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Wabtec Awarded Contract For £60M Class 321 Refurbishment Project.

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59CosG95

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You could well be right, I'm just wondering how an AC unit can attach to 2 DC ones.

They've only changed the traction package so that the motors/traction converters now run on IGBT Inverters as opposed to the old thyristor-based system. I'm sure they've built compatibility into the fleet to allow the new to work with the old & vice-versa, building on experience from SWT's similar retractioning programme for the 455s.
 
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Wivenswold

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They've only changed the traction package so that the motors/traction converters now run on IGBT Inverters as opposed to the old thyristor-based system. I'm sure they've built compatibility into the fleet to allow the new to work with the old & vice-versa, building on experience from SWT's similar retractioning programme for the 455s.

All very clever, I didn't realise that was possible.
 

captainbigun

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They've only changed the traction package so that the motors/traction converters now run on IGBT Inverters as opposed to the old thyristor-based system. I'm sure they've built compatibility into the fleet to allow the new to work with the old & vice-versa, building on experience from SWT's similar retractioning programme for the 455s.

Sort of...

Everything, starting with the VCB, ending at the traction motors has been replaced. In order to ensure compatibility the acceleration rate of the re-tractioned units is matched to the DC drive units.
 

Silverlink

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I heard a rumour that two class 321's might be transferring to London Midland from Greater Anglia? Would be great if this was to happen!!
 

Wivenswold

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It's not beyond the realms of possibility that some of the Class 321 Renatus units will be considered for LM as they will be an upgrade from the 319s there currently but they're not off lease until later in 2019.

Some of the ex-GN ones will be surplus once Refresh and Renatus projects are finished but that's got some way to go yet. I'll be surprised if you get any of the GA ones until we're finished with them, given the amount being spent on refreshes and refurbs.
 

jopsuk

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The Renatus 321s (and the light modification 317s) will surely be the last of the mark 3 units to be displaced by the 720s. After all, they're 2020 compliant.
 

Bletchleyite

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Really...? I thought LM got rid of its 321s ;)

Only because it made sense to swap them for 319s because the 321s could be reduced easily to 3 car for Scottish use, as one coach is a completely "dead" trailer, whereas on a 319 that coach contains the compressor.

The appalling reliability of the 319s would make swapping them for something else (particularly Renatus spec 321s with the upgraded interior) quite sensible.
 

Wivenswold

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The Renatus 321s (and the light modification 317s) will surely be the last of the mark 3 units to be displaced by the 720s. After all, they're 2020 compliant.

The Franchise agreement sets out the dates on which the Class 321s go off lease:

31st October 2019 non-renatus units.
1st December 2019 for the Renatus ones.

The final 8 317's go off lease before Easter 2020.

The 360s and 379s go off lease the following August but may go sooner if the Stadler units settle in quickly.
 
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capital12

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Not sure if posted anywhere else but 321448 is in bits at Doncaster at moment!
Two coaches (a driving and intermediate, but separated) visible from the platform.
 

samuelmorris

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Finally got my first ride on an actual Renatus unit today (not 448), was really beginning to think it'd never happen. The noise level difference between these and the other 321s is night and day, they aren't quite as quiet as current new EMUs but they're very close. The doors not continuously rattling on 448 meant that acoustically it was quite a pleasant experience. There's still the bang when other units pass but it does look as if some attempt has been made to improve this - the doors actually shut properly now, whereas they very rarely do on the regular 321s. Time will tell how long that lasts.

The same duff PIS is still being used I see, though it was working on 321321 this evening. The seating is much firmer than that on regular 321s, but is at least the correct upright angle and height. Comfortable enough, but definitely not bucking the current trend for hard seats.

