VTEC - new onboard crewing system

[gavin]

Last year I got on board at Peterborough and didn't see 1 member of 1st class staff until the train was nearly at Doncaster they weren't even short staffed

Hopefully, this new system, once it's settled down, will work well

 

[adrock1976]

Does anybody know if there is still First Class catering on the 06:50 Glasgow Central - London KG, or more specifically, the section of this train's journey between Glasgow Central - Edinburgh Waverley?

 

[anti-pacer]

It's sad reading this! It's exactly exactly year today since I started my 1st Class ALR, and the service offered on board VTEC trains was second to none, even between Peterborough and Wakefield.

Have things really gone that bad?

 

[Starmill]

I'm not sure it's that it's always bad, simply that it's too variable. It might be good, it should be good, but it's not very reliable and if you're spending a lot on an upgrade... This has been the case for rather a long time though!

 

[route101]

Does anybody know if there is still First Class catering on the 06:50 Glasgow Central - London KG, or more specifically, the section of this train's journey between Glasgow Central - Edinburgh Waverley?

Im not sure on the morning service . But on the return the buffet is still open after edinburgh . I want to use to this service , just wish it was a bit later as its too early for connections into central

 

[gavin]

4 services are unable to provide a full catering service this evening


14:52 Aberdeen to London Kings Cross due 22:13

Catering is reduced between Edinburgh and York with no Buffet or Standard Class trolley service available. First Class passengers will have a service of hot and cold drinks..


18:19 London Kings Cross to Newcastle due 21:25

Catering is reduced with no Food Bar or Standard Class trolley service available..


19:00 London Kings Cross to Edinburgh due 23:28

This train will now run as scheduled.
Catering is not available between Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Additional Information: We are sorry for the inconvenience this has caused you today.


20:05 London Kings Cross to Leeds due 22:23

Catering is reduced throughout as the Buffet and the Standard Class trolley service will not be available..

 

[AndrewP]

A couple of things here.

First Class Service
I have to say I have found it excellent as ever recently but am not keen on the current menu but that is a taste thing rather than a quality issue. The staff still seem as friendly and helpful as ever.

The new glasses are designed to stack and if they are smaller it does not seem by much - a dribble out of a small mixer can does not go in with ice whereas it used to. If this is to save money on wine or juice (everything else is pre-packed) its not going to be significant so I doubt this will be the reason as more could be saved by knocking a few ml of spirits.

Recycling of paper cups
Takeaway coffee cups have a plastic film on them to stop the paper being soaked through and the drink spilling. This can now be recycled but this is a recent thing and the reason why more are not being recycled is due to capacity in the recycling business but now the demand is there it will ramp up - its no different to when many councils asked people to separate their recycling and then chucked it into landfill anyway - its all about behaviour

 

[Marton]

I have been a regular user of one northbound train, which I won't identify, since BR days.

I last used it last week, and so haven't experienced the new regime, but was advised that the new crew will have the train 15 minutes before departure. With a Newark stop to manage I do wonder how that will work.

Over the years it was good with BR, Best with gNER , bad in NE days, and good with DOR EC. This is likely to be chaos.

Let's see what happens next week.

 

[All Line Rover]

Was National Express really that bad, at least initially? I recall journeys to Edinburgh where there was a moderately priced menu with dishes - e.g. cheese platters - of far greater quality (and size!) than anything Virgin Trains West Coast has managed since introducing the Very High Frequency timetable in 2007.

DOR's introduction of an arbitrary 70 minute rule placed a big black mark, in my mind, on what was otherwise a reasonable offering.

 

[amarshe]

NX weren't bad initially (i.e. when they first took over from GNER).

Shortly after they took over, the financial crisis really hit - Leman bros etc. - and their projections didn't materialise.

In the end they were really bad; some memories:

1. I filed three cases with the small claims court before they paid up for three delay repay claims; the other 10 or so required a *lot* of chasing
2. They started charging for seat reservations (£1.50 or £2.50 per seat)
3. I think they stopped taking Amex at one point
4. When the franchise was taken over, they sent an email out to all the loyalty club members advertising NX coaches, and asking them to consider travelling by coach on their next journey!

They also got rid of most of the restaurants, although that was probably coming anyway.

Overall I agree with Marton; East Coast in my experience were much better and GNER were for the most part excellent.

In the 1990s, BR InterCity were variable; some good periods followed by ok periods. Apart from the new IC225s, everything on the railways was a bit shabby in those days - I remember rain pouring through parts of the roof at Edinburgh Waverley for quite a while.

 

[Chrism20]

That's pretty much how I remember NXEC as well. Ok to start with then bang.

It getting bad wasn't a slow process, it just simply went over a cliff one morning and that was it.

I understand the logic behind what VTEC are trying to do but fear that it is doomed and will end in disaster.

