VTEC - new onboard crewing system

[gavin]

Other than at King's Cross, where there's two on if you're lucky, aren't the lounges already covered by multi tasking station staff? I can't see what there is to cut.

Pretty much normally you normally find some platform staff at the entrance to check your tickets at the smaller stations it tends to only be the larger stations Kings cross and Edinburgh which have staff inside

 

[Chrism20]

Didn't most of the other stations in the East Coast days have some kind of intercom with a camera on it and you just held up the ticket to get in.

 

[ainsworth74]

Can't say I recall that!

 

[FQTV]

I remember the rolling stock getting to the point that it was bad and stuff used to regularly pack in and the service was maybe reduced.

I don't remember it getting to the point that the first class or standard buffet were reduced to the point that it just didn't happen. From what I remember there was more chance you wouldn't get to your destination than not getting your breakfast.

My hazy teenage memories of it were that crews on trains and staff elsewhere were excillent and it was generally just stock going wrong in 1 way or another.

So, what we could be saying is that, relatively recently, things on the West Coast were so bad that trains didn't even make it to their destinations successfully, and yet we've pretty much forgotten all about it.

And the same company, or marketing department types thereat, have learned from that.

However, they're now regularly failing to deliver some celebrity chef rebranded microwaved Greggs sausage rolls and we think that it's corporate suicide.

I fear that they may be laughing at us. Awesomely.

 

[attics26]

So, what we could be saying is that, relatively recently, things on the West Coast were so bad that trains didn't even make it to their destinations successfully, and yet we've pretty much forgotten all about it.

And the same company, or marketing department types thereat, have learned from that.

However, they're now regularly failing to deliver some celebrity chef rebranded microwaved Greggs sausage rolls and we think that it's corporate suicide.

I fear that they may be laughing at us. Awesomely.

you mention "Greggs" sorry but this a far superior mixed meat, from various several animals in a puff pastry that is so superior, oh wait you still not gonna get it, so it doesnt matter

 

[Blindtraveler]

Say what you like about VTECs onboard Non service but IMO by far their biggest success is the saussage roll. OK not the best they could do for complimentary FC but the fact they rarely run out of this delicacy to the point where they flog them at the foodbar is a good thing. I dont care about the celeb sheff thing but they are actually rather good and without question better than any dubious paistry products in a greggs bag.

 

[Chrism20]

So, what we could be saying is that, relatively recently, things on the West Coast were so bad that trains didn't even make it to their destinations successfully, and yet we've pretty much forgotten all about it.

And the same company, or marketing department types thereat, have learned from that.

However, they're now regularly failing to deliver some celebrity chef rebranded microwaved Greggs sausage rolls and we think that it's corporate suicide.

I fear that they may be laughing at us. Awesomely.

If you are referring to 2004 as relatively recently then yes but tbh I think thirteen years is pushing recently to the limit.

Crewing is the one thing VTWC did not run down, they understood that these people were going to have to deliver the all new singing and dancing service that was going to come along in the near future. What VTEC have done is cut and cut and cut to the point they don't have the manpower to deliver the current service nevermind anything new that's going to come along.

It's not the fact they don't deliver the advertised service that is the issue it's the fact they don't have the complement to make sure you high flyers are finely fed on-board, we’ve created an incredible new and exclusive First Class menu with none other than James Martin. that is the problem.

 

[FQTV]

If you are referring to 2004 as relatively recently then yes but tbh I think thirteen years is pushing recently to the limit.

Crewing is the one thing VTWC did not run down, they understood that these people were going to have to deliver the all new singing and dancing service that was going to come along in the near future. What VTEC have done is cut and cut and cut to the point they don't have the manpower to deliver the current service nevermind anything new that's going to come along.

It's not the fact they don't deliver the advertised service that is the issue it's the fact they don't have the complement to make sure you high flyers are finely fed on-board, we’ve created an incredible new and exclusive First Class menu with none other than James Martin. that is the problem.

The point that I was trying to make was perhaps a little more nuanced.

The relevance of the West Coast experience was that the general public (and perhaps even engaged audiences such as this one) have a capacity to forget and move on. Sometimes they have a remarkable capacity to not even notice (witness the recent East Coast website lunacy).

There was lots about the earlier years of Virgin West Coast that's incomparable to 2017; West Coast was preparing to attempt to conquest huge amounts of business from the airlines; there was little empirical experience of running the newly-privatised services etc., etc.

In 2017, by contrast, there is an almost universal trend towards companies reducing headcounts to the absolute bare minimum, and then staffing with the least possible commitment to those staff - witness zero-hour contracts.