The A/C was welcome today, but honestly, was really a bit on the feeble side. Taking a full minute to come back on after neutral sections doesn't help but even then, I was on the unit for 35 minutes, boarded the train covered in sweat from my earlier journey and hadn't quite cooled down to a comfortable temperature by the time I arrived at Shenfield. There was also no sensation of getting off the train to find it warmer outside, even though it was quite a warm day. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say the internal temperature was around 24-25 degrees rather than the 21-22 A/C systems are normally set to. It's easy to see why this system isn't proving satisfactory, but nonetheless it was still far better than relying on open windows on a day like today. During the heatwave earlier in the month, though? I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.

The overall fit and finish of the train seems quite nice at first glance, overall the interior has been updated pretty well to look modern despite the age of the unit itself and I think this has been done better than, say, SWT's refurbishments of their Mk3 EMUs, predominantly because it doesn't turn them into obviously Metro-oriented units, though no carpets does mean that isn't entirely absent. Look closer though and you can see from the slightly ill-fitting panels, unsmoothed patches of sealant, exposed screwheads and the like, the job has definitely been done at low cost.

Fundamentally I'd much rather travel on one of these than a regular 321, so arguably they've done their job. There is no denying, however, that at this stage in the franchise, short of an absolute disaster with the 720s, it is too little, too late. I look forward to seeing these units more regularly, for the very brief period they form any real part of the GEML fleet.
 

F Great Eastern

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Got a ride on one as well, perhaps event he same one as you and have to say that they are certainly overall an improvement on their previous guise and in that respects they have done their job.

The seats are certainly better, decent angle and height compared to the old ones which were terrible for that, even if I still think the padding and the firmness of the FGE Green seats is still the most comfortable we've seen.

I was disappointed with the finish and what appeared to be a few cut corners, which were not apparent on the photos but were when you actually used one, the AC was crap on my unit too, it seems very weak or is simply not turned to a cold enough setting or at a high enough intensity, opening windows on original 321 did the job better.

So is it an improvement? Generally yes, it's moved forward in quite a few areas, some haven't been touched, others are maybe slightly worse, but overall you have to say they've done a n adequate to fairly good job with this and it does make the train feel much newer than it actually is.

Got to say though, it doesn't come as close to a 360 as I was expecting.
 

EssexGonzo

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Finally got my first ride on an actual Renatus unit today (not 448), was really beginning to think it'd never happen. The noise level difference between these and the other 321s is night and day, they aren't quite as quiet as current new EMUs but they're very close. The doors not continuously rattling on 448 meant that acoustically it was quite a pleasant experience. There's still the bang when other units pass but it does look as if some attempt has been made to improve this - the doors actually shut properly now, whereas they very rarely do on the regular 321s. Time will tell how long that lasts.

The same duff PIS is still being used I see, though it was working on 321321 this evening. The seating is much firmer than that on regular 321s, but is at least the correct upright angle and height. Comfortable enough, but definitely not bucking the current trend for hard seats.

The A/C was welcome today, but honestly, was really a bit on the feeble side. Taking a full minute to come back on after neutral sections doesn't help but even then, I was on the unit for 35 minutes, boarded the train covered in sweat from my earlier journey and hadn't quite cooled down to a comfortable temperature by the time I arrived at Shenfield. There was also no sensation of getting off the train to find it warmer outside, even though it was quite a warm day. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say the internal temperature was around 24-25 degrees rather than the 21-22 A/C systems are normally set to. It's easy to see why this system isn't proving satisfactory, but nonetheless it was still far better than relying on open windows on a day like today. During the heatwave earlier in the month, though? I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.

The overall fit and finish of the train seems quite nice at first glance, overall the interior has been updated pretty well to look modern despite the age of the unit itself and I think this has been done better than, say, SWT's refurbishments of their Mk3 EMUs, predominantly because it doesn't turn them into obviously Metro-oriented units, though no carpets does mean that isn't entirely absent. Look closer though and you can see from the slightly ill-fitting panels, unsmoothed patches of sealant, exposed screwheads and the like, the job has definitely been done at low cost.

Fundamentally I'd much rather travel on one of these than a regular 321, so arguably they've done their job. There is no denying, however, that at this stage in the franchise, short of an absolute disaster with the 720s, it is too little, too late. I look forward to seeing these units more regularly, for the very brief period they form any real part of the GEML fleet.

