VTWC Coach K single seats

[Bletchleyite]

So, I have just witnessed a member of VTWC catering crew attempt to turf a passenger out of the rearmost single seat in coach K because it was "his seat" (he was not sitting in it). All of the other single seats were occupied. This was only prevented when I asked him bluntly (but politely) if it was Railway policy that he could save those seats for himself (which it clearly is not; quite the opposite).

What is it with VTWC crews and these seats? They are very attractive seats for those wanting privacy, so to me it is unacceptable for crews to monopolise them, preventing full-fare First Class ticketholders from sitting in them (who are the most likely to want them as coach K is unreserved). In coach K there are also a number of pairs of airline seats which are generally unpopular - why do the crews not instead occupy these?

I have made a complaint to VT about it already (again; I was in the past told that if I sat there I would not receive service). Something really needs to be done about it; treating a paying First Class passenger in that manner is unacceptable.

 

[cf111]

Treating any passenger like that is unacceptable.

 

[All Line Rover]

Not as bad as the single "trolley dolley" on a weekend service wanting the three rearmost seats to themselves on a busy 9 car Pendolino.

I have complained numerous times about Coach K and while, each time, VTWC confirm that the seats are not reserved for staff, nothing changes. Therefore suggesting that VTWC can't control their own catering staff, even though VTWC's revenue department seems to think that Coach K should contain the seating of choice for first class passengers on walk-up tickets.

 

[Mag_seven]

So, I have just witnessed a member of VTWC catering crew attempt to turf a passenger out of the rearmost single seat in coach K because it was "his seat" (he was not sitting in it). All of the other single seats were occupied. This was only prevented when I asked him bluntly (but politely) if it was Railway policy that he could save those seats for himself (which it clearly is not; quite the opposite).

What is it with VTWC crews and these seats? They are very attractive seats for those wanting privacy, so to me it is unacceptable for crews to monopolise them, preventing full-fare First Class ticketholders from sitting in them (who are the most likely to want them as coach K is unreserved). In coach K there are also a number of pairs of airline seats which are generally unpopular - why do the crews not instead occupy these?

I have made a complaint to VT about it already (again; I was in the past told that if I sat there I would not receive service). Something really needs to be done about it; treating a paying First Class passenger in that manner is unacceptable.

On weekdays (when full catering is provided) I have often seen that seat number 3, and the two seats opposite, numbers 1 and 2, NOT set out with cutlery, cups and glasses etc or if they are a "red jacket" is draped over them. This is clearly an attempt by the train crew to "reserve" these seats for their own use. VTWC management should outlaw this practice with any offenders caught doing it disciplined.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Treating any passenger like that is unacceptable.

Indeed, that's why I spoke up. I was already unhappy to see that he had attempted to reserve it with his coat (which by the time the passenger sat there he had moved to the other side), but throwing[1] a full fare First Class passenger out of his seat of choice is not on, however you look at it. Particularly as the rearmost seats (in Standard too) are rather prized by passengers (I've had to argue with a cleaner about the Standard end seats before too, but not half as often as the issue with First Class catering crews at the other end).

I must admit that if I were in charge I would ensure adequately comfortable jumpseats were provided in the kitchen area and strictly prohibit staff from occupying any First Class seats unless they wished to pay the fare.

[1] Politely, but that's beside the point.

 

[AlterEgo]

This kind of thing has been a problem for years. We used to get quite a few complaints about this when I worked for VT, 2011-13.

Not surprised it still goes on. It is completely unacceptable.

 

[All Line Rover]

The same issue exists on the Voyagers (which have a mere 26 first class seats), with catering staff attempting to monopolise the rearmost single seat (E04) and often the adjacent rearmost twin seats (E05 and E06). You're only likely to get E04 if you board before the catering staff arrive.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The same issue exists on the Voyagers (which have a mere 26 first class seats), with catering staff attempting to monopolise the rearmost single seat (E04) and often the adjacent rearmost twin seats (E05 and E06). You're only likely to get E04 if you board before the catering staff arrive.

That's even worse, as if done on a weekend when First Class is busy it could well cost the TOC 25 quid from a lost First Class upgrade. I certainly only tend to upgrade when I can get a unit of seating to myself, and those single seats are a massive selling point. I'd actually pay an additional fee to reserve one; I think it's a shame they are not reservable. And if they were, it would be seat 3 every single time.