Stagecoach is clearly part of that move, and I am suggesting that this is not Ryanair-esque incompetence. Rather, it's a much more cynical move to minimise costs and liabilities in the run up to IET introduction, and use both the Virgin bluster and the newness of the hard product to continue to run down the 'soft' service.

The sausage roll reference was in the context of the £236 one way EC Only King's Cross to Newcastle Anytime First Single, which is where the real yield (not volume) is. My question is how relevant a sausage roll is to those largely business customers, who have little other choice on a monopoly route.

Trying to encourage incremental discretionary leisure travel to soak up excess and off peak capacity through promotions is fine, but have the big spenders been worn-down in terms of their expectations that they really couldn't care less that there's no sausage roll or dishwater coffee? They'll still need to eat when they get home, and if they're driving then they probably won't have an alcoholic drink either.

A few regular and engaged leisure/Advance users joining them in being generally disgruntled and considering their tickets to be distress purchases can be replaced fairly easily (if expensively) by new customers who respond to the Virgin marketing deluge.

That marketing doesn't touch the sides with the £236 customers though; you won't sell any more of those tickets with sausage roll service and a free B Movie.

What it may do is provide the tracking research answer that Stagecoach might want, which is that there's no value in First other than the seat and they can gradually withdraw it and reduce the headcount again. Of course, they would still want to be charging £236 (pro rata) to those who have little choice but to pay it, and the ticket would just become even more of a distress purchase than it already is.

Yet, in the face of reported financial woes, East Coast seems to think that the route out of the mess is to gouge costs out of the business, bleat to the DfT and to target irregular/infrequent low-yield leisure passengers.

I therefore worry that this isn't going to work out well for anyone.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I already know of a couple of people who have become disgruntled with the lack of ability to eat on an often late train and whilst they are frustrated about losing working time have switched back to air, the main catalist being price and rail delays. The fact the train is now late and foodless, the food being a sweetner for delays being the key factors at play here have made them decide that the money involved is not worth it.

 

[sheff1]

I already know of a couple of people who have become disgruntled with the lack of ability to eat on an often late train and whilst they are frustrated about losing working time have switched back to air, the main catalist being price and rail delays. The fact the train is now late and foodless, the food being a sweetner for delays being the key factors at play here have made them decide that the money involved is not worth it.

I think this is the thinking behind many comments. If you are sat on a late train eating a substantial and well cooked meal, things are not all bad. If you can't even get a small snack on the late train and are getting more and more hungry you will likely to be considering alternatives for the next time ...

... the poster who suggested VTEC have a monoply on the London to Newcastle route seems to have overlooked the air option. At least if your flight is delayed you will be able to eat at the airport.

 

[96tommy]

Didn't most of the other stations in the East Coast days have some kind of intercom with a camera on it and you just held up the ticket to get in.

Only remember this at newcastle. Was the same last time I used it

 

[Emblematic]

I think a few of the conspiracy theorists here are over complicating the issues. This is a franchise in trouble, which seems endemic on the EC route. They admit that they overbid, and are now losing serious money. Their main hope of escape is to renegotiate the franchise premiums, and with delays to rolling stock and infrastructure, they do have a case, as they will have less time to grow the franchise and offset the earlier losses. In the meantime, belt tightening is the order of the day, and if they lose customers along the way, it may even help their case with the DfT. Those missing passengers can be blamed on brexit, terrorism, any number of causes beyond the TOCs control.

 

[FQTV]

I think this is the thinking behind many comments. If you are sat on a late train eating a substantial and well cooked meal, things are not all bad. If you can't even get a small snack on the late train and are getting more and more hungry you will likely to be considering alternatives for the next time ...

... the poster who suggested VTEC have a monoply on the London to Newcastle route seems to have overlooked the air option. At least if your flight is delayed you will be able to eat at the airport.

I meant a rail monopoly. There are buses and cars, too, as well as 'planes and trains. And, for that matter, at lots of stations, you can eat very well during a delay too. It's also a sight easier to take pre-bought food on to a train than it is on to a 'plane.

The point that I am speculating on is that, increasingly, even those who have paid top-whack for their tickets are not sitting there getting increasingly hungry; they have already given up, bought a sandwich at Pret and will have a decent meal when they get home.

And, unless they want to drive (I can't imagine many Anytime First passengers consider the coach) BA only has a maximum of 800 seats each way daily (ie 1.5 times a single 225 set's capacity) between Newcastle and Heathrow.

Their flights can have up to 80% connecting passengers on board, who would not usually consider the train for the domestic part of the journey, and point-to-point fares are managed to maintain availability for lucrative connecting itineraries which may be worth many thousands of pounds.

Which means that, ultimately, whether it's from a price or capacity point of view, the East Coast operator can't lose too many passengers to BA. So those passengers are stuck. Train or car.

