Vulnerability of air travel to thunderstorms

[johncrossley]

What happens in tropical areas such as Florida where thunderstorms are a regular occurrence? How can you plan flight schedules if weather regularly affects flights?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Best is to avoid thunderstorms wherever possible. So, options would include re-routing / flying around them, temporarily grounding the flights, diverting to another airport, rescheduling / cancelling. Longer flights may well have an impact on fuel consumption and timings.

As you hint at, flying into and out of places like Florida can be challenging!

 

[johncrossley]

Best is to avoid thunderstorms wherever possible. So, options would include re-routing / flying around them, temporarily grounding the flights, diverting to another airport, rescheduling / cancelling. Longer flights may well have an impact on fuel consumption and timings.

But thunderstorms don't happen at the same time every day. So how can the airline schedule flights in places where thunderstorms occur frequently?

 

[AlterEgo]

That’s like asking how the railway runs a timetable when the signals often fail. You plan the schedule and have a robust IRROPS plan for when it all goes wrong.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Indeed. Hope for the best but plan for the worst, which includes loading a fair bit of additional fuel for the plane to be diverted, if needed, to another nearby (or not so nearby) airfield. As ever with weather related disruption, the fine detail will quite probably only be known days or even hours/minutes beforehand, although the estimated percentage chance of disruption will still be quite high.

Doubt that intensive quick turnaround "Ryanair style" timetabling would ever be possible / practicable in areas such as Florida during the thunderstorm season.

 

[philosopher]

But thunderstorms don't happen at the same time every day. So how can the airline schedule flights in places where thunderstorms occur frequently?

Thunderstorms tend to occur in the afternoon or early evening as the build up of heat over the day causes water to evaporate and clouds to build up which then turn in thunderstorms. So my guess is that at airports prone to thunderstorms such as Miami International or Singapore Changi they try and schedule as many flights as possible in the morning or late evening when the risk of thunderstorm activity is lower

This does mean these airports can’t have the same number of daily departures per runway as an airport with few thunderstorms such as Heathrow and so they have to build more runway capacity as a result.

 

[edwin_m]

Flew into Luton from Portugal late October on a day when there were heavy thunderstorms across Europe. It appeared the airport had just re-opened after closure or at least there were many delayed flights just coming in. We landed without any holding in the air, but there weren't enough buses to bring passengers in, then it took over two hours to get through passports.

Ironically, the previous time I flew into Luton was the day of the suspected drones of Gatwick, when a lot of flights had been diverted there with similar results.

 

[mpthomson]

But thunderstorms don't happen at the same time every day. So how can the airline schedule flights in places where thunderstorms occur frequently?

I flew fairly extensively in SE Asia recently, where there are a lot of thunderstorms. They do mostly happen at the same time of day, they're much more likely in late afternoon into the night than they are in the mornings, so that helps.

There are fewer flights from Singapore in the late afternoon and early evening as this is when the risk is highest, but it's still common for routes to be altered to avoid them. On my flight back from Changi we flew round a number of large storms in the Bay of Bengal (got some great video), and after leaving 30mins late we still arrived at LHR 10 minutes early, so there's some padding in the flight times to take this into account.

 

[Bald Rick]

Doubt that intensive quick turnaround "Ryanair style" timetabling would ever be possible / practicable in areas such as Florida during the thunderstorm season.

Southwest airlines (who Ryaniar copied the business model from) and jet blue seem to do it. They just have delays.

The answer, usually, is to fly around the storms.

 

[Strathclyder]

Reading through this thread reminds me of the story of the near-loss of Loganair Flight 6780 in December 2014, which was struck by lightning on the approach to Sumburgh Airport on a routine flight from Aberdeen. With all the usual caveats, Wikipedia's article on the incident is a good springboard if you've never heard of it until now:

Loganair Flight 6780 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Southwest airlines (who Ryaniar copied the business model from) and jet blue seem to do it. They just have delays.

Ah, Southwest Airlines: if Stagecoach ever did budget airlines...

 

[Cross City]

Ah, Southwest Airlines: if Stagecoach ever did budget airlines...

Southwest are great.

They STILL don't charge for up to two checked bags per person.

 

[Strathclyder]

Southwest are great.

They STILL don't charge for up to two checked bags per person.

Tbf I was mainly basing that off of their livery from 2001 onwards (Canyon Blue and particularly their current Heart livery), which looks like what Stagecoach would've adopted (prior to their own rebrand in the last few years) had they ever gone into the budget airline market.

 

[Cross City]

Tbf I was mainly basing that off of their livery from 2001 onwards (Canyon Blue and particularly their current Heart livery), which looks like what Stagecoach would've adapted (prior to their own rebrand in the last few years) had they ever gone into the budget airline market.

Lol yes fair enough I hadn't noticed that one. I was a big fan of the Canyon Blue.

 

[Sm5]

Ive been on flights struck by lightening several times, Aberdeen, Singapore, Miami, Phoenix, Penang, Joburg and Kuala Lumpur.
i’m still alive to tell the tale, and have two of them on video (as its been a hobby of mine to film takeoffs and landings for decades).

Each time was nothing more than a loud bang, not too different to an industrial circuit breaker tripping… a momentary flash that sticks a fraction of a second, ceases and a loud snap.

First time in Miami we were on the ground having landed, and they held us before ramping the plane. Several times theyve held ramp operations at Miami Phoenix etc for ground staff safety etc, but modern jets just handle it…

The safety advisory recommends reviewing the autopilot design of aircraft certified by the rules of Part 25 and equivalent regulations, including the Saab 2000, and require modification if necessary to ensure that pilots do not pose potential danger when applying forces that conflict with the autopilot

Flt6780 above clearly was pilot error, not aircraft failure. Admittedly the flash of ultra white light is dramatic to see, and in their case it was right in front of them, so maybe disorientating.

Aircraft struck by lightening is a daily occurence.

 

[Mojo]

Southwest are great.

They STILL don't charge for up to two checked bags per person.

They also offer complimentary non-alcoholic drinks and snacks on flights longer than 175 Miles which is better than what you get in Economy on what British Airways classify as their short haul network from Heathrow and Gatwick.

Saying that, for us in Europe who are spoilt for choice by the low cost carriers and the competition with the legacy airlines, if you aren’t used to it you may be shocked how expensive domestic aviation is in the US.

 

[blackfive460]

For anyone interested in the subject of aircraft and lightening strikes, there's an interesting article in the August edition of Plane & Pilot which you can read through your local library via the Libby app on Android devices.

 

[Sm5]

They also offer complimentary non-alcoholic drinks and snacks on flights longer than 175 Miles which is better than what you get in Economy on what British Airways classify as their short haul network from Heathrow and Gatwick.

Saying that, for us in Europe who are spoilt for choice by the low cost carriers and the competition with the legacy airlines, if you aren’t used to it you may be shocked how expensive domestic aviation is in the US.

Domestic aviation in the EU is very cheap as well, it‘s that short stretch over the channel that seems to add a zero to air fares.

Then again consider how much per mike your paying for the IOW ferry too…
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