 

[dk1]

If there are other seats available, no way would I want to sit in coach K & definatley not near the kitchen. As a member of staff nothing irritated us more than with 2.5 1st class carriages passengers arriving early chose to sit in the seats right behind us on our short break in the RFM (when it was 1st) when dozens of other seats where free. Why they would want to sit so close to staff having a chat & some banter was beyond me. We hardly dared swear or laugh. I'd feel so uncomfortable sitting there. I expect this won't go down well with most on here but that's how most crew feel I've worked with.

 

[bramling]

If there are other seats available, no way would I want to sit in coach K & definatley not near the kitchen. As a member of staff nothing irritated us more than with 2.5 1st class carriages passengers arriving early chose to sit in the seats right behind us on our short break in the RFM (when it was 1st) when dozens of other seats where free. Why they would want to sit so close to staff having a chat & some banter was beyond me. We hardly dared swear or laugh. I'd feel so uncomfortable sitting there. I expect this won't go down well with most on here but that's how most crew feel I've worked with.

At the end of the day, firstly how is the passenger supposed to know these are "poison chalice" seats? Meanwhile, if someone has paid a *lot* of money for a full first-class fare, it is disgusting form to find the choice of seats is taken up by staff - especially when it develops from a couple of seats to wanting the entire carriage empty.

Whilst I'm sympathetic to the reality of staff needing to take breaks, there should be alternative provision for this - a proper segregated staff rest area elsewhere in the carriage. As you say, in any event it's not perfect for staff to be taking breaks in an area frequented by passengers as it means they can't properly relax.

 

[dk1]

At the end of the day, firstly how is the passenger supposed to know these are "poison chalice" seats? Meanwhile, if someone has paid a *lot* of money for a full first-class fare, it is disgusting form to find the choice of seats is taken up by staff.

Unless the train is particular busy I wonder why staff don't place coats etc on these seats to make them look occupied. On these trains I'm talking more about me personally & im sure I'd pick up in the glares from the crew.

 

[Master29]

I`ve often noticed groups of staff monopolising seats in the catering coach on GWR HST`s where there is only 17 (Sometimes 24) 1st class seats. To be fair they don`t normally do this on packed trains so I`m not too bothered by it if I were travelling in it. On one hand who would begrudge a "perk of the job" type attitude if it isn`t upsetting anyone but then again I can see why it would be considered a liberty.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there are other seats available, no way would I want to sit in coach K & definatley not near the kitchen. As a member of staff nothing irritated us more than with 2.5 1st class carriages passengers arriving early chose to sit in the seats right behind us on our short break in the RFM (when it was 1st) when dozens of other seats where free. Why they would want to sit so close to staff having a chat & some banter was beyond me. We hardly dared swear or laugh. I'd feel so uncomfortable sitting there. I expect this won't go down well with most on here but that's how most crew feel I've worked with.

Because I want a single seat.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unless the train is particular busy I wonder why staff don't place coats etc on these seats to make them look occupied. On these trains I'm talking more about me personally & im sure I'd pick up in the glares from the crew.

They do, and because the area contains types of seat not available elsewhere it is not acceptable. I do hope any refurb installs more single airline seats to solve it another way.

If they must sit in passenger accommodation for breaks they should select the airline seat pairs or tables for 4 which are less popular.

 

[AlterEgo]

Unless the train is particular busy I wonder why staff don't place coats etc on these seats to make them look occupied. On these trains I'm talking more about me personally & im sure I'd pick up in the glares from the crew.

They do place coats on the seat in order that full fare ticket holders be discouraged from sitting there.

Are staff rostered to have breaks on the train? If so, appropriate facilities need to be provided. If not, then there is no expectation to be sat down in Coach K bitching about their line manager/girlfriend/rep/whatever.

 

[dk1]

They do place coats on the seat in order that full fare ticket holders be discouraged from sitting there.

Are staff rostered to have breaks on the train? If so, appropriate facilities need to be provided. If not, then there is no expectation to be sat down in Coach K bitching about their line manager/girlfriend/rep/whatever.

We aren't actually booked a PNB on our London 35-40min turnarounds. It's just nice to be able to chill together as a crew for 20mins but even though not advertised, passengers start boarding.