Stagecoach, I think, knows this and their current strategy is to take this easy custom, slash costs and liabilities, load £1 cheaper-than-interavailable-operator-only fares to take 100% of the ticket value, and flog some more Advances to get their growth. And go cap-in-hand to the DfT as well.

Customer frustrations with the website, on board catering and even the provision of reliable toilet facilities do not seem to be their priorities for attention.

 

[FQTV]

I think a few of the conspiracy theorists here are over complicating the issues. This is a franchise in trouble, which seems endemic on the EC route. They admit that they overbid, and are now losing serious money. Their main hope of escape is to renegotiate the franchise premiums, and with delays to rolling stock and infrastructure, they do have a case, as they will have less time to grow the franchise and offset the earlier losses. In the meantime, belt tightening is the order of the day, and if they lose customers along the way, it may even help their case with the DfT. Those missing passengers can be blamed on brexit, terrorism, any number of causes beyond the TOCs control.

Very true.

 

[sheff1]

Customer frustrations with the website, on board catering and even the provision of reliable toilet facilities do not seem to be their priorities for attention.

Indeed. Far more interested in shouting about their awesomeness at every opportunity !

 

[Chrism20]

I already know of a couple of people who have become disgruntled with the lack of ability to eat on an often late train and whilst they are frustrated about losing working time have switched back to air, the main catalist being price and rail delays. The fact the train is now late and foodless, the food being a sweetner for delays being the key factors at play here have made them decide that the money involved is not worth it.

Yes I'm fairly sure I fit into that category. My season ticket is £1,195 a month albeit my employer pays half of it. The vast majority of my journeys involve leaving Newcastle heading north after 7pm at night where the service ranges between non-existent and average. So my apologies if I seem to be ranting but at that price I expect what's advertised to be delivered more often than it's not.

 

[FQTV]

Yes I'm fairly sure I fit into that category. My season ticket is £1,195 a month albeit my employer pays half of it. The vast majority of my journeys involve leaving Newcastle heading north after 7pm at night where the service ranges between non-existent and average. So my apologies if I seem to be ranting but at that price I expect what's advertised to be delivered more often than it's not.

I don't think you're ranting at all, and I think that you have every good reason to feel aggrieved.

However, from Stagecoach's point of view:

1. How many season ticket holders are there on your flow?
2. Do you have the option to switch your business conveniently to air?
3. What is your value, and ticket holders like you, to them in gross terms?

I am guessing that on £1,195 ticket, it's Edinburgh to Newcastle, and I am again guessing that there are not many First Class Season ticket holders.

Your only theoretical alternative would really be to drive, and you may not be in a position to do that.

Your revenue contribution assuming 20 roundtrips per month is under £30 each way, and your incremental contribution over the revenue they'd get if you downgraded to Standard is under £12 each way.

I assume that this revenue goes through the Rail Settlement Plan and CrossCountry get a chunk of it.

By contrast, Virgin Trains East Coast operator-only one way Anytime tickets on the route are priced at up to £68.50, according to brfares.com, partially moderated with Advances down to £22.70.

If some or most of the assumptions above are correct, I can see why the operator that you're actually using would almost want to encourage you out of that seat.

I don't like it and I don't agree with it, but reducing staffing, failing to cater and generally succeeding in cheesing you off could actually achieve what they might be trying to aim for.......

 

[Blindtraveler]

There are more EDB NCL seasons than you would think and other than driving Chris has the option of an XC only season which was last time I checked available keenly priced and whilst XC have their faults they are working super hard just now to entice customers off other TOCs and personally speeking its sometimes working, 1 example being last weekend when everything North from Newcastle after 19:45 was bustituted. The XC only ticket provided a much nicer coach, non stop, with toilet, drinks and biscuites and a cheery driver for a STD price. The VTEC bus was slow and not so nice in comparrison and would have got me home later without the chocky bickys.

 

[Frontera2]

Didn't most of the other stations in the East Coast days have some kind of intercom with a camera on it and you just held up the ticket to get in.

Doncaster certainly did, used it regularly

 

[sheff1]

.. whilst XC have their faults they are working super hard just now to entice customers off other TOCs and personally speeking its sometimes working ...

That, and Virgin's apparent disdain for the likes of me, has certainly worked here. Prior to VTEC, I almost invariably changed changed at Doncaster or York if I was going to/from Edinburgh. Nowadays, XC throughout is my option of choice.

 

[Chrism20]

Yep it's an Edinburgh/Newcastle 1st class season so it will be split with XC.

If XC were to do a half hourly service I'd happily switch to the XC only one, however Newcastle Central isn't the best to sit in at night, particularly now that it's starting to get colder so the three services most hours are pretty handy. I don't mind XC at all tbh and will quite happily use their services, I'm also not too averse to the voyagers either whilst their service offering is very consistent.

