferred to the Cross Country franchise. There is clearly an issue with governance of (primarily) this route, and the service itself would clearly benefit from a service level more akin to Intercity.

An ideal route for ATW to run a rake similar to the Gerald stock.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I think the current Manchester services should be clipped of their westerly routes at Cardiff and transferred to the Cross Country franchise. There is clearly an issue with governance of (primarily) this route, and the service itself would clearly benefit from a service level more akin to Intercity.

Are you saying that the hourly Cardiff-Manchester service operated by Arriva should be cut??

 

[IanXC]

Are you saying that the hourly Cardiff-Manchester service operated by Arriva should be cut??

Not at all.

I am suggesting that the current ATW service from Cardiff (and points west of Cardiff) to Manchester should be removed from the Wales and Borders franchise and placed with the Cross Country franchise.

I am also suggesting that, probably at the same time as electrification, the Manchester services should all terminate at Cardiff with journeys west of Cardiff continuing to be with the Wales and Borders franchise.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Not at all.

I am suggesting that the current ATW service from Cardiff (and points west of Cardiff) to Manchester should be removed from the Wales and Borders franchise and placed with the Cross Country franchise.

I am also suggesting that, probably at the same time as electrification, the Manchester services should all terminate at Cardiff with journeys west of Cardiff continuing to be with the Wales and Borders franchise.

Ah I get you. Sounds like a plan! Would love more Voyagers at Cardiff!

 

[HSTEd]

I would think that if the trains were to be transferred to a different franchise they should be folded in with the current Manchester-Scotland trains, the route via Crewe would enable a stop at Manchester Airport to be retained.

 

[merlodlliw]

More info according to Charlie Hume of the return to North Wales of ex VT DVTs
in this weeks http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

I am sure Charlie is correct, I only recall the three HSTs when VT took over,perhaps he means the six loco hauled prior to the HSTs which replaced them in BR Days, ready for privatisation.
At least the silly idea by BR of running the HSTs to St Pancras was dropped,
any thoughts from our Mold area correspondent.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Quite a pedantic distinction, not least because there has been no such county as Greater Manchester since 1986. A catchment area is determined by where people live, not which local authority area something is in.

Manchester Airport is owned by the ten local authority areas within the area administered by TfGM (Transport for Greater Manchester) and GMCA (Greater Manchester Combined Authority). Greater Manchester is still used as a generic name for this area by such bodies within their official names.