With the coach K situation on Virgin I am just saying that as I know the situation I personally would select any coach rather than K & would feel uncomfortable taking those seats with others available. We all differ with our opinions/reasons.

 

[AlterEgo]

We aren't actually booked a PNB on our London 35-40min turnarounds. It's just nice to be able to chill together as a crew for 20mins but even though not advertised, passengers start boarding.

With the coach K situation on Virgin I am just saying that as I know the situation I personally would select any coach rather than K & would feel uncomfortable taking those seats with others available. We all differ with our opinions/reasons.

I don't sit in K myself because I know it is awkward. However, customers shouldn't feel awkward about disturbing staff. The reservation of seats doesn't end at the dead time in Euston either, as I'm sure you know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If passengers are boarding early, a sensible precaution is to lock the doors. But personally, while I do go to platform ramps early using RTT, I don't board until I see the train appear on the PIS screens, hear it called or see the mob descending. And I think it would be quite reasonable for staff to chuck passengers off who do pre board in that manner, and to do so impolitely if you wish, as they should not be there.

OTOH I like the privacy of a single seat and when I'm paying over the odds for it expect that to be respected by staff. All they need to do is select the unpopular airline pairs on the other side - or if they want privacy to gossip stand in the non-passenger vestibule.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't sit in K myself because I know it is awkward. However, customers shouldn't feel awkward about disturbing staff.

I certainly did not feel awkward about pulling the staff up on it this afternoon. I also put in a complaint to VT about it. Saving the seats is one thing, turfing people out of them when not saved is quite another.

 

[roversfan2001]

On both West and East Coast I've been turfed out (politely, mind) of seats near the kitchen area as "this carriage's air con isn't working". I moved but this hijacking of seats is not acceptable in Standard, never mind First.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As aircon is not a safety issue requiring a coach taking out of service, it would get "I'm fine thanks" from me.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Coach K = staff delegated messroom.
.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I very much enjoyed my K single seat the other week on the East Coast and was thinking on seeking these out again.

I'd love it if they asked me to move, short shrift would be delivered.

 

[MCSHF007]

This can also affect Coach H in EMT Meridians. Whilst OK on less busy trains I do wish that many staff (whether booked to work the train in question or not -many are just travelling to and from Derby or even off duty) would show a little more respect to the First Class "ambience". Staff sitting there when the seats are not required by customers is one thing but loud raucous conversations, cackling and 'estuary language' are completely unacceptable - it's not a messroom after all.

 

[dk1]

Coach K = staff delegated messroom.
.

Just lock the internal sliding door

 

[3141]

This thread stirs a memory....in 2009 or thereabouts I booked an advance first class single from Euston to Manchester on a train leaving at about 21.30. My seat turned out to be a single in coach K, and from memory it was close to the kitchen section. A member of staff suggested I might like to move forward and take one of a group of four seats on the other side of the coach, which would give me a lot more space, he said, and it was unlikely that anyone else would be booked to sit there. He was totally polite about it. But could it have been a dastardly trick to free up that part of the coach for the crew? I very vaguely recall that they did sit in that area for part of the journey. As the ticket had only cost me £16.50 I really didn't mind.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was precisely that reason, yes, and it doesn't respect the fact that some of us like well spaced airline seats.

 

[Segedunum]

I stopped sitting near the staff areas in First Class after a journey on VTEC where two staff members sat and openly had an expletive ridden rant about what they hated about passengers. It was rather uncomfortable and I proceeded to move rather quickly.

 

[Qwerty133]

Can anyone really blame the staff for wanting an area to sit down when they can be on the train for several hours? Also makes sense for it to be at one end of the train, and as standard tends to be much busier than first the first class end makes the most sense. I wonder if it would be worth Virgin issuing staff with 'reserved for staff use only' signs to place on the seats (with the understanding that such signs would be removed if there were no other free seats in first) in order to make the arrangement official.
ETA: I'd much rather that staff took a couple of seats in a passenger area than tried propping their cab door open (and it banging shut every 30 seconds for the entire journey) to talk to their friends sitting in the passenger area, as happened once to me on a XC turbostar.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If any member of staff made me feel uncomfortable on a train because of something like that, I wouldn't hesitate to make a complaint.

Insulting your premium customers is not a good way to keep your job.