As Blindtraveler mentioned it's actually pretty surprising how many seasons there are on that stretch of the route. It's not uncommon to see several in first class around where I usually sit. There are two passengers that I see quite regularly.

I should probably also point out that the vast majority of my issues are northbound rather than southbound. There never seems to be the same issues during the morning/lunchtime period as there is in the evenings, however in the mornings the train has another three hours to go before reaching its destination whereas in the opposite direction it's ninety minutes.

 

[ChathillMan]

sorry if i am repeating others . But I got an email from VTEC (via Ipsos) with a survey about the new catering offering they may introduce when the Azuma trains arrives.

My main takeaway from it (pardon the pun) is two course meals offered weekdays throughout the journey not just leaving the Cross. Usual fayre of hot and cold sandwiches etc. Pastries for short hops and bacon rolls on weekends. James Martin being partially sacked off from what i remember.

They may introduce a charge for spirits in First.

In standard they claim they would offer at seat food ordering and then somebody delivers it.

Wished i had taken a few screenshots as the survey had a table of what's on offer with they may offer


Re the general malaise at VTEC as mentioned in previous posts. It is no surprise they are having problem.

They are obviously paying too much to DaFT. VTEC should shoulder some of the blame but how can DaFT expect it any franchisee to maximise return when they allow other Open Access operators on the same line?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[Chrism20]

sorry if i am repeating others . But I got an email from VTEC (via Ipsos) with a survey about the new catering offering they may introduce when the Azuma trains arrives.

My main takeaway from it (pardon the pun) is two course meals offered weekdays throughout the journey not just leaving the Cross. Usual fayre of hot and cold sandwiches etc. Pastries for short hops and bacon rolls on weekends. James Martin being partially sacked off from what i remember.

They may introduce a charge for spirits in First.

In standard they claim they would offer at seat food ordering and then somebody delivers it.

Wished i had taken a few screenshots as the survey had a table of what's on offer with they may offer


Re the general malaise at VTEC as mentioned in previous posts. It is no surprise they are having problem.

They are obviously paying too much to DaFT. VTEC should shoulder some of the blame but how can DaFT expect it any franchisee to maximise return when they allow other Open Access operators on the same line?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Sounds familiar to a questionnaire I got back in the spring, does any of this sound familiar?

 

[ChathillMan]

Sounds familiar to a questionnaire I got back in the spring, does any of this sound familiar?

It was a similar format but reading that it looked like a questionnaire based in the feedback from the one you did

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

[gavin]

The 11:30 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh terminated at Newcastle due to the driver taking ill

The 17:00 Edinburgh to London is starting at Newcastle due to the driver taking ill

The 19:16 Leeds to London is cancelled throughout due to the train manager taking ill

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sounds like someone didnt cook the saussage rolls propperly.

 

[43094]

Those first two are as a result of the same Driver, I believe.

 

[physics34]

The 11:30 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh terminated at Newcastle due to the driver taking ill

The 17:00 Edinburgh to London is starting at Newcastle due to the driver taking ill

The 19:16 Leeds to London is cancelled throughout due to the train manager taking ill

hope the drivers okay and its just the sh*ts or something

 

[xotGD]

sorry if i am repeating others . But I got an email from VTEC (via Ipsos) with a survey about the new catering offering they may introduce when the Azuma trains arrives.

My main takeaway from it (pardon the pun) is two course meals offered weekdays throughout the journey not just leaving the Cross. Usual fayre of hot and cold sandwiches etc. Pastries for short hops and bacon rolls on weekends. James Martin being partially sacked off from what i remember.

They may introduce a charge for spirits in First.

In standard they claim they would offer at seat food ordering and then somebody delivers it.

Wished i had taken a few screenshots as the survey had a table of what's on offer with they may offer


Re the general malaise at VTEC as mentioned in previous posts. It is no surprise they are having problem.

They are obviously paying too much to DaFT. VTEC should shoulder some of the blame but how can DaFT expect it any franchisee to maximise return when they allow other Open Access operators on the same line?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

I answered the same survey. There was also a section asking for views on paying an extra £10 for "Business Standard", where you would get free coffee and there would only be "Business Travellers" (reading between the lines, no screaming Brats or Chavs).

Meanwhile, no trolley this morning due to crew shortage, but the buffet was open immediately upon departure from Skipton.

 

[High Dyke]

Meanwhile, no trolley this morning due to crew shortage, but the buffet was open immediately upon departure from Skipton.

Travelled on VTEC the other week, and found the opposite. no buffet due to 'staff shortage', but a trolley service was available for those in standard. How odd!