I was on this same unit in the morning peak for 25 minutes and I agree - a nice improvement.

I agree about the temperature - but I think this might be something to do with where GA set the thermostat rather than the system's capabilities. I always find the 360s too warm as well, especially after a brisk 12 minutes walk to the station in anything other than cold weather.

Could anyone shed light on this? Do GA set their units at a higher temperature to save money?
 

Wivenswold

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Maybe a legacy from when they were introduced in 2003. Loads of complaints about them being too cold, which they weren't.
 

samuelmorris

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1838 LST - IPS yesterday, for what its worth.

I was never expecting the units to match 360 standards, particularly without carpets, but yes they're certainly better in that regard, particularly with the rattling door issue from 448 seemingly rectified (even if not the noise when other trains pass).

Honestly I find the A/C on the 360s is fine. If the system was set so cool to provide instantaneous relief when you boarded on a hot day, passengers sitting on the units for 80 odd minutes to Clacton would be far too cold, so I understand the system being set at a sensible level, but despite that I did feel that the A/C on 321321 yesterday was inadequate, certainly compared to the 345 I rode last month, and that too was subtle compared to the A/C on the S stock.
 

Mordac

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1838 LST - IPS yesterday, for what its worth.

I was never expecting the units to match 360 standards, particularly without carpets, but yes they're certainly better in that regard, particularly with the rattling door issue from 448 seemingly rectified (even if not the noise when other trains pass).

Honestly I find the A/C on the 360s is fine. If the system was set so cool to provide instantaneous relief when you boarded on a hot day, passengers sitting on the units for 80 odd minutes to Clacton would be far too cold, so I understand the system being set at a sensible level, but despite that I did feel that the A/C on 321321 yesterday was inadequate, certainly compared to the 345 I rode last month, and that too was subtle compared to the A/C on the S stock.

If the AC on a 360s isn't hot enough, it must be because it's set too low, as Desiros normally have great noisy AC doing a stellar job of cooling things down.
 

F Great Eastern

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Seems we were on the same train, one of those rare instances I get on at Stratford, rarely get that train, so a stroke of luck!

I didn't expect them to match 360s standards either, but the original photos I saw in the publicity run made me think that the 321s would be slightly closer than they were to the 360s, but on riding one and being in one, they're a little further off for the reasons that Samuel outlined.

I never had any problems with the 360s to be honest when it comes to air-conditioning, the system may be a little loud but after being on one hundreds of times it just fades into the background and you learn to ignore it, never seems to fail either, not been on a single train without it working!

Certainly they can go colder than they are currently - 2003 there was a few complaints, but people were just not used to a good functioning A/C and when something like that is introduced people always take a time to adjust etc.

I hope they get a farewell tour or something when they bow out, because for a large amount of the Anglia region they are the only modern stock that people have ever got to use and they were really a big transformation over what they replaced and it seems wrong to think they are already 15 years old!
 

Wivenswold

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I agree. 360's are superb units, apart from the single toilet being out of use due to a full tank,but that's not a design fault, first/NX/Aga should have installed cess facilities on running lines at termini.
 

IanXC

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I agree. 360's are superb units, apart from the single toilet being out of use due to a full tank,but that's not a design fault, first/NX/Aga should have installed cess facilities on running lines at termini.

You want the toilets emptied in the station platforms?!

Talk about do not flush while in a station!
 

Wivenswold

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Haha, yep. Hythe would be perfect, it usually stinks from the nearby poo factory.
 

F Great Eastern

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I was only at Hythe once, had 15 minutes till a train, popped into the Tesco and missed the train because the barriers were down for 5 mins straight and though the place had a strange odor, now I know why.
 

dp21

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Could anyone shed light on this? Do GA set their units at a higher temperature to save money?

No, it's simply because the air con that was procured by a certain company is rubbish.

One of the reasons these things have been delayed so much is due to problems (details of which I've not been made privy) with the air con.
 
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