Staggering starting times to suit demand in a normal business makes sound business sense, however when your business is actually moving about all the time it is not that easy.

This I think will ultimately result in no catering at all on some services during disruption because crew are trapped elsewhere.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Another minor change I've noticed:

On weekdays the sandwich/wrap options were always served from a platter and placed onto a plate, on a weekend it was pre packaged.

The advantage of the weekday system is if you wanted half the meat option and half the veggie option you could do this or indeed if you only wanted 2 rather than 4 sandwiches you could do that and save on the waste. It also feels slightly more 'premium' eating off a plate.

Now the services I was on this week have had the sandwiches and wraps pre-packed like the weekend. Others on Twitter have reported the same.

I've also noticed people on twitter complimenting the crews for doing a great job short staffed seemingly assuming it's a temporary issue rather than an intentional change.

I can see once it settles down we'll have an OK service but it'll be yet another step down in quality from what we were used to.

I see the evening meal (the chef prepared option with the proper dessert options) being the next to go. It wasn't on the 18:19 tonight or Monday a train that has often had excellent service. I can see the 'rest of day' menu become all day after breakfast meaning the chefs aren't strictly needed for any service other than breakfast.

 

[Blindtraveler]

We are already seeing catering issue s in STD as documented upthread.

 

[SaveECRewards]

This is how it's being handled on Twitter, trying to make it sound like the cutbacks are for our benefit:

@Virgin_TrainsEC what's with the staff multi-tasking this morning? Selling drinks AND checking tickets... have you made cutbacks?

This is to provide a smoother/better experience for all customers. ^SH

You know how much you sound like a @British_Airways PR guy when you claim cutbacks are an improvement! #BAinvesting4U

I am just saying we are doing this to improve the overall journey and experience for customers. ^SH

VTEC need to stop treating their customers as idiots. After trying to convince Nectar was an improvement they're now trying to claim cutting staff will improve service! Of course they'd not admit to making things worse but they could at least say the aim is to make more efficient use of crew but still offer the same level of service once the changes have settled in.

 

[anti-pacer]

Anymore recent bad experiences in VTEC's First Class?

Is alcohol still available weekdays after 12?

 

[leightonbd]

Anymore recent bad experiences in VTEC's First Class?

Is alcohol still available weekdays after 12?

No and yes, at least between Edinburgh and London. Staff have always been great.

The closest to a bad experience was being offered a breakfast without bacon, sausages and black pud on the Chieftain because of 'a problem with the fridges' (something I believe has been mentioned on the EC FC catering thread before). I had contingency arrangements in the form of a Clif bar and since there was plenty of food where I was going I wasn't too concerned.

But the next day wine was flowing on the 12.30 southbound from Edinburgh. I could have had at least five glasses (stopped at three), received sandwiches and subsequently a sausage roll (could have had Thai curry or lamb stew) and also declined crisps, cake etc.

Not wild about those pre-packed sandwiches but more because they are 'more bread less filling' than the platters, which is very much personal taste. I think it is a legitimate efficiency saving, though, making staff's job in serving much easier.

 

[MCSHF007]

Catering staff checking tickets (before supplying freebies) in 1st class has to be a good thing. Have often noted those who have inexplicably managed to sit in the wrong part of the train enjoying the 'complimentaries' before being moved on when/if the guard subsequently carried out a ticket check.

 

[Jonfun]

This is how it's being handled on Twitter, trying to make it sound like the cutbacks are for our benefit:




VTEC need to stop treating their customers as idiots. After trying to convince Nectar was an improvement they're now trying to claim cutting staff will improve service! Of course they'd not admit to making things worse but they could at least say the aim is to make more efficient use of crew but still offer the same level of service once the changes have settled in.

First Class Hosts checking tickets in First Class is perfectly normal across the network. There's nothing to suggest that that *in itself* is cutting staff numbers, there's still going to need to be a Guard (sorry, Train Manager) on to check tickets in Standard, do the doors, deal with any passenger assistance requests or emergencies on board etc - unless it used to be the Service Manager's (or whatever they were called on the East Coast before they got rid of them) responsibility to check tickets in First.

 

[Butts]

No and yes, at least between Edinburgh and London. Staff have always been great.



Not wild about those pre-packed sandwiches but more because they are 'more bread less filling' than the platters.

It's a shame they don't "borrow" the pre-packed Chicken and Bacon Wraps from VWC - they are quite substantial for an onboard offering and very tasty

 

[maire23]

First post here!
I travel a lot with VTEC between PBO-YRK/NCL and I always try to go first class if I can. This is mainly because I'm disabled and I appreciate the extra legroom. I used to travel EMT/XC LEI-NCL changing at DBY and VTEC is like a different world.
I've never had an issue with the 1st class service on VTEC- in fact I travelled on it just today and seemed like I was constantly being offered drinks. My coffee was served in a proper cup (not a paper one) and frankly I barely noticed my juice glass was plastic. The food is fine (although highly overpriced in Standard- I had the misfortune to have to travel standard last week- booked last minute- and frankly 8 quid for an egg butty, a drink, a bar of chocolate and some salted peanuts was scandalous)
To be honest I'm the kind of traveller who isn't that bothered about the free stuff- if they stopped it altogether I really wouldn't be phased, for me it's just worth the extra for the comfy seats and extra legroom.

 

[Fuzzytop]

First post here!
I travel a lot with VTEC between PBO-YRK/NCL and I always try to go first class if I can. This is mainly because I'm disabled and I appreciate the extra legroom. I used to travel EMT/XC LEI-NCL changing at DBY and VTEC is like a different world.
I've never had an issue with the 1st class service on VTEC- in fact I travelled on it just today and seemed like I was constantly being offered drinks. My coffee was served in a proper cup (not a paper one) and frankly I barely noticed my juice glass was plastic. The food is fine (although highly overpriced in Standard- I had the misfortune to have to travel standard last week- booked last minute- and frankly 8 quid for an egg butty, a drink, a bar of chocolate and some salted peanuts was scandalous)
To be honest I'm the kind of traveller who isn't that bothered about the free stuff- if they stopped it altogether I really wouldn't be phased, for me it's just worth the extra for the comfy seats and extra legroom.

Hello Mr Horne, pleasure to have you on here

Seriously I think there are some efficiency savings to be had. I think moving the sandwiches to individual packaging is a good idea - that said I was once assailed by a flying egg mayo that flew off the tray so I may be biased...

 

[SaveECRewards]

Catering staff checking tickets (before supplying freebies) in 1st class has to be a good thing. Have often noted those who have inexplicably managed to sit in the wrong part of the train enjoying the 'complimentaries' before being moved on when/if the guard subsequently carried out a ticket check.

I'd agree, but that's not what's happening. The Train Manager is still the only one that checks tickets, just now their workload is higher as they're now doing the role of the guard and the crew leader on most services.

Every time I've been travelling since the changes I've been eating before the ticket check started.

It's definitely cost cutting, but it's supposed to be done in a way that the customer shouldn't notice. Although, apart from the first full week the service levels have improved to the standard I'd expect, so they do appear to be refining the tweaking. The number of complaints on Twitter has also dropped since the first week.

 

[SaveECRewards]

First post here!
I've never had an issue with the 1st class service on VTEC- in fact I travelled on it just today and seemed like I was constantly being offered drinks. My coffee was served in a proper cup (not a paper one) and frankly I barely noticed my juice glass was plastic. .

The coffee is always served in a proper cup (it's the lounge where they've gone to paper) and on weekends the drinks are served in a plastic cup (has been since 2011). Sometimes on a weekday they'll be in a plastic cup but it's rare.

 

[xotGD]

On my service fro Leeds to KX yesterday a Virgin Revenue Protection Officer was checking the tickets. Is this a new role?

 

[cf111]

Hello Mr Horne, pleasure to have you on here

Seriously I think there are some efficiency savings to be had. I think moving the sandwiches to individual packaging is a good idea - that said I was once assailed by a flying egg mayo that flew off the tray so I may be biased...

I preferred them from the tray as you could ask for two of each ad:

 

[All Line Rover]

...it's the lounge where they've gone to paper...

If the cups are recyclable, I would call that an improvement, as it enables the wider variety of drinks available in the lounges to be carried on board.

 

[godfreycomplex]

On my service fro Leeds to KX yesterday a Virgin Revenue Protection Officer was checking the tickets. Is this a new role?

Revenue Protection Officers have been around for donkeys' years in one guise or another, their role is to roam the network fully checking all tickets and issuing various sorts of punishment for those who don't have a valid ticket. Sometimes seen on trains and sometimes at stations.

 

[SaveECRewards]

If the cups are recyclable, I would call that an improvement, as it enables the wider variety of drinks available in the lounges to be carried on board.

An improvement would be to offer both like some airline lounges do (well bmi used to do it, so I guess others do, over 7 years as a BA Gold and I realise I've never had a hot drink in one of their lounges). A china cup if you want to sit in and a paper cup if you want to take it away or prefer them. After all even if they are recyclable doesn't mean they are recycled.

 

[GW43125]

I preferred them from the tray as you could ask for two of each ad:

And when they had some left over you could ask for more... Think I had about 10 sandwiches between Edinburgh and London!

 

[GrimShady]

If I'm not using the sleeper on my journeys to London then it's VTEC every time even though it adds an extra 1hr to my Journey. The staff service is always excellent as are the FC Mallard MK4s, i'd never travel WC again due to the Pendolinos/not so great staff.

There is defiantly a reduction in teas/coffees between Edinburgh & Newcastle even if the train is busy especially heading North.

It will be a sad day when the 225 formations go!